User talk:BilCat

Wikimedia Foundation

This is a Wikipedia user page. If you find this page on any site other than Wikipedia, you are viewing a mirror site. Be aware that the page may be outdated, and that the user this page belongs to has no personal affiliation with any site other than Wikipedia itself. The original page is located at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User talk:BilCat.

NOTE: I will no longer be fighting one-man, long-term campaigns against vandalism, ignorance, stupidity, corporate interests, anti-corporrate interests, anti-government intersts, nationalistic pride, anti-Western bias, anti-American language bias, inaccuracy, falsehoods, and just plain contentious interpretations. I will remove/tag such garbage on the first sight, ask for help on the second occurance, and perhaps even ask for admin intervention after that. But without support - especially admin support - I will not try to fix Wikipedia's damaged reputation as being a haven for mis-information and vandals on my own - it's not worth the strees. I'm sorry it has come to this, but we all have to recognize our limits, and this is mine.

NOTE: If you're here because an IP user left a message somewhere attributed to me, or has been reverting my edits wholesale, be aware that such poop was laid by a Wiki-stalker/troll. And since I can't feed the trolls, I won't be responding to your messages about its activities. Sorry if the troll has caused you problems, but rules are rules!

NOTE: Most comments will be archived about once a month. Critical comments are welcome, but those containing highly-offensive or profane material will be deleted immediately, and the overall content ignored.

NO BOTS ALLOWED!! You'll have post here yourself!

Also, talk to me like a normal person, and don't just quote Wiki guidelines to me - I'm NOT a newbie . (Policies are different). I consider it rude, and will likely just delete your comments, and ignore the point, as guidleines can be ignored. If you do it anyway, and turn out to be wrong, an apology would be the considerate thing to make.

If you want me to take your opinions and edits seriously, you ought to Register!

If I mistakenly called your edits as vandalism when I reverted them, it was probably because you did not leave an edit summary. Please realize that, in many cases, unexplained edits are indistinguishable from vandalism!

If you initiated a conversation here, I will most likely respond to your comments here, rather than on your talk page (except for certain people from Alberta or Australia!) Also, if you are discussing an article, I would prefer to use that article's talk page, unless you'd prefer not to use that page for some reason, such as commenting on a particular user's edits in semi-privacy. Please limit this page to discussions not related to any particular article, those covering a wide range of articles/topics, or personal comments.

If you wish to keep a matter confidential, you may use the "E-mail" feature (now activated!). I will respond in kind unless otherwise requested.

Thanks.

AND PLEASE SIGN YOUR POSTS!!!! The annoying SineBot doesn't work here!

Title Case May Be Used in Headings on This Page

Me, myself, and I use serial commas.

Comments

WP:Mediation Cabal

You may be interested in Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-01-31 Indian Navy; on whether the claims of the Rg Veda on Varuna have any real function in IIndian Navy. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:59, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll take a look. - BillCJ (talk) 00:15, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

thanks for Infobox fix

Hi BillCJ, I myself had changed old climate box to infobox, but saved it (unsigned) before realizing that it broke ref section somehow. I discovered the goof with ref and did not know how to fix it quickly, so reverted it. Thanks for the infobox fix. Chirag (talk) 21:11, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah, gotcha! You had changed the Infobox as an IP, and then reverted it as a Registered user without saying you were the same person, so I didn't catch the connection. What I did was to check Template:Infobox Weather. When I saw there was a date field outside of the ref tag, I just added it - simple fix. Checking the template page often, though not always, helps in finding and fixing such problems. That's the good think abour Wikipeida - we can all double-check each others' work, and help fix problems and errors. I still make pleny of error, and others fix tmine on a daily basis. - BillCJ (talk) 21:19, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Removing thumb sizes on Japanese military pictures

Hi there. Please note that I may restore some in an attempt to ensure the pictures line up properly with text, rather than have one or two lines creep in underneath. I won't do it for the moment, but when I do I hope you won't revert me - or will at least raise a discussion on the talk page. Thanks, John Smith's (talk) 11:36, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Please note that it makes a difference what resolutions you are using, and that the pics may not line up at other settings. It's probably best to move the pics to othr sections, to a gallery on the page, or to remove them. Thanks. - BillCJ (talk) 17:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback

My comments weren't directed at you, but only as clarification to the previous comment. You and I disagree here and there, but we both yield to consensus and remain civil. I think many others are quickly becoming uncivil in this discussion. — BQZip01 — ^talk 03:41, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I have two boys under the age of three...I have a few he can use...

