Talk:Little Miss Sunshine

Anecdotal Reactions

I saw this movie last week at the premier in Brentwood... without a doubt, this is the new "family-cult" movie for a long time to come. Highly recommended!!

I likewise saw this movie today and was very entertained. I would like to have had a better grasp of the relationship of the characters (the father and grandfather are apparently step parents and the uncle is the mother's brother). The end is defintely Hollywood and was a bit disappointing, but there are so many lessons to be learned in the film about how to approach daily life, I believe that the film has the depth of a meaningful Broadway play and should not be considered just a dark "National Lampoon" excursion, which it may resemble. The cast is incredibly good, even down to the uncredited role of Mary Lynn Rajskub of "24" fame, as the person who called the talent on stage. I was particularly impressed by the apparent cooperation given by the Miss America Pagent in this effort, since the film, on the surface, seemed to criticize such pagents. I gather that, over the years, the Miss America Pagent has tried to get away from the superficial attributes that make "winners" in other "beauty" contests, so, I suppose, the film helps push that image vs. the image of the Little Miss Sunshine contest. I am not sure that this theme was completely developed, however, and I am not sure what advantage the Miss America contest can gain from the film.

I would have cut the chance meeting of Frank with his graduate student x-lover as being unnecessary for the plot development.

The middle section of this article is ripped off of a syndicated news thingy. Probably this should be edited and wikified. (check out http://seattle.thewarrenreport.com/background.asp?pageID=9&catID=6 to see one example).

Is it just me, or does the girl remind you of Jules et Jim?

How is any of this relevant to the Wikipedia article? I think you want the IMDB.com boards. This isn't a place to discuss personal impressions of the movie. Moncrief 17:07, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Per Theater Average Gross

To understand the importance of per theater average gross, consider this hypothetical example.

A film makes $20,000 per theater average gross.

If it is shown at one theater for one day, you have grossed $20,000.

If it is shown at 2500 theaters for three weeks, you have grossed over a Billion Dollars. (And that's just initial domestic release. There is also foreign releases. Marketing tie-ins. Merchandising. Premium cable. DVDs. Broadcast. Etc.)

So, "Per Theater Average Gross" is a very crucial measure of a film's success.

72.82.183.16 18:36, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Please stop inserting this "trivia"

Or at least stop doing so unless you can provide a verifiable source:

• "Some audience members have expressed contentions regarding certain scenes involving Steve Carell's character, who is a homosexual. These audience members complained about how the term "fag" was used for what they considered to be cheap laughs."

WHO has expressed "contentions"? Is this notable? Is this a trend? I'm gay, and I found the use of the word "fag" to be totally appropriate considering Arkin's character. Carrell's gay character was believable and sympathetic, and I'd be hard-pressed to see how anyone but a PC-run-amok moron would object to Arkin's character uttering the word "fag" considering everything else he says. I'd love to see your source (your own brain doesn't count as a source.) Moncrief 13:52, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Besides from using the term 'fag rag', was the word even in the movie? --DrBat 12:28, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

No, I don't believe so. Which makes this (thankfully given-up-on) piece of "trivia" even more bizzare. Moncrief 15:30, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it was completely apropriate

Family tree

Could someone make a family tree of the cast using the familytree template?

Also, Dwayne is from a former marriage of Sheryl's (Richard only fathered Olive with Sheryl). There's a scene where Sheryl made a passing reference to Dwayne visiting his father in Flordia, and "Divorce" being one of the things Dwayne yelled when he was angry after discovering he was colorblind. --DrBat 12:47, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I was under the impression that he yelled out divorce because of the threat of his current parents getting divorced. He had just heard his parents arguing in the next motel room over imminent money problems the night before. JeffyP 01:11, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Again, there's a scene where Sheryl made a passing reference to Dwayne visiting his father in Flordia.--DrBat 22:54, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

How's this:

?

Edwin Hoover

Frank

Dwayne's Father

Sheryl Hoover

Richard Hoover

Dwayne

Olive Hoover

Plutor ^talk 19:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Full plot synopsis please.

There is a spoiler tag, so could somebody who has seen the movie please put in the entire summary? It doesn't fit into the "encyclopediac" category when the supposed "plot synopsis" reads like a teaser.

