Talk:Flyleaf (band)

Neutrality

This article is about a band. As such, arguments regarding the religious faith of the members doesn't belong in the article if it does not contribute directly to the information in the article. Nowhere in the current article does the religion of the band members affect the content. Please stop changing the genre listed for this band. jparenti 18:34, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Alternative Rock

They don't strike me as Alternative Metal, more Alternative Rock.

--> They are too heavy top be classified as Alternative Rock, their style fits in far better with Alternative metal.

I don't see them as Post-Hardcore, either. AllAroundMe 23:33, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

--> The vocal style of Flyleaf fits in perfectly with Post-Hardcore. As the vocal style is the defining feature of post-hardcore, that is enough to place them in that genre.

I looked through some other band pages that are similar to Flyleaf's music/vocals - like Trapt and Chevelle. They aren't listed as Post-Hardcore, I don't think they are. and so I don't think Flyleaf should be, either. Or apparently those other bands need to be listed as it, then? I dunno. I still wouldn't label them as that. AllAroundMe 03:59, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

--> I would have said Flyleaf's vocal style was closer to Fightstar or Fireflight than Chevelle or Trapt. I'll remove Post-Hardcore from the genres anyhow.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.181.68.91 (talk • contribs).

Again, see the post at the bottom of this page. Don't change the genre unless you have a source to back it up. Personal opinions and comparing them to other bands are original research and don't belong in an encyclopedia. --Chuck Sirloin 12:55, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Mmm, alas, Post-Hardcore was removed for a reason. :) AllAroundMe 16:04, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Other Bands

Please try to limit the other bands you mention on the page, remember this is about Flyleaf, that's the reason I removed a couple, also to make it look neater, hope no one minds.

Holy Made Up Statistic Batman

From the article "Probably 50% of the people who first hear one of Flyleaf's mainstream songs don't know that they are Christian." I have no idea who added it, but that definitely doesn't belong in here and as such I'm removing it.

This is not a forum

A discussion Page is not a forum, please don't discuss your thoughts, discuss additions, deletions, and alterations here.

disambiguous needed

a flyleaf is: a blank leaf in the front or the back of a book.

Christian?

I love this band. I've seen them in concert twice now, and were one of the best each time. I'm just confused about something. Why are they considered Christian-based? Have they said this? It's just not the impression I get. DaftPenguu 08:36, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Their song, "All Around Me" was released by the band on the christian radio circut. Also many of their songs have symbolic references to Jesus. Such as in the song "So I thought", where the lyrics actually say "And all these twisted thoughts I see, Jesus there inbetween". Other songs, such as "Red Sam", also have some references to the religion, ex: "And I worship, And I worship, And I worship, And I worship. You are the truth. Outscreaming these lies, you are the truth. Saving my life". In the song "Cassie", there are also the lyrics "Do you believe in God? written on the bullet." Lindsey8417 02:22, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Many bands have symbolic references to Christianity. Are they all Christian bands? No. They are not a Christian band. jparenti 11:53, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

The noun

Any chance of a disambig for the actual noun, like in a book? --maru (talk) contribs 04:24, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, they are Christian.

It is obvious that they are a Christian band. Listen to their lyrics! They also claim to be a Christian band. The hit "I'm So Sick" isn't a secular song. "I'm So Sick" has haunting and creepy lyrics that portray an individual who has a viral disease of self and wants to break free from earthly passions. "Sorrow" begins as a mid-tempo rock piece that contains glimpses of depression, but shows a yearning for spiritual guidance as Lacey Mosley utters the words "Sorrow lasts through this night and I'll take this piece of You, and hold for all eternity; for just one second I felt whole... as You flew right through me." The song "All Around Me" speaks about desiring to have a stronger relationship with the Father, while the Evanescence feel of "Fully Alive" is about a young girl who yearns to escape the abuse of her family by finding comfort in the arms of a loving God. The beautiful ballad "There For You" is all about finding trust and strength in a true friend who will never let one down despite the selfishness of their past mistakes. Arguably the best song on the album lyrically is "Perfect," which is blatant in proclaiming "Perfect in weakness, I'm only perfect in just Your strength alone."