Strictly for feedback, User:TomPhan weighed in on my AfD, but he has almost no edits outside my AfD. His edits are similar to CC's (misquoting me/misrepresenting what I said in order earn "points" with reviewers). Something strikes me as sockpuppety about this. Do you think I should bring it up at WP:SSP? Should I simply request a checkuser to verify? — BQZip01 — ^talk 03:53, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Mistakes

You managed to fix my dumb M61 mistake and fix the Sea Harrier thing I missed today. I can miss things sometimes. I got an account on the Plane Spotting site a week or so ago. Haven't really done anything there except start building up a watchlist. -Fnlayson (talk) 06:18, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

• And missed the non-Sea Harriers in that loss summary. I need to go to sleep... -Fnlayson (talk) 06:25, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, you're pretty good at catching a lot of my mistakes too. I think you cought a couple n the last few days even. The Harrier thing was easy to confuse, you were just copying what the other guy wrote. I was suspicious about the 6 vs. 10 losses tho, so I looked at the source, and realized the user was missing that fact that there were both Harriers and Sea Harrriers in the numbers, and that he didn't realize the difference. I know there are plenty of times you've caught similar mistakes of mine. We do make a good team tho. On the M61, I believe I made a similar mistake some months ago, and someone else corrected me; GE is the only producer I had known of to that point. - BillCJ (talk) 06:30, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

• Sure. I checked that Harrier reference page and thought the 6 vs. 10 losses was accident/ground fire mismatch thing. The good thing about an editor messing up something in good faith is you notice where clarifying is needed. I'm doing some work on the F-15N page on the plane site, btw. -Fnlayson (talk) 21:42, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

IL-76 AWACS in Iran

I'm afraid that the person who said that Iran has the AWACS modified by Iraq is correct. Here is a picture of one of them, taken in 2007 http://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran---Air/Ilyushin-Il-76-Adnan-1/1315765/M/ Hudicourt (talk) 01:15, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I never said it was a "mistake" - I said that "such an extaordinary claim certainly needs reliable sources". A photo site is not a reliable source - photos can be retouched, and captions can say anything. - BillCJ (talk) 01:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

VZ-9-AV

My first book was actually a ghost-writing project that I undertook with a researcher who owed his publisher a "first refusal project" that he wanted to devote to the VTOL flying saucer designs of Avro Canada. I knew nothing about the secret projects and had to rely on his extensive knowledge and exhaustive files based on a 30-year search through UK, U.S. and Canadian sources. Eventually, through the use of Freedom of Information Act requests in both countries as well as separate searches through UK sources, author/researcher Les Wilkinson obtained the original documentation on all of the Avro Canada "black" projects dating from 1952-1961. These projects included spade-shaped tail-sitters and disc-shaped "flat risers" that eventually culminated in the WS-606A supersonic fighter program that was funded by the USAF. The VZ-9-AV Avrocar which was initially considered a "proof-of-concept" test vehicle for the supersonic fighter was also funded by the U.S. Army as an entry in the "flying Jeep" sweepstakes. All the manuals, and every official document including company, government and military correspondence refers to the "VZ-9-AV" which was a reference to the project's Avro Canada origins. The project office was at USAF Dayton AFB and most of the material that was obtained came from USAF sources.

Only after its demise did the VZ-9 designation become standard in referring to the Avrocar. I can elaborate further but I will have to resort to the dreaded "original research" to pull out the company manuals and other corroborating material. After Les' untimely death during our collaboration, I received 30 boxloads of his research, of which approximately 1/3 has now been donated to a museum that acted as a depository for research on the Avro Canada company history. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 04:18, 8 February 2008 (UTC).

