Talk:Heber C. Kimball

Signature Book reference

Moved anon. contribution here until someone can take a look at the book for relevance to Heber C. Kimball. WBardwin 22:52, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

• Smith, George D., editor. The Journals of William Clayton, Signature Books, Salt Lake City, UT, ISBN 1-56085-022-1

checked out reference. Does contain good inforamtion on Heber C. Kimball. restoring to article. WBardwin 05:50, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

HCK as a potter

LDS oriented articles often ignore a person's career or life work in favor of their religious contributions. Many of our early GA's were accomplished in one or more fields and made a living for their families while serving in the church. Should we balance the articles by giving more prominence to the secular work of these men?

A recent edit removed HCKimball from the potters category (one of several professsions he had during his life). I restored him for now. Kimball spoke often about the allegory of the potter and the clay - he knew what he was talking about. Excerpt below:

"How many shapes do you suppose you are put into before you become Saints, or before you become perfect and sanctified to enter into the celestial glory of God? You have got to be like that clay in the hands of the potter. Do you not know that the Lord directed the Prophet anciently, to go down to the potter's house to see a miracle on the wheel? Suppose the Potter takes a lump of clay, and putting it on the wheel, goes to work to form it into a vessel, and works it out this way, and that way, and the other way, but the clay is refractory and snappish; he still trys [tries] it, but it will break, and snap, and snarl, and thus the potter will work it and work it until he is satisfied he cannot bring it into the shape he wants, and it mars upon the wheel; he takes his tool, then, and cuts it off the wheel, and throws it into the mill to be ground over again, until it becomes passive, (don't you think you will go to hell if you are not passive?) and after it is ground there so many days, and it becomes passive, he takes the same lump, and makes of it a vessel unto honor. Now do you see into that, brethren? I know the potters can. I tell you, brethren, if you are not passive you will have to go into that mill, and perhaps have to grind there one thousand years, and then the Gospel will be offered to you again, and then if you will not accept of it, and become passive, you will have to go into the mill again, and thus you will have offers of salvation from time to time, until all the human family, will, except the sons of perdition, are redeemed. The spirits of men will have the Gospel as we do, and they are to be judged according to men in the flesh. Let us be passive, and take a course that will be perfectly submissive.(Journal of Discourses 1: beginning page 160)

WBardwin 05:50, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I think that the discussion of his earlier career in pottery is entirely appropriate in the article, and that someone who had found this article might be interested to know that. But I was thinking in terms of a reader going to the American Potters category. I think that person would expect that the people listed there were people who were well known for their pottery, or else people who are so commonly known that they would be interested to know that person was a potter. HCK doesn't seem to fall in either category. --Paul Stokstad 19:47, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Descendants

Contribution moved here for discussion. Descendants of other LDS General authorities are sometimes listed, but usually when they also were prominent in church service. Should we include the following? WBardwin 05:15, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Natacha Rambova: Kimball was the great grandfather of Natacha Rambova (born Winnifred Shaughnessy), second wife of silent era film star Rudolph Valentino and renowned Hollywood art director.

Yes. She is now listed only as a link in the notable descendents section, which I think is fine. She should be listed, and she is both notable and a descendant, even though she wasn't (apparently) notable for anything related to her LDS heritage. 131.107.0.73 05:03, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Dates of Apostleship

This article has his apostleship ending when he joined the 1st Presidency. This is inconsistant with some other Mormon apostleships are dated. See Gordon B. Hinckley for example. Marion G. Romney and Henry D. Moyle are counter examples. Until there is a box for 1st presidency counselors, I think the apostleship dates ought to include such service. 204.128.230.1 15:06, 9 October 2007 (UTC)