Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Protein poisoning

Protein poisoning

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Protein poisoning (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Article provides no evidence this is a "real" medical condition separate from Protein Toxicity Lunarfantom (talk) 15:41, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

In the talk page a few rather major issues have been raised. Namely: 1. Lack of medical citations or information. This article is being treated as a medical illness yet there is no research cited, nor input from medical authorities, no a proposed cure/treatment, proposed mechanisms, or anything else that one would expect to find in a medical article. The only information provided is anecdotal.

2. It's arguably propaganda. The wording strongly implies that rabbit meat is somehow inferior and risky to consume because of its comparably high protein content, even though several animals (such as elk and deer) have far more protein/fat and are not mentioned at all, nor is there any implication that the "cause" would be through a mainly carnivorous diet, rather then a supposed "over consumption of rabbit." Hence "rabbit starvation."

3. The article is arguably copyright infringement, as someone in the talk pages argues that their work is basically being quoted here without credits of any kind.

4. This supposed condition is basically just protein toxicity. The only research of any kind I could find actually analyzing the condition was found here. And the symptoms, mechanism, etc are literally the same. To quote:

"Despite thepaucity of clinical data, it is quite likely that the symptoms of rab-bit starvation result primarily from the finite ability of the liver toup-regulate enzymes necessary for urea synthesis in the face ofincreasing dietary protein intake. Rudman et al (43) showed thatthe mean maximal rate of urea synthesis (MRUS) in normal sub-jects is 65 mg N · h21· kg body wt20.75(range: 55–76 mg N · h21·kgbody wt20.75) and that protein intakes that exceeded the MRUSresulted in hyperammonemia and hyperaminoacidemia. UsingRudman et al’s (43) data (assuming 16% N/g protein), we calcu-lated the mean maximal protein intake for an 80-kg subject to be250 g/d (range: 212–292 g/d). For a 12 552-kJ energy intake, themean maximal dietary protein intake would be 35.1% of energy(range: 29.7–40.9% of energy). Therefore, dietary protein intakesgreater than values in this range may result in hyperammonemiaand hyperaminoacidemia, which in turn likely cause some of theclinical symptoms responsible for the rabbit starvation syndromedescribed by explorers"

If this is the case, then the article should be Merged with Protein Toxicity and maybe we could make a footnote citing that over consumption of protein is another possible mechanism aside from liver failure, and note the references to hunter-gatherers who found themselves in northern areas without enough vegetation to balance their animal intake.

(This is my first time flagging a page for deletion so if I messed up in the procedure I apologize in advance).

Lunarfantom (talk) 15:41, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

• Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2020 July 21. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 16:11, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Health and fitness-related deletion discussions. Megan Barris (Lets talk📧) 16:12, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. Megan Barris (Lets talk📧) 16:12, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

• Keep My first thought was that it sounds and reads like WP:SYNTH because none of the references in the article even mention the word poisoning. I did some research and find the topic notable.
• I did find some refs elsewhere

1. BBC
2. Haaretz
3. New Daily,
4. Health Online
5. Abstract from the Journal of Archaeological Science,
6. Journal of Animal Science,
7. Journal Article The Protein Poison,

• Books

1. Medical Record - Volume 94, Issues 1-12 - Page 148, Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human
2. How to Stay Alive in the Woods,
3. The Hunter-gatherer Within: Health and the Natural Human Diet
4. Many Books

Because of the many sources available I do not think we are dealing with WP:FRINGE/PS. In the case of this article WP:NOTCLEANUP. Per WP:NEXIST, there is ample material to write an article - because this one is WP:IMPERFECT. Lightburst (talk) 17:05, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Your article listed as #7 Journal Article the Protein Poisoning actually has nothing to do with this page. It's titled "protein poisoning" for sure, but protein poisoning in the context of the page I'm proposing we delete, refers to an illness caused by over-consumption of protein rich meat.

The link you propose is "related" and therefor evidence of notability, is not about this. It's about a certain protein that was derived by chemically treating bacteria, and then injected into the veins of mammals. It is literally less related then the article on protein toxicity. (If the wikipedia "protein poisoning" page were an apple, and "protein toxicity" an orange, the book you linked would be similar to a cabbage. It looks related at a glance, but they aren't even the same field of study).

Most the other articles you reference are .com sites, which tend to be unreliable sources for medical information in general. Lunarfantom (talk) 17:41, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

There are many, many sources available - some of them are in depth. Especially in my link to books and journals. The topic is notable. Whether or not is should be WP:ATD-M will be determined, however some form of the topic should be kept and developed. Using different search terms, like rabbit starvation, etc, produces an abundance of sources. If I listed some unrelated refs above it is because I was not studying them. But just look at how many books cover rabbit starvation (I count 40). Lightburst (talk) 17:48, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Ah my apologies, earlier you said you'd concluded it wasn't fringe based on the sources so I misunderstood the intent. Diving a bit further, #3 the Journal of Animal Science actually concludes that protein poisoning doesn't exist, based on their experiment with feeding high-protein diets to pigs, while the "How Cooking Made us Human" article is a very old article, over 100 years, and rather questionable. (They were injecting suffers of syphilis with mercury in this very article, to give a sense of scientific timescale).

You raise an interesting point about the multiplicity of terms. The phrase "rabbit starvation" is part of why I flagged this, as it's rather misleading terminology with seemingly no reliable scientific backing. It's easy to find ancient literature and websites describing "rabbit starvation" but attempts to search for peer reviewed articles or any other scientific research focused upon it yield little to no results. (If you only search for the term amongst journals in casual reference, but finding it as the focus of a study is challenging at best). If we consider Protein Poisoning to be separate from Toxicity, I'd argue it's Questionable Science at best and Pseudoscience at worst.

The guidelines say "When discussing topics that reliable sources say are pseudoscientific or fringe theories, editors should be careful not to present the pseudoscientific fringe views alongside the scientific or academic consensus as though they are opposing but still equal views." so I definitely think this merits a critical review. Lunarfantom (talk) 18:07, 21 July 2020 (UTC)