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"In South African farms and homes, breeds that were renown for their fierceness such as the boerboel were kept or created as a deterrent to the real or imagined threat of black revolt against white privilege and property."
"In South African farms and homes, breeds that were renown for their fierceness such as the boerboel were kept or created as a deterrent to the real or imagined threat of black revolt against white privilege and property."


I've taken it on myself to remove the above mentioned paragraph as the Boerboel was never created as a deterrent specifically for black people(or a Black revolt), the Boerboel was created as a deterrent against predators and humans(of all races). A Dog can't not be racist and thus can't be created or kept to specifically target or deter one singular race. Boerboels have always been owned in large numbers by the non-white community as well.
I've taken it on myself to remove the above mentioned paragraph as the Boerboel was never created as a deterrent specifically for black people(or a Black revolt), the Boerboel was created as a deterrent against predators and humans(of all races). A Dog can't not be racist and thus can't be created or kept to specifically target or deter one singular race. Boerboels have always been owned in large numbers by the non-white community as well. [[User:Jln115|<b style="color:black">Jln115</b>]][[User talk:Jln115|<b style="color:black"> (talk)</b>]]

Revision as of 17:40, 20 November 2020

Requirements

I believe this section doesn't comply with writing guidelines. --176.199.192.165 (talk) 22:00, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Dubious - ability to kill leopards?

This dubious claim is referenced to the "1971" volume - can anyone identify which Volume Number of the encyclopedia this claim relates to, so that it might be verified? William Harristalk 09:33, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious text removed. William Harristalk 21:55, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Legislation

Hello User:Jln115, as per my message on your talk page, you claim that the SABBS is the only organisation authorised in terms of the SA Animal Improvement Act, No. 62 of 1998 (AIA) to officially register Boerboels, and that the Boerboel is declared a landrace under act 62 of 1998. Here it is here, please direct me to the paragraph(s) that states this. William Harris (talk) 08:25, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

See: https://www.gov.za/sites/default/files/gcis_document/201411/38188gen980.pdf Jln115 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:33, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, that confirms that the SABBS is registered as an "ANIMAL BREEDERS' SOCIETY" under the Act, which gives it certain rights and obligations. What about "the Boerboel is declared a landrace" under the Act? William Harris (talk) 08:40, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I found it myself: Definitions: (xxiii) ‘‘landrace’’ means a specified breed of a kind of animal indigenous to or developed in the Republic. Based on this narrow definition given in the Act, the Boerboel would be considered a landrace FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS ACT in South Africa. Whether it will be considered a landrace for the purposes of Wikipedia has yet to be decided.
Also on your talk page, please refer to the Wikipedia policy about using WP:RELIABLE sources which are WP:INDEPENDENT of the subject. Breed clubs and breeder associations are not independent of this subject. They are good for producing breed standards and the histories of their own organisations. They are not reliable for history or purported abilities of dogs. William Harris (talk) 08:47, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I find it ironic that you may edit and remove information wrt to the Boerboel as you please without providing any proof/citations and without repercussion yet you expect me to provide proof(which I have) when I correct your un-cited edits.The Boerboel is a declared landrace under act 62 0f 1998 See attached page 22: http://www.gsdfmembers.co.za/_pdf/List%20of%20Dogs%20declared%20-%20animal-improvement-act-62-1998.pdf Jln115 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:06, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Hello Jln115 (talk · contribs), the breed does not meet the generally used definition of the word landrace and such that definition should be removed. Further:
  1. the KUSA breed standard belongs in the infobox, as the infobox clearly says kennel club, not breed club
  2. the breed club information does not belong in the lead, if anywhere it belongs in the body of the article
  3. the breed club is an inappropriate source for the claims about its legal status, the link you have provided above is more suitable
I will be amending some of your additions in accordance with the, please don’t revert, if you do we will be forced to take alternative measures that may see you banned from contributing to the page. Cavalryman (talk) 09:08, 8 October 2020 (UTC).[reply]
The Kennel Union of South Africa is a registering authority: https://www.gov.za/sites/default/files/gcis_document/201710/41178gon1098.pdf and SABBS is a breeders society (which can keep a register). This is why we seek WP:INDEPENDENT sources. William Harris (talk) 09:12, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cavalryman (talk · contribs) The SABBS is not a Breed club it's a registered animal breeders society (registration Number 62/98/B-68) who are the only organisation authorised in terms of the SA Animal Improvement Act, No. 62 of 1998 (AIA) to officially register Boerboels, breeders may choose to register their Boerboels with KUSA however unless they are also registered with the SABBS they may not legally be called, sold or bred as Boerboels. Secondly the document provided clearly states that the Boerboel is a declared landrace under act 62 0f 1998, Im not going to debate whether or not the Boerboel meets your personal definition of a landrace, the fact is it is officially a declared South African landrace and thus it should be included as such on the page. Lastly I don't take kindly to be threatened, I will take this matter further if it cannot be resolved. Jln115 (talk)