Bill, I did discuss this apparent discrepancy in my book: Avrocar: Canada's Flying Saucer (p. 69) as the "official" designation that was established by the Project Office was not always carried through but there are numerous other sources including Bill Rose and Tony Buttler's recent Secret Projects: Flying Saucer Aircraft (p. 76) that correctly identify the project as "VZ-9AV" (note the slight variation). From interviews with the engineering staff responsible, it was a designation that was made by the USAF WS606A Project Office to recognize the orgins of the project. It did not seem to be a requirement from the company as by that time, nearly 100% of funding was coming from the U.S. military, but it was acknowledged that the "AV" code was nonstandard. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 14:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC).

Canadian roundal

(moved comments from User talk:BillCJ/UBX/GWSun to here) - Fnlayson (talk) 18:31, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey Bill,

I have to apologize for not realizing to document my edits, I am very new here.

But, I was until recently a former member of the Canadian Forces and the roundel that is on the Canadian C-17 is commonly known as the RCAF roundel. The current roundel was introduced in 1965, simplifying the former roundel to match the maple leaf on the new Canadian flag. It has to my knowledge, training, and experience and in several references been referred to as the RCAF roundel, more of a tribute than anything else. This policy is in keeping with recognizing pre-unification items, such as the RCAF tartan and the RCAF March Past, as official 'issue'. Yes, the RCAF has been gone 40 years now, since 1968, but something’s do remain! ;-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimsim22 (talk • contribs)

Arbitrary?

Don't assume anything I do on Wikipedia is arbitrary, please. —Quicksilver^{T @} 09:35, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

It's arbitrary per the MOS, whether you think it is or not. -- BillCJ (talk) 09:38, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Certification request

Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Cumulus_Cloud#Users_certifying_the_basis_for_this_dispute — BQZip01 — ^talk 22:00, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Soviet aircraft carrier Varyag

Please be a little slower on the button when you revert. You will notice if you check again that your revert wiped out a cite I had just put in to a Congressional Research Service report down the bottom, citing something that had only previously had forums for substantiation. You seem to have picked up on my primary concern - which issue of Jane's Defence Weekly, and when? page number, etc. Buckshot06 (talk) 06:59, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about the stomp - the second edit was off the screen, and I totally missed it - I'll try to be more careful. I hope you got my point about tagging in the middle of a quote. Just a reminder that neither one of us are perfect, huh? And I've been trying so hard to be perfecter laterly! - BillCJ (talk) 07:04, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

thanks for the heads-up and good catch!

it does look like I got a little confused there with my edit to the 767 article...musta just had too many tabs open. thanks for the fix and friendly note about it! – ɜɿøɾɪɹℲ _{( тɐʟк • ¢ʘи†ʀ¡βs )} 22:10, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Politics of Puerto Rico

Im curious over all the edits going around, but my guess is that you are trying to unify all these articles, is this correct? - Caribbean~H.Q. 20:02, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Tying to, yes. See Talk:Politics of Puerto Rico#Major clean-up. If you can help constructively, such as writing a summary on the section I've taken out on Puerto Rico, I'd appreciate that. - BillCJ (talk) 20:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I am not up to date with politics and have avoided them since leaving the island on 2007, I'm probably not the user to summarize all those arguments. Just a comment though, the "oldest colony in the world" argument is a mayor game piece in the PNP (pro statehood) and PIP (pro independence) campains, wich means that its should be summarized in the lead somehow, however I am not sure how to write what is essentially a POV argument from a NPOV possition. - Caribbean~H.Q. 20:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I really don't know that much either. Basically, I'm trying to combine what is there taht is sourced, and remove the more-outrageous statements that aren't sourced. I'll try to work the "oldest colony in the world" part back into to the Lead if I can, but such a statement really needs an opposing view to balance it out.