So now try and say that they aren't a Christian band.

That's fine, but if you know so much about groups in the genre, you should know that Evanescence is commonly mistaken for Christian music but clearly say that they're not, but I guess that really doesn't change what they are. Anyhow, what's with the pop-punk/hard rock tag? They're pretty different and somebody should put one or the other. I'm not a fan of this group, but my younger sister listens to them and they might sound like this: Melodic hardcore

Rabid coathangers eat da world 11:24, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I know this.

That's weird 'cause most of those mentions are very minor. The song that said "Do you believe in God? written on the bullet." was more of a reference to Columbine than Christianity. What's also strange is that other bands have larger mention than Flyleaf's stuff, like Panic! At the Disco. They have a constant mention of God in their tracklistings, yet they're not considered Christian. System of a Down has some mentions, but they're not Christian. In fact there's lots of bands like that...

The Wretched

True, but they make quite a few references to God. Its not just one or two here or there. To me it seems like there is at least one refrence to God in each of thier songs.

Just the mention of God does not mean that a band is Christian, yes, but Flyleaf doesn't just mention God, they praise Him. In the song "Cassie", they say " say yes to pull the trigger". At the end of the song, she says "And I will pull the trigger", saying clearly that she believes in God. In the song "Red Sam", she says, "You are the Truth, out screaming these lies, You are the Truth, saving my life", then later she says "And I worship, and I worship, and I worship, and I worship". And plus, the mentions of God are NOT "minor". They are not ashamed of their faith in God.

Well, to put it this way, if the members of Flyleaf are Christians, they just incorporate a little bit of their beliefs into their songs, but I wouldn't just refer to them as a Christian band

This debate seems kind of illogical, given that on the article for Moseley, it is stated that she is an outspoken Atheist and it notes that she is the vocalist for an Alternative Rock band. Someone needs to make up their mind because this confusion is ridiculous. 71.156.94.2 18:55, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

"Throughout her earlier years, she was an outspoken atheist. [...] After her grandmother forced her to go to church, Mosley experienced something supernatural that brought her to God. "My life totally changed after that." That pretty clearly states that she is currently a Christian, I believe you may have misunderstood the first sentence. --64.199.239.197 01:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC) Min

I've silently watched this article for a while now, and there seems to be no end to the debate on whether or not they are a "Christian band" which has raged on this page since the release of their recent album. Therefore, unless we have verifiable and reliable sources saying that they are a Christian band (perferably from the horse's mouth), the classification should either be removed or rephrased accordingly. We are, after all, a tertiary source and are not a hub for unreliable, original views and research. -- Joe Beaudoin Jr. ^{Think out loud — WP:PORN BIO?} 01:19, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

There's this saying about ducks you've probably heard; if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and adores breadcrumbs like a duck, Vegas money says it's a duck. In this case we have a band that is played on CCM radio, that is sold in Christian stores, and that writes and performs music with clear religious content. Additionally, members of the band openly profess to be Christian. It's not the place of the "horse's mouth" to argue their demographic realities -- Celine Dion can say she's heavy metal all she wants, but if they're playing her on soft rock and adult contemporary stations, then that is her demographic. I appreciate your efforts at pointing out a perceived argumentum ad ignorantiam, but the band's standing as a CCM act is well established. --64.199.239.197 00:42, 22 July 2006 (UTC) Min

If that's the case, then why the fuss? Cite it and the the problem will be solved (or it'll solve itself). -- Joe Beaudoin Jr. ^{Think out loud — WP:PORN BIO?} 04:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

They are a Christian Band. Ask them yourselves next time they tour near you. IronCrow 03:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Read articles on them. Lacey clearly states that her faith saved her life, and most of the record reflects that. Yeah.

FLyleaf stated in an interview that they ARE a Christian band. My sister and I had this same argument before ... She finally came to me one night and said, "You were right; they are Christians. They said so in one of their interviews." Then she showed it to me. Mosely said that they're often asked whether or not they're Christian, to which she responded, "And yeah, we are all Christians. And what you believe in really comes out in your music." With those sentences she admitted her Faith, and called the band "Christian," as well as stating the lyrics have very intentional Christian themes (even if sometimes coated with ambiguity). The whole idea of many of their songs, she went on, was about pain and suffering and making a good situation out of something bad.

