Talk:Balkans

Comment from Hahahihihoho

Can that Ante Pantelic or what he name is, stop writing croatian propaganda! I am tired of him! He write that Croatia dont belong to Balkans but they have belonged to the Balkans for more than 2000 years!'Italic text I will not accept that he write things that is completely false! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hahahihihoho (talk • contribs).

Hahahihihoho, please try not to delete other people's comments, like you did a few already. If you want to say something, just add it at the bottom.

Also, I didn't add anything. I merely reverted your unexplained edits. You should spend some time reading some wikipedia rules. Start here: WP:NPOV and WP:VERIFY. --Ante Perkovic 15:14, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, Ante, lets make a deal:

If you will keep writing that Croatia isnt Balkan and so on, then I will write that Bosnia and Hercegovina also isnt Balkan. If we can make that deal then it is OK, and then we can stop fighting about that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hahahihihoho (talk • contribs)

Please, explain what is wrong with each of the sections you deleted. If not, please revert your changes.

• Over the last decade, in the wake of the former Yugoslav split, Croatians and especially Slovenians have rejected their former label as 'Balkan nations'. This is in part due to the pejorative connotation of the term 'Balkans' in the 1990s, and continuation of this meaning until now. Today, the term 'Southeast Europe' is preferred or, in the case of Slovenia and sometimes Croatia, 'Central Europe'.
• Other factors such as prior history and culture also bind Croatia to Central Europe and the Mediterranean region more than they bind it to the Balkans. Nevertheless, its peculiar geographic shape (as well as its recent history with Yugoslavia) inherently associates it with the region Bosnia and Herzegovina is part of.

--Ante Perkovic 16:24, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Croatia IS NOT and WILL NEVER BE CENTRAL EUROPE. Croatia has allways been Balkan, you speek same language as bosnians and serbs, you ARE NOT CENTRAL EUROPE. Look at a map of Europe and you will see. And Btw, if Croatia is Central Europe, then Bosnia is it too.

I cant stand anymore of that. YOU ARE NOT CENTRAL EUROPE AND I WONT GIVE UP THIS FIGHT. You are Balkan, you belong to Balkan and you are croats, which mean that you are bosniaks, serbs just with another religon.

I, Hahahihihoho, now demand Ante Perkovic to change that because that is not true!— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hahahihihoho (talk • contribs)

Do you speak english?

If you do, please read my question.

Try to stay on topic instead ranting about totally unrelated things. Just read the part you deleted and answer the question. If you are blocked, you can answer the question on your talk page.

Ante Perkovic 16:52, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

The fight aint over Ante, my fight for justice will continue. I tried to talk to you to change your text but failed cause you obvious cant have a discussion. I tried but it didnt work. Derfor I will change in your article and write down that whick is the right thing. And not the lies that you wrote.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hahahihihoho (talk • contribs)

Ok, just go on with your jihhad. I just want to note that you deleted the sam etext like last time regardless of the fact that you agreed with some of my notes in the meantime. --Ante Perkovic 12:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Note: I will only change 3 times in 12 hours.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hahahihihoho (talk • contribs)

Note: Learn to sign your post, unless you are trying to prove that you have 2-digit IQ. --Ante Perkovic 12:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Haha, Ante, Ante, Ante,Ante, Ante!!!

Pa ti si stvarno pokazo da si ti jedan hrvat. Tako glup, tako tvrdoglav, stvarno, kad se vidi tebe, neko bi mislio da su svaki hrvati kao sto si ti. Ti si sramota za Hrvatsku. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hahahihihoho (talk • contribs)

Croatia is a balkan country. There is no need to deny this. --Ćele Kula 20:17, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Hahahihihoho, don't waste your time fighting with those few rotten brained cro-nationalists of the type of Ante, Kubura, and 2-3 others. They're totally isolated in their propaganda statements on croatian wikipedia, and everybody knows that croatian wikipedia is having its 'dark age' being full of lies and crap, written by those few pathetic souls. Many people feel sorry for them. They live in theirown imaginary world where they have created their unreal and virtually 'ideal Croatia'. Unfortinatelly for them, the reality is much different, and every normal person sees how lame and limited are their poor ideas of their dying propaganda. Hopufully they won't stay for long. The dark age for croatian wikipedia will be over soon, and new croatian editors will come into the scene, someone who lives in the real world and someone who sees Croatia as it really is, exactly like you, me and everybody normal sees it. Cheers.24.86.110.10 01:19, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