I don't mean to sound antagonistic, must just be the insomnia making me cranky. --TopGear 02:34, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I am surprised to see the synopsis end at not even half way through the movie. It completely leaves out everything that happens during the road trip and the end. The synopsis can easily be twice as long if it was complete. I have seen the movie, but I cannot recall enough detail to complete the synopsis, sorry. Plus I am terrible at writing a synopsis. --AlexTheMartian | Talk 15:47, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I tried fleshing it out, but all I could really do is get to the end of the dinner sequence before I lost myself. I, too, am not great with summaries. I'm really surprised that no one else has tried to finish it by now, though. I guess I could take another crack at it... Pele Merengue 21:51, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, forget it. There's no way I'm going to be able to write a summary without the film either right in front of me or freshly on my mind. Pele Merengue 21:59, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, the exact same way with me, I also have to either be currently watching it or have it freshly on my mind. I stared at the end and can not think of what happened next. The only time I was able to completely recite what happened in the movie to someone was the second I came home from watching it, and even then I screwed up in my summary and mixed up things and had to go back to parts I left out. --AlexTheMartian | Talk 00:14, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I vaguely know the events, but I can't think of how to put them together or where they take place in the film.

This stuff happens on the first day:

• They stop for breakfast. Olive orders waffles and ice cream. Richard tries to "subtly" warn Olive that ice cream makes beauty competitors fat. When Olive gets her ice cream, she offers it to anyone who will eat it. However, Frank fights fire with fire and just as subtly describes how delicious the ice cream is to Olive. Sheryl follows suit and has some as well. Olive eventually catches the drift and happily tells them to save some for her.
• Richard (the father) loses his endorsement for his nine-step program over the phone while at a stop somewhere.
• Some part of the Volkswagen breaks. Instead of fixing it, the family is forced to push the van to get it from neutral to third gear? Something like that.
• At Grandpa's request, Frank buys some pornographic magazines. While in the convenience store, he is spotted by Josh, his unrequited love.
• They briefly forget Olive and pick her up drive-by style.
• They stop at a cheap motel for the night, renting three rooms. Olive stays with Grandpa, Richard stays with Sheryl and Dwayne stays with Frank. In the middle of the night, Richard borrows a motorbike to meet up with Stan Grossman (Bryan Cranston), the man who was trying to sell Richard's idea. Bascially, Grossman tells him that it's worthless and no one will buy it. Richard rides back to the motel. The next morning, Olive tells her parents that Grandpa isn't moving.

The following happens on the second day:

• Grandpa is rushed to a hospital and pronounced dead from a heroin overdose. Everyone assumes they'll have to miss Olive's pageant, but Richard isn't willing to let her back down from her dream. Instead of filling out the paperwork needed for his father's death, Richard gets his family to help him take Grandpa's body from the hospital by way of the hospital room's window. They drive off with his corpse in the trunk.
• After the horn on the Volkswagen gets stuck, the Hoovers get pulled over by a policeman. Richard tells everyone to act normal, but he himself acts suspiciously enough that the cop searches the trunk of the van. Instead of noticing the body, the policeman assumes that Richard is worried about the pornographic magazines that Frank bought earlier in the film. He lets the van pass through.
• Olive has taken brochures from the hospital and is testing Frank and Dwayne to see if they are color blind. (The test in the brochure is much like the one seen in the Wikipedia article for color blindness). Dwayne can't see the number. Frank explains that he might be color blind. Dwayne begins to show signs of anxiousness. When Frank tells him that this means he won't be able to fly planes, Dwayne has an emotional breakdown and starts beating at the van. Richard pulls over and Dwayne runs out of the Volkswagen and off the side of the road; screaming, crying and cursing; breaking his vow of silence. He criticizes his family harshly and tells them to leave him. Eventually, with Olive comforting him, he apologizes and the road trip continues.
• They finally pull into whatever building the competition is being held. They arrive slightly late and are almost disqualified for entry. However, Olive is allowed to enter.
• Dwayne and Frank are both disturbed by the dozens of little girls dolled up like models and step outside together. They have a conversation.