• Maybe there's no doubt they're a Christian band meaning that all of the band members are Christian, but even with the many references listed here I don't believe they ought to be called a "Christian Rock" band. If you read the lyrics there is not one mention of Christ and only a few mentions of a God. Overall Flyleaf's music is very secular. eLeigh33 22:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

You are so wrong. God and Christ are basically the same person. There music is not very secular. In an interview with somebody, I can't remember who, Lacey said that "all our songs points to God in some way, form, or fasion". The song don't have to mention God's name. She could be talking to God. They even call themselves a "Christian" band. If you would pay attention to what they are trying to say, it's obvious that all of the songs point to God.

I really honestly don't see why this is still be debated. Here's a quote from Lacey, found on Flyleafonline.com -

"Lacey: "We all share the same faith. And so when we deal with the whole 'Christian band thing', we kind of think about something POD says, like, 'If you're a Christian, it affects everything in your life. So if you're a plumber, does that make you a Christian plumber?' I don't know the answer. We're a band, it's part of who we are, so it comes out in our music, and it's the fuel for what we do. And finding faith saved my life. So I'm not ashamed of it at all. And most of our album reflects that."

If anyone can find a video interview of them saying they are a christian band i want to see it. I would say they arn't till then because of the reasons already stated. And i'm sure as hell going to blow the living hell out of my copy of their cd and stop listening to their music all together if they are. (thank you who ever edited the page but you forgot genre)

I guess the fact that they have songs saying things like 'Jesus there in between' and 'I worship, I worship' wasn't clear enough? Lol. Look them up, look up interviews with them on YouTube..Lacey clearly states her faith being the reason she's alive, and that the album reflects that (like the quote I posted...), among other things. Now, they are Christians in a band..but, if you want to call them a Christian band, feel free. I'm pretty sure they don't give a crap about a label like that so much as the meanings in their songs.

-- (Different poster to above) Right. Talking/Singing about God =/= Christian Band. Christian musicians =/= Christian Band. "Christian Band" has all sorts of connotations to non-Christians, it comes over like they are going to start preaching, like you aren't invited. IMO it's better to leave it ambiguous, partially because the band choose to make it that way, and partially because the label is a major turn-off for a lot of people. Nazdakka 13:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll have to look up the lyrics because i dont think i've ever heard those two words used. and as long as they dont go on and on about it they should never ever be called a christian(ack i typed it)/white metal band. i'll also have to check out the stuff on youtube, no idea why it wouldnt be on tbe on the official site.

Yeah Flyleaf could be referred to as ambiguous, but at the same time, they show talent in their writings. Nothing is so great or original about a band just coming out saying "JESUS LOVES YOU" all the time, you know? lol.

Or how about going straight to the horse's mouth? Lacey has said this "I wouldn't call it positive as much as much you know; I would say Christian because a lot of people consider our music hopeful and intense." source AllAroundMe 22:18, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Most, ok, almost all of their songs mention God and mean to present God/Jesus/Christianity in a positive light. It's funny how people will always say a band isn't a Christian band even though they mention God alot, when most of them pretty much are. Also, just because a band doesn't say "Jesus Loves You" doesn't means it's not a Christian band. To be exact, only a Praise and Worship band does that (Jars of Clay, Rock and Roll Worship Circus, anyone?). Flyleaf has more mentions of God than a band like Underoath, which is a Christian band (the members have made that clear). Other bands like As I Lay Dying, Project 86, and Kids in the Way, are all Christian bands and have alot less references to God/Jesus than Flyleaf. There's not a single band that mentions God/Jesus this much that isn't a Christian band. And don't say Creed, King's X, or U2, haha. Those are incredibly bad examples. Creed never tried to be a Christian band, they were at one point pushed by their vocalist, sure, but they weren't. King's X... Do I have to say why? U2, nah, they just do great music, and it's clear only of few of there songs are faith-based. Rock music with inspiration by the Christianity of the writer or singer is Christian Rock. It does not have to be evangelical.IronCrow 01:35, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Does it really matter if they are Christian or not?? If you like the music, see them in concert or buy their cd's what does it matter. I believe in GOD, but I do not like to be labled. Just enjoy the music and the message. Live and let live. rabbitears

Yep I agree with both of you, it's pretty ridiculous with the labels, but generally, just calling them hard rock/alt metal works, I guess. And I have to laugh at the Creed comment XD and along the lines of Scott's sex tape. AllAroundMe 08:52, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

In an interview on YouTube, Flyleaf says that they are all Christians and that you cannot separate your life from your faith.