CROATIA IS NOT A BALKAN COUNTRY. That is completly out of the question. I reject such false allegations and would like to be presented with some evidence. Just because Croatia has endured a horrific centaury thanks to being in a union with Serbia and Bosnia it does not give anyone the wright to deny its Central European history and orientation. And btw Croatia did not exist 2000 years ago. You are reffering to the Roman Empire. I guess Octavian August was probably Serbian and Attila the Hun was born near Brcko distrikt :)Kontrolleur Cro 02.11, February 7, 2008

You have no clue about this topic and you'd better not spread your toxic and senseless propaganda about 'Croatia being something 'different' than Bosnia and Serbia'. That's a total nonsense, it belongs to the past and you cannot fool anybody anymore with it! Your propaganda is powerless as all the world now knows that Serbs, Croats and Bosnians speak same language, have same mentality, are genetically totaly identical and are considered to be a SAME nation by all the serious scientific factors in the world. That's the truth, and if it's killing you-it's your problem. Whatever you've learned in your school by your HDZ brainwashed teacher is not true. It's just that well known temporar and miserable croatian nationalistic propaganda, which nobody in the world takes seriously. CROATIA IS A BALKAN COUNTRY, as well as BOSNIA, MONTENEGRO and SERBIA. Montenegrin coast and Northern Serbia are as much 'central european looking' as croatian coast or Zagreb. Still all those regions, either in Serbia or Croatia are BALKAN and will be Balkan for the rest of the world. Not any lies that you write on this discussion page can change that fact and all other facts I mentioned above. And, if you want to be better and well informed, don't waste your time reading all the miserable lies and other trash on croatian wikipedia, but go and read about The Balkans on ENGLISH or german wikipedia. English wikipedia is one of most reliable wikipedias, and it presents the facts in a best way, totally truthfully and completelly. Cheers.24.86.110.10 (talk) 06:37, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Rename article to Southeastern Europe?

Don't you think this would be a good idea, it seems like most of the people are hanged up on the pejorative meaning of "Balkans" or "Balkanic". As for "Balkans" we can present the etymology of the word and have a short explanation that it refers to countries in Southeastern Europe but it is sometimes considered pejorative by some people. I think it's against Wikipedia's policy to have pejorative terms as a main page when there is a perfect term that's not considered offensive by anybody (as far as I know). -- AdrianTM 03:11, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Boarder as far away as Hungary?

Acording to national geographic they have there own little version of the Balkans.

http://www.ngmapstore.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=160&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=6&iSubCat=45&iProductID=160

Please give me some feedback to that map id appreciate it :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zsombor Toth (talk • contribs) 04:27, 19 November 2006(UTC)

Who is Zeune?

The article mentions someone named Zeune. It doesn't explain who Zeune is, nor does it provide any reference. This is confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.120.200.178 (talk • contribs) 23:19, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Good point. I added some information about Zeune and a reference.Neven Karlovac 02:37, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Thrace

In the article it is stated that only the European part of Turkey (called Thrace) belongs to the Balkans. I'm a fraid that we have to edit it a bit cause Thrace was a province now split in Northern Thrace (which now belongs to Bulgaria), Western Thrace (which belongs to Greece) and Eastern Thrace (which belongs to Turkey). I checked "Thrace" on wiki and it mentions the same. So i'm gonna edit text here to match the things mentioned in "Thrace: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sairin Lote (talk • contribs) 22:13, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

To Ivan!!!

In Republika Srpska according to government information it lives around 1,4 millions. Of them around 89 % is serbs and that is documented. This means that there are around 1,3 million serbs in Bosnia. And in the federation it lives 2 350 000 and of them 17 % is croats. In RS 1 % of the population is croats which clearly shows that it lives around 400 000 croats in Bosnia.

As for bosniaks, since it lives 80 % in the Federation, this mean that only in the Federation it lives 1 880 000 bosniaks and add 150 000 bosniaks in Republika Srpska, you will get around 2 million bosniaks in Bosnia.

And what is 2 million divided with 3820 000 which is the current population of Bosnia? That is 52 % which makes Islam the principal religion in Bosnia. You WILL say this is only speculation and this isnt official but please, Ivan, tell me:

Is your estimates official? No, they arent! And since we already know the current population of RS (1 479 000) and FBIH (2,350 000) then we also can assume which people are in majority in Bosnia since bosniaks make up 80 % of the FBIH and arond 10 % of RS.

I hope you give me a good answer because if you revert again without refering to sources or give me a fully explanation without only writing "that is only speculations" since your estimates is as much speculations as my is, then I am going to see this as clearly vandalism.