And, the pageant:

• The first half of the pageant. All of the girls are obviously extremely well-rehearsed as they walk down the catwalk for the swimsuit portion of the show. Olive stands out like a sore thumb: she's not extremely skinny or made-up like the other contestants and she is unsure how to walk on stage. Richard begins to worry.
• Between the first half and second, Richard, Dwayne and Frank all try and get Olive not to enter the second half of the competition. They want to protect her from embarassment. Sheryl, however, is convinced that she needs to go through with her dream and it's not the right of anyone to take it away from her.
• The second half of the pageant. Olive's routine starts simply. Dressed in a modest, Annie Hall-esque outfit, she begins with a simple dance. The song, however, that Grandpa picked out for her is "Superfreak" by Rick James. Olive's dance becomes increasingly bizarre and vaguely risque as she tears away at her outfit to reveal a more flexible red, black and gold costume underneath. The judges and audience are all at first horrified and they even try to force Olive offstage. Instead of pulling her daughter offstage, however, Richard joins Olive in her unique dance. Frank, Dwayne and Sheryl all join her as well.
• The family is arrested. They are released provided that they never enter a beauty pageant in California again. They agree and drive off into the sunset.

So I guess the information above just needs to be more precise. For instance, what is the part that breaks on the van? In what order does all of the first day stuff take place (the magazines, forgetting Olive, Richard losing his deal, etc). What information can be left out? It just needs to be better organized, which is hard to do when you've only seen the movie once. Pele Merengue 11:42, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

This is ridiculous. Having a complete synopsis of the plot is not encyclopedic at all. This needs to be reduced to a brief summary of the situations that lead up to plot development, not a catalog of every event in the film. Stihdjia 22:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Existentialism in l.m.s.

Does anyone want to put in a summary of the many references to existential philosophy in the movie? This is a theme that is obvious from the very opening of the movie with Dwayne's poster of Nietzsche, and continues as each character's choices direct and shape the events of the movie. Further, Uncle Frank's choice to attempt suicide echoes Albert Camus' assertion that whether or not to commit suicide is the only great existential or philosophical question. On the pier Dwayne comes to the conclusion that one's choices make him responsible for what happens to him regardless of external or uncontrollable events, which is a concept created by Sartre.

Notable L.M.S. Quotes

• "I won! I won! I won! I won! I won! I won! I won! I won! I won!"
  -Olive

• "Where's Olive?"
  -Dwayne (& Frank)

Trivia

Does this page really need so much Trivia?! Half the page is bloody trivia!

It's more annoying that half of the pages is completely pointless trivia than anything trivia itself being overdone. Robixsmash 19:39, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Family Tree incorrect?

I believe that the family tree in the article is incorrect. It graphically shows "Uncle Frank" as being the uncle of Sheryl.

I saw LMS, twice. Frank is Sheryl's brother, not her uncle. Frank is the uncle of Dwayne and Olive.

Using customary genealogical methods, a higher positioning (or in the case of a horizontal tree, a more left-hand-side postioning) of person A is indicative of person A being in a generation that is older than person B.

We need to change the Family Tree graphic.

71.168.134.196 19:41, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I created the family tree, and I know that Frank is Sheryl's brother, not uncle. I'm sorry if it looks unclear, but I have that box where it is according to the template example of an aunt/uncle: see example template_talk:familytree. I don't know if there's enough room to put it next to Sheryl because of where Dwayne's father is, and I didn't want to have boxes for Sheryl and Frank's parents because they were not part of the movie...suggestions? Plath81 22:57, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I moved Uncle Frank to Sheryl's level..hope it looks ok. Plath81 23:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Richard is not Dwayne's father? I just watched the movie an hour ago and I did not realize that they are not fath/son. Then again, I missed the first few minutes, so could someone please confirm this for me?

Driving without the clutch

Driving without the clutch is quite an accomplishment, but possible with a manual gear. The car is accelerated by incline or pushing in neutral, and at the right speed, gear is shifted to third which will start the engine (ignition key needs to be activated). Shifting up and down is done over neutral gear during which time engine rotations need to be adjusted to the new gear,- this needs a lot of experience and mistakes will soon wear down the gear system.Ekem 14:34, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I moved the talk page to the film's article, now removing the redirect to Talk:Little Miss Sunshine (film). Schi 21:09, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Reverted. Blackjack48 20:50, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Trivia. Again.

does it really need to say that the film was not shot in sequence? films are rarely shot in sequence, theres nothing special about it. i think it should be removed.

It says that it was shot in sequence. Which is special, because films are rarely shot in sequence. Pele Merengue 13:01, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

VW van

We need mor info on the VW van possibily a page do you agree?