Discog

Okay, isn't every band supposed to have at least a Discography list? I know we have the link to the site, but I was under the impression that bands need a discography...

The Wretched

Who wrote this?

I'm reading this article, and it doesn't seem objective to me. It seems like it tries to incite excitment and hype, kinda like the bio you would find on a band website or MySpace account, or in the insert of a CD. I don't know, I haven't read the full article, but the first few sections seem like this to me. Any thoughts? Am I crazy?

Punk?

How is this a punk band? I think this should go into the category of alt metal, if such a category exists. Gopherbassist 02:57, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Dude... this is a wiki. If you can make it more objective, please go ahead.Stefan McKinley 10:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Relevant External Link Addition

From Wikipedia guidelines on what external links should include: "3. Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues, amount of detail (such as professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts, or online textbooks) or other reasons. 4. Sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article, such as reviews and interviews."

FlyleafOnline is a website that contains large amounts of information that is not found in this article or on the band's official website. A summary of the additional factual information that can be found there: Many written and recorded interviews, reviews, and articles (some of which are quoted in this wikipedia article); historical band accounts from family members; a comprehensive discography; equipment setup diagrams; official lyrics to non-album songs; a properly labeled and categorized photo gallery of nearly 5,000 images; band-quoted song meanings; various other facts and figures about such things as chart history, video shoots, producers, recording studios, record label information, band member facts, etc.

Any comments or suggestions as to why it shouldn't be put in the external links? Snake308 03:19, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Vocoder use?

My only exposure to Flyleaf has been through secular radio airplay; both singles I've heard so far have vocals that sound heavily processed, perhaps with a vocoder. Is there any merit to this observation? (To be on topic, if there is such, it'd be worthwhile to add this info to the article...) Student Driver 05:24, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Cassie

Are you sure the song is about Cassie Bernall? She died from murder,the song sounds more like suicide.

The song is about Cassie Bernall, not to mention Lacey says all the time when describing the song it was about Cassie Bernall. Say yes to pull the trigger, she said yes, thus the trigger was pulled.

The idea behind the song is that Cassie controlled whether she lived or dies; by proclaiming a belief in God, she was essentially "pulling the trigger". And as a side note, no, the event in the song did not occur as descibed. Jparenti 08:43, 8 September 2007 (UTC)jparenti

Really, though, that wasn't in her control. I mean the shooter could have easily murdered her, regardless of her answer. The song is about standing up for what you believe in, Lacey said something along the lines of "What if you thought you could say no and live, but he still shoots you? You'll have to answer to God, if there is one." It's really a test of faith and if you really believe in what you profess you do. ^^ AllAroundMe 18:08, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Authorities?

the start says they changed their name from passerby to flyleaf from something to do with the authorities. What? or by authorities do they actually mean copyright issues, that there was already a band with that name? Cantras 23:22, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

The song Cassie is about Cassie Bernall, but all evidence seems to point at that that exchange of conversation didn't take place, maybe someone made it up to make it feel better or something. Someone who was sitting next to her said her last words were "Dear God, dear God! Why is this happening? I just want to go home." Even her mother wrote a book called She Said Yes: The Unlikely Martyrdom of Cassie Bernall basically born on rumors of what she said. But many witnesses claim she said nothing of the sort.

The bottom-line-meaning of the song is what's important here. and there was already a band named Passerby, yup.

