Talk:Cat Stevens

Previous discussions:

• Archive 1 (July 2004 to October 2005)
• Archive 2 (Fall 2005 to December 2007)
• Archive 3 (2008)

Photos

Hey, I got busy and there is now a photo with an indisputable license, of Cat Stevens-- still needs resizing from someone to fit the infobox better. There's also one of Yusuf Islam coming in the next couple of days (inshallah!) but I have faith it'll be OK, plus another really nice Yusuf shot I haven't asked for. Takes hours just to tell people to change a couple of copyright icons.. sheesh. I thought I didn't get it. Fortunately, this man who owns this photo is OK. --leahtwosaints (talk) 12:29, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Salman Rushdie section

I have removed portions of the section on Salman Rushdie. In particular, I removed the statement "his comments have left an indelible impression on his reputation as a man of peace." I did so for the following reasons: 1) The statement is an opinion and does not represent a NPOV; 2) The citation was from a Chicago Tribune article that does not mention the Rushdie incident at all; 3) Immediately following the 1989 incident, and in the 20 years since, he has vehemently denied ever calling for the death of Rushdie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alfall999 (talk • contribs) 03:04, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps you have edited out too much. Where is the exact statement that Stevens made re Rushdie? When I saw him comment, maybe he wasn't calling for Rushdie's death but there was no doubt he wanted Rushdie's writing to be prohibited, one way or another. Also if I recall, he himself stated later on that he was under certain influences at that time, which have changed.Ykral (talk) 11:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Rename Page to Yusaf Islam

This wikipedia page is titled "Cat Stevens" which is not either his real name or, in many years, his chosen name. It seems to reflect a preference that is less objective than nostalgic. While Cat Stevens should lead people to this page and the body should note he is perhaps best known as Cat Stevens, the title should be his name, which is Yusaf Islam. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.123.90.25 (talk) 15:56, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree! If no one want that, lets have his real name with Yusuf Islam and cat stevens redirecting to it. --86.167.87.176 (talk) 16:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Please read WP:NAME for the guiding official policy on these types of decisions. This has been discussed on this talk page at great length in the past (see the archives), and the consensus has been that his greatest fame came from his time as Cat Stevens, and that this name is the one he is most commonly known as. Our conclusion has been that most people looking for this article will search for "Cat Stevens", so it should be the name of the article. Of course those who search for "Yusuf Islam" will be instantly directed here. Thanks. Tvoz/talk 19:25, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I'd personally prefer a change to Yusuf Islam (even if his greatest fame is as Stevens, his greatest notability is as Yusuf), but I don't think it's likely at the moment. Andjam (talk) 11:11, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Not at all clear that his greatest notability is as Yusuf. Most commonly used name is the standard for naming here. Tvoz/talk 05:06, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

In the music world he clearly became famous through being Cat Stevens, but outside the music world, and among the 1 billion Muslim's of the world, he became famous for his conversion FROM Cat Stevens to Yusuf Islam and his activities as Yusuf Islam (For example, ending up on the no-fly list). Furthermore, I think its a stretch to say that most people searching for this article do so on the basis of his music. We have no way of knowing this and although I would say most people searching for this article do so in relation to his religion, neither mine nor your assumptions can be judged as any more valid.99.236.250.221 (talk) 02:37, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Ambiguous statement

"Producer Paul Samwell-Smith paired guitarist Alun Davies with Stevens, whom he initially met as a session musician" - I can't work out from this statement which of them was the session musician: can someone who knows have a stab at rewording the sentence to simplify it? Dom Kaos (talk) 21:18, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Do others feel this way? The article is about Cat Stevens and he had just chosen a new producer, who paired up Alun Davies, to do session work for Stevens. But, as the next few lines show, though it was to be only for one album, the two got along well enough, that Davies remained throughout not just that career, but also his current one. I can change it if it's too confusing the way it is in the text, but Davies isn't frequently discussed here, so I think it's obvious who the session musician was. Well, here, I'll edit it a bit. --leahtwosaints (talk) 15:27, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

It is clearer now. Tvoz/talk 05:28, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Name (again!)