Pozdrav // Alkalada 12:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

POV pushing [re Croatia]

To all the users trying to imply that Croatia is not a Balkan country as if that were something bad (!) cite your sources. We have sources defining Croatia as a Balkan country [1][2][3]. Are there any sources contradicting?--Domitius 12:29, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

The thing is that some international sources claim that Croatia is a part of Central Europe, some say it belongs to the Balkans. So, these sources don’t proof anything really since they all place Croatia in different regions. Most international historians and academics claim that Croatia belongs to Central Europe and the western Catholic sphere. Historically Croatia has been considered to be a part of Central Europe – and most important of all – Croats identify themselves as a part of Central Europe and at the same time recognising the Mediterranean influence in their culture. Croatia and Croats have more in common with the CE than with the Balkans and I really don’t understand why this is even being an issue for some people. --84.217.47.194 (talk) 20:32, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Croatia

LETS GO ONE BY ONE - Mediterranean -> http://www.ibe.unesco.org/publications/Thesaurus/00002903.htm UN classifies Croatia into the group of Mediterranean nations. Croatian coastline being more than 5300 km long, confirms this. - Central Europe - through 900 years of Austro-Hungary during which 99% of its present territory was under that republic which was classified as Central European. Proofs:

• http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3166.htm - US officially classifies croatia as in between central and eastern europe, which means it may be in this Central classification since countries that go more East are included (ie Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary)
• The area that is considered more South (south of Sava being the maximum territory of south known as widest value of area of Balkans) makes less than 50% of the territory, and the North which is geographically 100% in Central Europe has more than half of Croatia's territory (50%+X). Not withstanding that area below Sava is still considered Central European too without disagreements up to a point. This is mentioned to pullin for the fact that north and northe west Germany technically are hard to prove central European Geographically, same goes for eastern Poland, eastern Slovakia. (this argument is finalised in the conclusion)

- Balkans - Both Croatia and Slovenia became more Balkanly noted since 1914 due to KSRS and Yugoslavia I and II being formed. Confusion arrises today with the notion of Western Balkans. To see that it is not a firm thing one can go to Lonely Planet http://www.lonelyplanet.com/worldguide/destinations/europe/croatia/see and then on the side see a link to Western Balkans book which is basically almost all of old Yugoslavia, Croatia and Slovenia inclusive. So yes, due to the two being both in central and south and eastern europe in some part - it all depends which aspect one allows to predominate. - Eastern Europe - I believe one needs not to prove this.

Conclusion Because, Croatia is not a mere dreamer to be Central European oriented country but has much facts that can support its belonging to CE, and because there are nations recognising its Central European identity this group must allow it to be part of it. Many countries in Europe have more than one "region" For example, Austria is both central and western, it does not mean Slovakia is western nor does it deny it to be central. Logically, there must be like I said some common background tolerating it to be in Central European website, and I believe there is annough. User:aradic-en

Sorry, but YOU CANNOT PUT SLOVENIA AND CROATIA IN THE SAME BASKET. Slovenia was a Central EUROPE even in the time of former Yugoslavia. It has a distinct culture, with itsown distinct language, different from Serbocroatian. On the contrary, Croatia has always belonging to the Balkans and Mediteranean with its folklor, language and culture, almost identical to Serbian. Those are the facts of the truth. Cheers! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.86.110.10 (talk) 22:32, August 20, 2007 (UTC)