Fair use rationale for Image:Flyleaf-Flyleaf.jpg

Image:Flyleaf-Flyleaf.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 09:34, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Flyleaf i'm so sick.jpg

Image:Flyleaf i'm so sick.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 09:34, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Flyleaf do you hear what i hear.jpg

Image:Flyleaf do you hear what i hear.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 09:34, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Lacey Mosley redirect

Why does Lacey Mosley redirect to this page? As an individual artist of the band, shouldn't she have her own page? Sameer and James have their own pages, though Pat and Jared do not. However, their names aren't links to this page [the links on the article's page itself]. But, when I click on Lacey, it's the same page: Flyleaf.

Why?

Because what was previously on her page was the same thing that was on the main Flyleaf article, just maybe a few more words. No worries, I'm working on getting it started and whomever can fix it up..because it'll be my first page, full of errors, I'm certain hehe. Should Pat and Jared have their own articles? I'm not sure, but I think they might deserve them. AllAroundMe 02:35, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I certainly think they should. We shouldn't just have some of the band members with their own pages. If one does, they all should. It takes every member of that band to make the music, so they deserve it. 24.213.101.206 17:58, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I agree as well, but I wasn't sure. I know some member pages for certain bands were deleted due to information that wasn't already featured in the main article or whatever (like Lacey's), so I'll try and pull some things up for their articles, too. AllAroundMe 19:30, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, just because one or more members of a band have their own article does not mean that they all should. If there are not enough sources of information on members, then their articles are very short (like Sameer's and James' are now). Really, they should be part of this article until they merit their own. A section on 'band members' would suffice to have a paragraph or two on each without need a separate article. Just my opinion though. --Chuck Sirloin 16:53, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Genre Argument

One the most common arguments about any band is what genre they fit into. Ask 100 different people, fans or not, and you will likely get at least 50 different answers. SO, stop arguing about it and changing it back and forth. The only genres that should be listed are ones for which there is a direct source which states "this band is (genre)". Any other genre changes should be reverted. --Chuck Sirloin 13:59, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I know this will likely start a sh*t-storm, but I changed the genres to agree with a source that I found. Feel free to change the genres IF you can find a better source such as an interview or review, but NOT one from a fansite. --Chuck Sirloin 18:33, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Stop Changing Genres

If whoever keeps changing genres reads this page. Stop now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.181.68.91 (talk) 06:34:29, August 19, 2007 (UTC)

If whoever left this comment reads this section: Read the article. Read the Talk page thoroughly. And if you have a useful contribution, add it. jparenti —Preceding comment was added at 08:39, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Why erase Christian

They are a Christian band, quit changing it to suit your agenda. The truth is the truth. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.104.22.182 (talk) 18:36, August 20, 2007 (UTC)

-->Because "Christian" isn't a musical genre. You could possibly argue to add the genre "Christian Metal" but you would need evidence. It seems we are now only accepting genres with evidence. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.181.253.160 (talk) 10:41, August 23, 2007 (UTC)

--> "Christian" and "Gospel" are considered genres. But, I wasn't listing Christian as a genre, but an adjective of the band, besides Christian is used all the time to show its a form of an established genre. An example: Mary Mary is referred to as a Christian R&B group. Christian is either an adjective of the group: Christian "R&B" group or could be considered the genre "Christian R&B". It is proper to also to say that Mary Mary makes "Christian R&B" music. Besides "Christian Metal" is a genre, "Christian R&B" is a genre, "Christian Hardcore" is a genre and "Christian Alternative Metal" is a genre. And, if "Christian Alternative Metal" isn't an official genre 'yet', then Christian can at least be used to describe a band and not part of the genre.

Either way its valid right where it is, or at least should be a in a sentence after the "Alternative Metal" genre sentence like: 'They are a Christian band.'