Cavalryman (talk · contribs) as per act 62 of 1998: ‘‘animal breeders’ society’’ means a group of persons promoting the breeding, the recording or registration, the genetic improvement and the use of a kind of animal or an animal of a specified breed of such kind of animal, determining and applying breed standards, recommending in its sole discretion the recording or registration of an animal or a specified breed of a kind of animal bred in or imported into the Republic, and who is registered in terms of section 8(7)(a)(i); (vi) Jln115 (talk)

William Harris (talk · contribs) I stated that SABBS the only organisation that can officially register the Boerboel under act 62 0f 1998 AIA, I did not one claim its the only organisation that may register Boerboels. Boerboels registered with other organisation and not by the SABBS will not be recognised under the Act and will legally not be allowed to be marketed, sold or bred under the name "Boerboel" Jln115 (talk)

Well no, a registering authority has far more powers and responsibilities under the Act, and KUSA is a registering authority. Your last sentence is WP:OR - you will need a good reference to support it. William Harris (talk) 09:54, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

William Harris (talk · contribs) Official statement from KUSA: "The Boerboel is now controlled by the newly formed SABBS - South African Boerboel Breeders’ Society established in 2014- which has replaced all the other Clubs. According to the official website the SABBS “is the only organization authorized in terms of the S Animal Improvement Act No 62 of 1998 (AIA) to officially register the Boerboel.” The Kennel Union of SA still recognizes the Boerboels registered on its books and these Boerboel are welcome to enter and compete at any KUSA All Breeds Shows " https://www.kusa.co.za/images/Gallery/MARCH%20NL%20CBC%20for%20pdf%202.pdf Jln115 (talk)

On this matter, you have convinced me with your research. Also note "Further negotiations between the KUSA and SABBS are ongoing at this point in time." This is because KUSA as a registering authority controls the Boerboel stud book - whether these be "legal" or not. William Harris (talk) 10:17, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
On the matter of the breed standard, KUSA must take precedence in the infobox as the recognised kennel club for SA - the template belongs to WPDOGS and that is the requirement - however I think that including the SABBS standard in the Notes section of the infobox would be reasonable, given that it is a legally recognised "Animal Breeder Society". William Harris (talk) 10:22, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Boerboel Stud book is controlled by SA stud book not Kusa http://www.sastudbook.co.za/dc39/sa-stud-book/breeders'-societies/dogs/dog-breeders'-societies.html Jln115 (talk)
Ok we can do that! Jln115 (talk)
I cannot see why not - they are both describing the same dog. The only difference is that KUSA goes into greater detail, but there is the coat colour. SABBS includes black, but we do not know if they mean the entire coat or only parts of the dog, such as the muzzle. I do not regard it as being a big issue. William Harris (talk) 10:40, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It refers to the actual coat colour, there was great controversy wrt the "Black Boerboel", the "Black Boerboel" was in fact not recognised by the Registrar of Animal Improvement Act, 1998 (Act No. 62 of 1998) and subsequently the export and sale of these "Black Boerboels" were banned, this led to the SABBS apealing this ruling, after a lengthy court case the SABBS was deemed to have provided sufficient evidence including DNA samples that Black Boerboels were in fact pure Boerboels. KUSA however still does not recognise Black coated Boerboels, this is mostly down to the soured relationship between the SABBS and KUSA and not really about preservation the breed.Jln115 (talk)
The Breed standard of the SABBS and KUSA is basically identical, except for the black coat colour of course.Jln115 (talk)

Breed History

"In South African farms and homes, breeds that were renown for their fierceness such as the boerboel were kept or created as a deterrent to the real or imagined threat of black revolt against white privilege and property."

I've taken it on myself to remove the above mentioned paragraph as the Boerboel was never created as a deterrent specifically for black people(or a Black revolt), the Boerboel was created as a deterrent against predators and humans(of all races). A Dog can't not be racist and thus can't be created or kept to specifically target or deter one singular race. Boerboels have always been owned in large numbers by the non-white community as well. Jln115 (talk)

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