This is funny! Croatia and Slovenia have shared the same history since the Slavic tribes arrived to the area and until 1991 when these two states became independent. One can not claim that Slovenia belongs to CE and Croatia to the Balkans. Slovenia and Croatia has more in common historically, culturally, geographically and economically than with the Balkans. The only thing that is different is that Slovenia today is a part of the EU (Croatia will soon become a member too) and that the Croatian language is more similar to Serbian than Slovenian is to Serbian. (However, there are big similarities between Slovenian and Croatian). Croats and Slovenians share the same values as the people in CE – these values are based on the Central European Catholic culture that is dominant in these two countries – while the Islam and the Orthodox culture are dominant in the Balkans. --84.217.47.194 (talk) 20:18, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but what you wrote above is an absolute lie! It all sounds like it’s coming from someone who got frozen in time 150 years ago, ha, ha. The things have totally changed since the time when Slovenia and Croatia were both parts of Austro-Hungarian Empire. You need to wake up and face the reality, which is: Slovenia is EU, but Croatia, Serbia and Bosnia are BALKAN. There is an enormous and unbeatable closeness between Serbs/Croats/Bosnians in their mentality, national instruments, songs, dances, so that many scientists consider them ONE NATION, regardless of their religion (Croats=Catholics, Serbs=Orthodox, Bosnians=Muslim). Slovenians are something totally different than them. In fact, if you really wake up and see the newspapers and Medias around you, you’ll see what Slovenians think of Croatians: - they consider Croats as a lower race, still not worthy being in EU (see the latest Zmago Jelacic, Slovenian politician’s interview for HTV, see Slovenian prime minister Jansa’s talks in the EU Parliament, where he puts Serbia before Croatia to join EU which is also supported by many other EU countries, see ‘you tube’ on this problem, etc.) No matter how you look upon it, Slovenians and EU nations consider the ‘problematic’ Balkan nations-Serbs, Croats and Bosnians as a same type of aggressive people, who fought between themselves for years, and whose national ‘heroes’ from the latest war are filling up The Haag Tribunal of Justice. They are all WEST BALKANS in the eyes of Europeans. Not ANY propaganda can change that fact! Not any dirty propaganda can prove that one side was ‘better’ than other. They are all SAME and will stay SAME. Consequently to this, for your big disappointment, -Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia (and probably the rest of the West Balkan) will join EU in an approximate similar time, as they deserve. Regardless of how the things are presented in Croatia, there’s NO Croatian language, but only a Croatian standard of the same South Slavic Central System, or formerly known as Serbo-Croatian language, to which also belong Bosnian, Montenegrin, Serbian and Bunjevac standards. That’s a fact. Slovenian language is a totally different language than Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian with the latter considered to be ONE language with a few writing standards. This is the fact that EU and all the world serious scientific factors recognize and NO dirty Croatian national-chauvinist propaganda can change it. Not here, not anywhere. As for the minor ‘differences’ between these standards, refer to the great article here, at wikipedia, under ‘The differences between B.C.S. standards of Serbo-Croatian language’. Those ‘differences’ are NOTHING compared to the real differences between Sicilian language and Venetian language in Italy, which are still one ‘Italian language’ in EU. This only shows how pointless your propaganda can be and how FAR it is from the European standards for similar matters. It doesn’t matter that Croatia has catholic heritage, it’s still dominantly a Balkan and Mediterranean country, (with a little area north of Zagreb, which can be considered as a Central European). Similarly, northern Albania has also a catholic heritage, and it’s not Central Europe, but a Balkan and Mediterranean country. And at the end if you think that your poor Croatian national-chauvinist propaganda could work through you this time, you are wasting your time. Your propaganda is powerless and whatever you comment against these facts I presented, it’s just a barren talk. No more senseless propagandas at wikipedia, not from you, not from any other remains of it. And another news that came these days: -the following link confirms that because of stubbornness and not following what EU orders, Croatia is not likely to join EU in 2011, not even 2013. Ha, ha, this will be a hard HIT right into the heart for all those poor Croatian -nationalist-chauvinists. It will be an embarrassing END for all of them and for their propaganda for goods. HA, HA, that's how the thing are, and eventually soon all West Balkans will be part of EU! Regarding all this and on the contrary, Serbia is going to become a candidate country for EU very soon, and eventually join EU in the next 5-6 years, or in the almost same time with Croatia. The rest of the West Balkan as well. Here’s the link to the exciting news:

     http://see.oneworldsee.org/article/view/150489/1/

    So, best wishes to all enjoy the news and CHEERS!

Sweet dreams,buddy! --Anto (talk) 22:13, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

you Janezi , simply can not stop! Yes, Croatia is not (still) in EU. Neither you have been alwys! How pathetic! --Anto (talk) 08:00, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, we 'Janezi' (or Slovenians) cannot and won't stop fighting for the truth, and we have all EU on our side. You can only DREAM of joining EU if you hide all the facts with all your BALKAN stubborness. Unless you change your attitude, for Slovenians and all other Europeans you will always be WEST BALKANS, ha, ha. Cheers24.86.110.10 (talk) 05:07, 10 March 2008 (UTC) You'd better see the WONDERFUL MAP OF THE WEST BALKANS, there's a link at the end of the page leading to your beautiful homeland-THE WESTERN BALKAN STATE OF CROATIA! Enjoy.