Also, new genres are being created all the time. There is no organization in charege of making genres. You have a weak argument. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.22.182 (talk) 16:27, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

--> I think its fine how it is. You were right, it did need christian written in the article before Alternative Metal, but I doubt that it needs to be added under genres in the band profile side thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.181.253.160 (talk) 07:52, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

How about this

They are 5 christian people who make great music influence here and there. And they got some amazing lyrics. Can we end the genre dispute now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.4.65.199 (talk) 12:30, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree. It's stupid to argue religious dogma over a band that so many people on here obviously enjoy. Stop the constant edits proclaiming Flyleaf a Christan band. And to all you Christians: It's not a mortal sin to enjoy listening to a band that isn't labeled "Christian" in bold letters. Get over it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jparenti (talk • contribs) 08:41, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

"We all share the same faith. And so when we deal with the whole 'Christian band thing', we kind of think about something POD says, like, 'If you're a Christian, it affects everything in your life. So if you're a plumber, does that make you a Christian plumber?' I don't know the answer. We're a band, it's part of who we are, so it comes out in our music, and it's the fuel for what we do. And finding faith saved my life. So I'm not ashamed of it at all. And most of our album reflects that." Lacey Mosley.

Does anybody actually read the discussion page before they edit?? She says herself it's an undecided issue. Leave the "Christian band" argument alone already!! jparenti 11:54, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Lacey said this - " I would say Christian because a lot of people consider our music hopeful and intense." article AllAroundMe 06:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Flyleaf's Cassie

Many people believe Flyleaf wrote the song Cassie referencing Cassie Bernall of Columbine. However, according to a friend of mine who has spoken in person with Lacey Mosley (Flyleaf's lead singer) this is not the case. According to his conversation with her, she wrote that song referencing a girl who tried to kill herself by dousing herself in gasoline and lighting herself on fire. But at some point, she changed her mind and did not want to die, and began desperately praying, saying "don't let me die". As to whether or not the song was written about this girl, I believe really only Lacey can answer that question. As to whether the girl actually set herself on fire and lived, i think it depends on personal belief whether you believe it happened (unless some of you know her.) Either way, People should not have to experience such conflict that would lead them to suicide, and Cassie was killed in cold blood. I think both that nameless girl and Cassie Bernall should be kept in prayer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kalashnikova74 (talk • contribs) 15:55, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Your friend got it mixed up a little bit, the Flyleaf song "Tina" is about the girl who attempted suicide. "Cassie" was indeed written about the Columbine shootings. AllAroundMe 22:49, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I have their album but "Tina" isn't on it. Where can I find this song? Is there a site where I can listen to it or see a video? I look up videos from flyleaf a lot but I don't recall seeing one for this song. Kalashnikova74 15:30, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if it's being sold anywhere anymore but if you look it up on YouTube you can hear it. (and on FlyleafOnline when the site is back up) AllAroundMe 21:34, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Agenda

This article, like all of Wikipedia's entries, is intended to be based on facts, not made-up ideas. I'm referring to the constant back and forth bickering over the Christian/Not Christian argument. Let it be made perfectly clear: All information must be cited. If you do not have a definitive source, stop changing the genre. Cite it or leave it out. This is an encyclopedia, not an Internet based pulpit for you to shout religious beliefs as loudly as possible at those who are genuinely trying to find information. What you think, feel, or heard from your preacher and Aunt Myrtle is not a valid source. This isn't a forum for religious agenda. jparenti 20:18, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Not that I want to get involved in the edit war here, and hopefully I'm not being violating WP:DICK but both sides appear to be very biased, you want no mention of Christian for genre others do. But although you are correct in that WP wishes to be an encyclopedia, not everything needs cited (Wikipedia:When to cite). When I look at band pages, most I come across have no citation for their listed genre and it really only becomes a point of contention when one attempts to label a band as Christian. I wish there were a single word genre for 'we are Christians in our private lives but do not feel a need to label our music as such' but there is not. I think people need to calm down a bit here, it is just a label, it has nothing to do with the music and weather or not a person likes it (unless a person bases their musical tastes on personal beliefs held by band members). Flyleaf as it seams to me claim to all be Christian, their music/lyrics have pro-religious overtones, and they have been sold by a Christian label. All of these things added together make it reasonable to list them as Christian metal(or whatever), for me it is the fact that they were sold in a Christian market that puts it over the edge. If a band chooses to sell as Christian by Christians for Christians, then they have placed themselves in a Christian genre and the argument should be over. --65.27.208.196 03:39, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