Despite the circumstances of the choice, Commonwealth status was chosen in a referendum. THe Philippines was achieved commonwealth status in 1937, and gained full independence in 1946. I don't think anyone back then really intended for PR to remain a commonwealth for over 50 years, tho I could be completely wrong on that assumption. I think they expected statehood or independence to be chosen relativley soon, but that didn't happen. To me, the main problem with Commonwealth status is that it has know constitutional "status", being something entirely created by Congress, and subject to change by Congress. There are only two ways to change that: PR statehood, which would give it all the rights of statehood, but all the responsibilities too; or amend the US Constitution to provide voting rights to non-states such as PR, as with DC and the 23rd amendment giving the district the right to vote in Presidential elections. It seems to me that many in PR want both to be semi-independent while remain with the US, and have full voting rights in Congress, but not be subject to the same taxation as US states (the so-called "enhanced-Commonwealth status). THat's not going to happen, in my opinion. At some point, a choice to move forward is going to have to be made by PR residents, to either statehood or independence. I'm glad to see the US COngrees finally moving toward a referendum on these choices, and I hope it can happen soon. - BillCJ (talk) 20:37, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Only a referendum with two choices can resolve the status issue, because otherwise it will be inconclusive, however I don't see that happening based on a consensus of the political parties on the island, especially because there will be heavy debating coming from the PPD (pro commonwealth) who have prevailed in those organized so far, personally I think that unless one of the two parts (that being the governments of PR and the US) takes a conclusive and final action this debate will outlive me and my generation. - Caribbean~H.Q. 21:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Kelowna Flightcraft Ltd.

Bill, thanks for your help in this article. When I read the other Flightcraft Charter article, I noted that it was probably best to revise that article but when I had tried to get the editor who had written most of the article and had moved it to revise the other similar article, he insisted that everything I said or wrote was wrong and so we were at an impasse. I left the article alone for the time being and then some wag found it yesterday in my sandbox projects and asked me to post it. Even though it wasn't anywhere near finished, I complied.

For the last few weeks, I had gone off on a tangent, writing aviation film articles just for a break. As to "The Ruptured Duck" article, it came from an aside in the "Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo" article I was working on and it seemed to be an interesting subject. Thanks for editing this article as well. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 08:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC).

I awoke to a flurry of activity on both pages. Please check the changes, I think everyone's contributions have made both pages substantially different from the original source articles and will probably pass muster now. FWIW, I did get it, BTW, that's my lot in life – to be the "burr under the saddle"! LOL Bzuk (talk) 13:57, 14 February 2008 (UTC).

BA609 edits

BillCJ,

I saw that you changed 2010 to 2011, and 60 to 80, but did not update the references. Is this information you can cite? Right now the references in place show cert in 2010 and 60 orders. If there isn't a source, I think it needs to be reverted. - Davandron | Talk 19:48, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but that wasn't me - it was the edit before mine. I'll will try to check the BAAC website later to double check the new figures. - BillCJ (talk) 19:53, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

E-3 page

Any idea what the "expand" tag is for on the E-3 development paragraph? ComputerGeezer (talk) 02:29, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes. The article covers none of the history leading up to AWACS, nor the early development of the E-3. For example, the section should mention that the aging EC-121 Warning Stars needed replacement, and the new capabilities that the USAF wanted. There is no mention of the original designation, "EC-137D", or the fact that the original design was to have been powered by 8 TF34 turbofan engines. In addition, almost all of the existing "Development" section should be placed in the "Design" section, as that is what it covers. I have a few print sources with relevant info, and hope to get to it sometime in the future. My wiki-plate is pretty full for the time being, so it may be awhile, hence the tag. I will add these comments to the E-3 talk page. - BillCJ (talk) 02:39, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

• Yea, a lot of design info, but little on how it came to be. I adjusted the tag on that page to try and say that. -Fnlayson (talk) 04:20, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Jeff. Milb1 has already added a "Variants" section, but he has done that before on his own, so coincidence or not, Thanks Milb1! - BillCJ (talk) 05:10, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry it wasnt a coincidence this time!! I did see your message above and just happened to have my book on 707s handy so i thought I would just do it. MilborneOne (talk) 21:03, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Rither way, many thanks! - BillCJ (talk) 21:56, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Country of Origin

