Talk:Commune (intentional community)

Is this a primary topic? I vote that it is definitely not. john k (talk) 17:52, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Additional examples

The current list of notable examples excludes several high-profile groups that were commonly referred to in the media as communes. The ones that immediately come to mind are Jonestown[1], the Manson family and the Branch Davidian ranch at Mount Carmel. Is the reason they are excluded down to their notoriety, or because it is felt that they do not meet the definition of communes? 84.93.161.89 (talk) 20:06, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

The reason for these exclusions, I would argue, has to do with the sensitivity, on the part of present and past members of communes (like myself), as well as supporters of the commune "movement", to past sensationalization of the term commune in the media. In particular, the term "commune" was associated, thanks to mainstream media, with "cult". All three of the examples you give were arguably cults. That they may have had communal structures does not make them good examples of communes, any more than Al Qaeda would be as an example of an Islamic civic organization.

Bloody Viking (talk) 20:17, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Needs extensive work

The above is a good point, plus this article is heavily weighted in favor of the FIC, recent Jacobs Times articles, and a rather promotional POV. Noticeably missing is any history of the Utopian, religious and other separatist communes that formed the bulk of the early modern movement, not to mention any criticisms of the movement as a whole. There are numerous un-sourced statements, needs lots of work on references. I would also note that the Characteristics Section refers specifically to Communities, not communes per se, not sure if that even belongs in this article. I am wondering why the list of notable communes mentions only US communes with one exception. Eroberer (talk) 12:29, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

I would agree with Eroberer. The term "commune" is very general, and could include non-intentional communities, such as a group of people who rent an apartment or house together, and all chip in on food, cooking and house cleaning. I lived at Twin Oaks, and I think intentional communities rock the world, but they should be described in the article on intentional community. This article, on "communes", needs to broadly describe them, and include non-egalitarian communities, religious communities, failed communities, Utopian communities, both historical and present-day, and, yes, even cults. Also, it would be good to discuss the role of communes in the Soviet Union and Communist China, and to clarify the differences between communitarians and Marxists.

Bloody Viking (talk) 20:36, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree all communes are not intentional communities but I think group of people living together is much too broad. I'd like to do a major re-write of this article, for now using Encyclopedia of American communes by Foster Stockwell, pub. 1998 as a main reference. This would define commune basically as an experimental society that rejects the idea of private property. More on that later, I don't want to rely on just one or two sources, however:

You have it reversed. Not all intentional communities are communes. Look at dictionary definitions. An intentional community is a broader term than commune, as it includes housing cooperatives and cohousings. --Campoftheamericas (talk) 00:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

There is a real problem with the source list because there are many citations missing. I would like to retain some of the more scholarly sources but I have not been able to find many of them in libraries or on the web. It would be good if whoever used those sources would provide citations with page numbers, etc. There are many lists in this article and I would like to see it resemble more of an encyclopedic entry, and try to settle the question of what aspects communes share, excluding groups that do not conform to that. Any responses? Eroberer (talk) 11:50, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Change the Lead section

I propose changing the lead thusly:

A commune is a group living arrangement organized chiefly around the principal of non-private property. A commune can range from an informal group house to the People's communes of Communist societies such as China and Korea. They are most often characterized as an attempt to abolish the Capitalist division of society into classes and competition, and instead establish a new social pattern based on a vision of an ideal society. Modern communes generally share common interests, property, resources, work, and income. In addition to the communal economy, consensus decision-making, non-hierarchical structures and ecological living have become important core principles for many communes.

...with citations to follow if necessary. This would be more or less temporary until more work can be done on the article and then would be changed to reflect the contents of same. But I think it's a good introduction for now - any thoughts? Eroberer (talk) 13:22, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

I will also be cleaning up references to intentional communities, as this article is strictly about communes and should not be confusing the two.Eroberer (talk) 15:03, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Except that a commune IS an intentional community: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/intentional+community --Campoftheamericas (talk) 19:29, 22 June 2011 (UTC)