In fact SRE Recordings is part of INO Records which lists Flyleaf as one of their artists still [1] and they are a Christian label with a desire to deal with Christian bands [2] everything I can find about Flyleaf indicates they are a Christian group of people (which I don't think is up for debate) and they associate themselves with Christian labels and by doing so make themselves a 'Christian band'. More than just their associations, is their lyrics, yes many bands do have religious imagery in the lyrics, flyleaf has very specific religious references:

• "And all these twisted thoughts I see, Jesus there in between" [3]
• "And I worship" [4]
• The song "All Around Me" is all about God [5]
• The song "Cassie" is about someone voicing their belief in God leading to their death and it ends with the singer claiming they would voice their belief in God as well. "I will pull the trigger" [6] --65.27.208.196 05:01, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Just a note, genre disputes do not only come up in a Christian/non-Christian setting. Some artist/band pages even have a 'disputed genre' section. Also, your examples (the list) are original research, lyrics are inherently ambiguous at the very least. That does not mean I don't want to label them Christian, I think there is plenty verification for that. But I don't really care, I just like to hear a girl scream. -- Pepve 09:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Find me a citation. Once again, this is all being based on what the lyrics "sound like" to an individual. It's not important what we think. What's important is what we know for sure. And we know for sure that Flyleaf is not classified as a Christian band in any source cited in this article. I'll admit, it rankles me as a non-Christian to have the Christian label shoved down my throat when I say I like this band. But I'm trying very hard to support my position without becoming fanatic. I think everyone can agree that no source cited in this article mentions Flyleaf as a Christian band. QED. jparenti 18:32, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

A subphrase was added today stating that they are Christians (but not labeling them as a Christian band). With that a source was added which completely backs up the statement. I just like to note that this is a good direction we're apparently moving in. And off topic: I — as a non-Christian, as atheist as one can be, denying anything remotely supernatural — am not rankled by liking a Christian band. In the same way that I can enjoy the majesty of a baroque church. -- Pepve 13:00, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I removed the link, for two reasons. One, the information was in the wrong place in the article. Whether or not they are Christians is irrelevant to the genre, and it was located right there in the first sentence. Two, the site is not a source reliable enough to warrant changing this article. (The 700 Club? Come on. How about a REAL source?) jparenti —Preceding comment was added at 08:36, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I disagree, for two reasons. One, if something is in the wrong place it should not be removed, it should be moved to the right place. (Even though I think it wasn't in the wrong place, it didn't state anything about their genre, it stated something about their beliefs, very clearly.) Two, the source is plenty reliable. It is a clear piece with quotes by Lacey Mosley about their beliefs. (Also, The 700 Club has nothing to do with the cited article, right?) I'd appreciate it if you could re-add the material. -- Pepve 14:06, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

First, to Pepve: Sorry about removing the post from this page. I was actually trying to add something, and I think I screwed up when I saved it. Oops. Second, the link I removed was to a heavily biased site that is not affiliated with the band. The views contained there cannot be trusted as reputable. Therefore, I will not re-add the material. Also, the information doesn't solve the genre problem. I'm actually working on a solution now that I hope will be satisfying to everyone. Stand by. Jparenti 05:48, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

There. Check the article and see if the new section helps. I sincerely hope that solves the problem that's been causing so much bad sentiment. Jparenti 06:09, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

It looks good to me, I'm glad with your solution. A small note though, it's a bit much on the quotation. But that's for the future. -- Pepve 10:38, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I figured that I could start it, and anyone else can add on. Personally, I don't think it needs more of a mention than that. But any more information on the subject has a nice cozy home now. Hopefully there won't be any more disagreements. And to whoever added the pic, bravo! The article really needed it. Jparenti 04:58, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the band themselves full claim to be a christian band, the lyrics and themes of the songs point towards it. I think that the "Christian" needs to be re-added in front of the "Alternative metal" in the opening sentance of the article.Tomozaurus —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.180.176.39 (talk) 12:16, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Rerelease information added to article

Added new rerelease to discography section. I figured it was relevant, since the new version of the album is SLIGHTLY different, what with the acoustic tracks and all. I linked it back to the album article, since that article already mentions it. If it looks wrong let me know. Jparenti 10:45, 1 November 2007 (UTC)