With regard to your recent comments about country of origin I think adding it to the infobox would be a good idea. I have been adding it into the intros of aircraft articles when I see them missing but having it in the infobox would do no harm. I was once reverted for being over patriotic when I added it in the intro to a Boeing article and I am not from North America!. Main problem is with US articles when the presumption (wrongly in my opinion) that if it doesnt say the related country it must be American!! Perhaps it may be worth bringing up again at project. MilborneOne (talk) 20:09, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

My problem is the presumption that American articles must state "American", while so many of other nations do not state their country of origin. It's honestly haphazardly applied, and I think that it were some on the objections come in. I'll try to mention the infobox issue again at WT:AIR in a day or two.

Btw, please remember that the US has more people speaking English as their primary first language than all other such nations combined, tho many have trouble accepting this. Thus nearly 300 million people (certainly more than the English speaking Commonwealth citizens) have to share wikispace with people from the other English speaking countries, as well as many for whom English is not a first language who are from non-English-speaking countries. This is not the case for most of the other wikis, whose usage is tied to primarily one nation or geographich region, Spanish and perhaps French being the other major exceptions. I'm not complaining about the situation itself, as this is a by-product of English being the near-universal language, just asking for a little more understanding and lee-way from non-Americans. Yes, we share space with the rest of the world, but vice-versa is true too! (Sorry for the lecture - just my latest soapbox issue!) - BillCJ (talk) 20:27, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I think that all aircraft articles should state the country of origin whatever that is - I suspect you are right that the problem would be less. I understand about your balance of english speakers argument and the reason for tolerance - just a lot of people to educate then that their is a world outside of the USA!! MilborneOne (talk) 20:39, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree with your last statement totally! I grew up partically outside of the US in a non-white commonwealth nation, and realize how bad that myopic view many Americans have is. I assign most of the blame to the current US media obsession with targeting the lowest-common denominator of intelligence in entertainment and news programming. I haven't wathced Amercin network news programs intentionally in over 20 years, as they spend 22 minutes on expanded "personal" stories, with litte har "American" news coverage, much less anything else from the rest of the world! I grew up where you could turn on the radio at 3pm, and listen to an hour of BBC World Radio news coverage - now THAT was comprehensive. Don't know if they're still that way or not. Also, US government-run schools are atrocious, and spend little time on world events outside of America's di

direct interaction, and currently most of that is in a purely negative light. So not only do they no nothing of the rest of the world, they think all the rest of the world's problems are our fault! I guess the fall of the various Eqyptian Empires was our fault since the US wasn't there to make it worse! - BillCJ (talk) 20:53, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Dornier Do 24

Nice job on the Dornier Do 24 page Bill. I fixed it up a bit, and added some photos, but I like what you have done. Cheers from Canada.  ;-) --RobNS 23:36, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks much, and thanks for adding the pics. A large number of pics were deleted from WikiCommons recently for not have correct copyright status info, and the Do 24 lost several in the purge. - BillCJ (talk) 23:43, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Sikorsky X2 update

Hey Bill, didn't know if you were aware that we will be unveiling the X2 at HeliExpo 2008 this year. I have a few photos of the finished vehicle, and apparently some have already been posted online. I didn't take any myself personally, so I'm unsure of the copyright position. Heres a teaser: http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/4195/x21jm5.jpg Unfortunately, our test schedule and specifically tether testing last week was put on hold for the show. --Cefoskey (talk) 04:54, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks much! I need to get busy and research some more sources, and try to get my X2 sandbox page ready before the first filght. Usually such events bring out more interest in the aritcle, and if there's not much in it already, we end up with a lot of info being added that is not well written and/or not sourced. - BillCJ (talk) 07:12, 20 February 2008 (UTC)