I've done a bit of a wikignome tidy-up, and come across a bit of an issue: before I set to work, the names "Yusuf", "Islam" and "Yusuf Islam" were featured in a pretty haphazard manner, and it really needed some kind of standardisation. If he were called "Joe Bloggs", I would have simply changed all incidents to "Bloggs" - but as he prefers to go by just his first name, and as he shares his last name with a religion which is mentioned several times, this could lead to some confusion for readers (e.g. in the sentence "no right-thinking follower of Islam could possibly condone such an action"): so I've standardised it to "Yusuf" instead. I concede that it's a less-than-perfect way of doing it (and I'm well aware of the archived discussions regarding his name) but at least the way I've done it, it's easy for readers to differentiate between the mentions of his name and mentions of the religion to which he belongs Dom Kaos (talk) 22:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I have no problem with this edit - I think the need to differentiate between the name and the religion has always been an issue, and there is no perfect solution. I agree that using "Yusuf" for him after 1978, especially since he now uses that as his name, is reasonable. Tvoz/talk 05:09, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I apologize for editing first and commenting later, but I just saw this discussion. Last names are used across the board in Wiki, using someone’s first name because his surname happens to also be a religion seems somewhat arbitrary. For example, Terry Christian is referred to as Christian in the respective article... Rastapopoulos (talk) 13:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks - I get your point, but Terry Christian presumably does not go by the single name "Terry", and the usage of "Christian" doesn't lead to confusion in that article as it has in this one - this is a different situation, where his religion and the conversion to it, and his name changes, are integral parts of the story. As discussed before, referring to him as Yusuf is reasonable given the fact that he is known by the single name (like Prince), and since there is potential confusion between conversion to Islam and name change to Islam. I'm putting it back to long standing wording. Tvoz/talk 07:28, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

I think the page is very well done. But with regard to the name issue, it appears he has changed his name yet again, at least for professional reasons, using the single moniker "Yusuf" on his new album, website, etc. Perhaps there should be a paragraph explaining this switch to the single name, and after that, you can correctly refer to him as "Yusuf", otherwise it sounds too informal (would a page about President Obama say things like "Then Barack went to Havard..."?). I am personally curious as to why he dropped "Islam" from his professional name, but I cannot find any souces as to why he made the switch. Joe Patent (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:30, 9 November 2009 (UTC).

There is a reference to his switch to single name in the article already - no more is needed unless there are reliable sources that discuss his reasoning behind the change, etc. Tvoz/talk 18:08, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Don't we

have to write his names in Arabic and Greek? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.24.224 (talk) 17:18, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

No. - this has been discussed before. He is English, and so his name is rendered in English. Tvoz/talk 05:21, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Not sure where to fit this?

I found this list of the 100 Greatest Songwriters Living, here: [1] but don't know where in the text it would fit. I'm not feeling well so thought I'd drop it here. --leahtwosaints (talk) 15:36, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Changed music awards to music awards & recognition and added this. Tvoz/talk 05:42, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Roadsinger section

This section of Roadsinger: Both Colbert and Fallon stated that they were Cat Stevens fans, complimenting the singer on his new album and inviting him to appear again on their shows. On May 24 he appeared on the BBC's The Andrew Marr Show, where he was interviewed and performed the title track of Roadsinger. Doesn't it sound too close to POV? We don't normally mention how the hosts of late night shows respond to their guests. I imagine they'd be almost required to tell the guests to please come back, et cetera. Am I the only one who feels this way? --leahtwosaints (talk) 04:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I removed the comment about Fallon and Colbert because it was not sourced - if there's an article that discusses this, it could be ok to reinstate. Tvoz/talk 05:20, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

sic

"This issue of music in Islam is not as cut-and-dried as I was led to believe ... I relied on heresy [sic]"

Explain to me why this sentence contains [sic]. There doesn't appears to be any original mistakes in Yusuf's quote.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.80.176.22 (talk • contribs)

This is explained in footnote 70: "Note that some online sources render this word as "hearsay" but the official copy from The Globe and Mail online archives says 'heresy'." Tvoz/talk 06:00, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

In case anyone is wondering, heresy and hearsay are unrelated concepts. The first is unapproved changes to religious belief, and the second is a legal term (referring to someone hearing another person say something, as opposed to witnessing it themselves). Andjam (talk) 13:44, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely - which is why the discrepancy in the two is relevant to note. Saying his position was based on heresy is quite different from saying it was based on hearsay, and I don't think we're in a position to know which he meant. Tvoz/talk 16:11, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

New link?