Serbia and Montenegro isn't a country anymore

So, in History and geopolitical significance section, Serbia and Montenegro should be corrected, and some new facts added (recent continuation of EU talks). I myself can't do it as I don't have wiki account. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.216.129.120 (talk • contribs) 17:39, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Montenegro

This map still shows Montenegro as a part of Serbia. It is now an independent country. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.61.98.24 (talk) 17:34:21, August 19, 2007 (UTC)

The name

Umm, today I heard an interesting info about the name Balkan. I was told that it means honey and blood in Turkish, which would be a very interesting fact to unclude (it's also a very suitable name lolol). The info is totally unsourced, but if anyone's interested, you could do a little search about it... Who knows, maybe it really means honey and blood (I don't know about the mountain). --INkubusse 18:38, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

When travelling through the region, I read the same thing at the Ron Habib exhibition in dubrovnik. Checking the translations at http://www.seslisozluk.com/ In Turkish Bal does indeed mean honey, and Kan does mean blood. Given the natural beauty of the region, its abundance of natural resources, and its tumultuous bloody history, there may well be something in that. (84.9.159.156 (talk) 14:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC))

Media mention

This article quoted from and discussed today by local Denver talk show host Mike Rosen on KOA radio. I see it is already sprotected but wanted to give a heads up for possible disruption anyway.--Ginkgo100^talk 16:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Principal religion

So what does means "principal religion" statistically? If you say that principal religion of Bosnia and Herzegovina is Islam what does this means? I am 100% sure that there is more christian people than Muslim, I am 100% sure that there is no religion that has more than 50% of BH population. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.148.96.195 (talk) 14:42, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

WEST BALKAN countries news page.

All the West Balkan countries: Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia and Hercegovina, Montenegro, Macedonia and Albania have a fast growing common West Balkan 'Agenda', including premier summits (the newest one was in Dubrovnik, Croatia, in November, 2007), regional sport events and manylateral colaboration summits in many areas of the region. Also there are many news web pages presenting news from all the parts of The West Balkans. One of the most popular West Balkan news web pages is: http://see.oneworld.net/article/frontpage/148/2582

Regards, and Cheers. 24.86.110.10 02:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

24.86.110.10 you have forgotten to include Slovenia into the West Balkans! After all Slovenia has always been considered as part of thee Balkans.Cheers

Kontrolleur Cro 02:18, 7 February 2008

No, you are wrong, Slovenia has NEVER been a Balkan country, and will never be. Slovenia is CENTRAL EUROPE. The borders of the same Balkan environment and same Balkan people's attitude,(or the borders of The Balkans) begin when you cross the border between EU and Croatia. Typical Balkan countries are all the countries of The West Balkans: Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia/Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Greece, Romania and Macedonia. Sometimes as a Balkan country is presented Hungary and Moldova. Like it or not, those are the FACTS. Cheers.24.86.110.10 (talk) 05:57, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

CROATIA is BALKAN, that's why it is a part of WEST BALKANS, together with Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania. Read a little and get informed. The truth is everywhere. Greetings; —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.34.170.129 (talk) 23:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Too many pictures

This article contains too many pictures of the Balkans. It is clutering the page with useless information such as regioinal organizations. --Damir H. (talk) 18:22, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Balkans history

In the slideshow showing the history of Balkans,the Kingdom of Yugoslavia is shown with Istria and the Slocenian coast,however,they were Italian territories 1918-1943. 78.3.23.38 (talk) 20:20, 10 February 2008 (UTC)—Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.3.23.38 (talk) 20:05, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Serbia an Montenegro???

These two countries separated 2 years ago, the map is old and quite provocative... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.134.144.39 (talk) 09:51, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

That is a map showing the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. It is important because it was called "Yugoslavia". The country then renamed itself to Serbia and Montenegro. Someone does need to change the year though - it was called "Yugoslavia" until 2003, not 2006. BalkanFever 10:17, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Ethnicities

There are ethnicity maps from the late 1800's and early 1900's but could someone find a current map. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.209.139 (talk) 01:12, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

A beautiful map of The West Balkans

This map of the West Balkans was published in 'Jutarnji List', a Croatian newspaper these days. You can see all the countries belonging to West Balkans, and their progress on their way to EU. The text is in SerboCroatian. Enjoy: http://www.jutarnji.hr/EPHResources/Images/2008/03/04/kartavelika.jpg. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.86.110.10 (talk • contribs) 21:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

True, the map is rather refined. --George D. Božović (talk) 21:33, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Encyclopaedia Britannica

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9110555/Balkans

Balkan Peninsula easternmost of Europe's three great southern peninsulas, comprising Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro, Macedonia, Albania, Bulgaria, Romania, and Moldova.

The Balkans are bordered by Italy on the northwest, Austria and Hungary on the north, Ukraine on the north and northeast, and Greece and Turkey on the south. The region is washed by…