Talk:Casta

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Mexican Indian on Indian

Since this was throughout Spanish America, don't you think we should like to something beyond Mexican Indian?

The word CASTA has nothing to do with "character and quality" Also your refs do not imply such things

The system of castas, or genízaros, was based on the principle that the character and quality of people varied according largely to their "birth, color, race and origin of ethnic types"

What does "character and quality" have to do with the words "race,colour,birth"? The portugueses created the word Casta to sort of the slaves they owned, the portuguese owned slaves from all different races such as Indians,africans,japanese ect, they then sorted them by age of birth, the colour of a slave was more for saleability for sex slavery which the portugueseagain where famous for, hence Casta actual orginal meaning was Race,Colour,Birth... NOT CHARACTER AND QUALITY, checked your ref and nothing implys Character and Quality.remove it92.236.96.38 (talk) 16:34, 15 October 2014 (UTC)Caplock

I don't have the original citation, but likely it referred to calidad. A person's perceived calidad could raise or lower their public perception and which racial category they were assigned or could pass for. See the discussion in Ben Vinson III: "As readily as the concepts of nación and casta were used interchangeably, so too were the designations of calidad, clase, raza, condición, and casta. Vinson, Before Mestizaje: The Frontiers of Race and Caste in Colonial Mexico. New York: Cambridge University Press 2018, 57. I hope this helps. Amuseclio (talk) 19:19, 20 August 2019 (UTC)Amuseclio

The Casta System did not exist as portrayed in this article

This article is sheer fantasy. There was never "a formal racial hierarchy" in Latin America. The Casta system is a Anglo-Saxon myth. There was no legal institution of such a system. In fact, many Spanish immigrants were the servants of rich Mestizos and Mulatos in New Spain. I'll allow for a discussion before I start removing unsourced nonsense. Negin2019 (talk) 14:36, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

I have added text with scholarly citations to the fluidity and flexibility of the racial categories. It was not a system of fixed terminology in time or place, but the labels and hierarchies of casta painting have given the impression that the categories were rigid and immutable. I think removing the duplicate descriptions of racial categories would improve the article. Most terms in the short list are linked to full articles that readers can consult. Amuseclio (talk) 22:00, 7 August 2019 (UTC)Amuseclio

Removing descriptions of racial categories altogether is warranted since they are total fiction. They were never used outside of those paintings. We certainly need more detail on the works of Gonzalbo and other Latin American authors. This article suffers from Anglo-bias and distortion. Spanish language sources are absolutely necessary here.176.85.217.174 (talk) 14:42, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Proposal: splitting off section on casta painting and creating a separate article

The section on casta painting is underdeveloped in this article. There is much more to be said, but saying it would make this article unduly long. There is a large scholarly literature on casta painting as a separate topic. Amuseclio (talk) 17:37, 7 August 2019 (UTC)Amuseclio

Call for discussion of deleted text without discussion

I do not want to engage in an editing war with multiple reverts with an unknown Wiki editor, but user 176.85.217.174 has reverted significant text without any kind of community discussion on the talk page. Since this person is an apparently unregistered Wiki editor, I cannot go to the person's talk page to discuss the person's actions, and the editor has not contacted me on mine. I agree that the notion of a fixed casta "system" has been examined by historians, and I have gone to the works of a number with citations how un-rigid the classifications were. Along with deleting text the user does not approve of, s/he also deleted images from casta paintings that show how elites conceived of persons slotted into the racial categories. These are worthwhile seeing as historical artifacts and placing them in the Wiki article does not suggest that they are true representations. Intellectual history and art history use such evidence to understand they way people (in this case elites) thought. Cultural historians have used casta paintings to understand material culture. I would like to engage in a civil community discussion here on the talk page. I am open to reworking the lengthy section on casta categories, but to have the whole section blanked is not acceptable without discussion. Amuseclio (talk) 17:38, 23 August 2019 (UTC)Amuseclio

On Espanoles

Espanoles in the caste categorization referred to Criollos. I have fixed this mistake. It did not refer to peninsulares. I have fixed this.--83.51.46.1 (talk) 18:27, 24 July 2020 (UTC)