Found this: [2] My computer's down or I'd try to do something with it. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 21:38, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Cat Stevens/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

As part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles' Project quality task force ("GA Sweeps"), all old good articles are being re-reviewed to ensure that they meet current good article criteria (as detailed at WP:WIAGA.) I have determined that this article needs some work to meet current criteria, outlined below:

• The lead needs some sprucing up, as it doesn't currently meet requirements of summarizing the entire article; it dwells too long on his conversion to Islam and awards, and not enough on his biography and career path. (WP:LEAD)
• There are many instances throughout the article of one or two-sentence groupings all by themselves. These are not true paragraphs (which by definition need three or more sentences as a bare minimum) and so these need to be cut, merged into other paragraphs or combined to form them, or else expanded. Ex in the lead are "He currently lives with his wife and children in London, and spends part of each year in Dubai.[4]" and "His newest album, Roadsinger, was released on 5 May 2009."
• The sourcing and references of the article need to be checked. At the very least, there are many trailing sentences to paragraphs that are unsourced. Some examples:
  • "His parents divorced when he was about 8 years old, but they continued to maintain the family restaurant and live above it."
  • ""I'm Gonna Get Me a Gun" reached Britain's Top 10, and the album Matthew and Son itself began charting. The original version of the The Tremeloes cover hit, "Here Comes My Baby", was written and recorded by Stevens" and the following paragraph.
  • "He recorded on all but two of the succeeding pop music albums Stevens released, and continued performing and recording with him until Stevens' retirement. The two remained friends, however, and years later, when Stevens re-emerged as Yusuf Islam after 27 years, Davies appeared again performing at his side, and has remained there."
  • "In addition, the song, "Pop Star", about his experience as a teen star, and "Katmandu", featuring Genesis frontman Peter Gabriel playing flute, were featured. Mona Bone Jakon was an early example of the solo singer-songwriter album format that was becoming popular for other artists as well."
  • The majority of "#Later Cat Stevens recordings"
  • " Stevens took to it right away, and began to find peace with himself and began his transition to Islam."
  • "Stevens had been seeking inner peace and spiritual answers throughout his career, and now believed he had found what he had been seeking."
  • et al
• Non-free content: there is no substantial critical commentary in the article that justifies the extensive use of song clips—namely, File:Catfirstcut.ogg, File:Cattrouble.ogg, File:Catwildworld.ogg, File:Catfatherandson.ogg, File:Catpeacetrainlive.ogg, File:Catlater.ogg, File:Catseethelightnew.ogg, File:Cattalaaalbadrualayna.ogg, File:Cataisforallah.ogg, etc. Furthermore, many do not have fair use rationales written specifically for this article, or else have rationales for another article, but not this one. Unless information regarding the composition of these songs, reception to illustrated parts, et al is added, they should be removed (WP:NFCC, WP:IUP)
• I'm concerned about the recent news and Muslim activities bias of the article. Everything before it gets around 25 paragraphs (counting the single sentence quasiparagraphs.) Everything at the Muslim conversion section and after is about twice as long (46 paragraphs). I think more info could be added to his early career, and some of the more detailed information about recent albums moved to the respective subarticles, or cut if it already appears there.

I am placing the article on hold for seven days (longer if considerable work is done to address the above issues.) Please keep me appraised on this page. Thanks, Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 17:50, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

As no progress has been made towards the above, I am delisting the article. It may be renominated at WP:GAN at any time, however I stress addressing the above issues. If you have questions on any of the above, please use my talk page. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs^(talk) 16:01, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Title Change

Shouldn't the title be 'Yusuf Islam' since that is his legal name.............