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Shajra e Nasab

SHAJRAH E NASAB OF AOWN QUTAB SHAH WHO IS FROM HAZRAT ABBASS(R.A):' Awon Qutab Shah . Qasim Ali Yallah. Hazrat Hamza Alvi. Hazrat Tayyar Alvi. Hazrat Qasim Alvi. Hazrat Ali Alvi. Hazrat Jaffar Alvi. Hazrat Hamza Awal. Hazrat Hassan. Hazrat Abdullah. Hazrat Abbas Alamdar R A. Hazrat Ali Sher-e-Khuda R A. SHAJRAH E NASAB OF QUTAB HAIDER SHAH WHO IS FROM MUHAMMAD IBN HANAFIYA(R.A):Bold text Qutab haider shah ghazi. Attaullah ghazi. Tahir ghazi. Tayab ghazi. Muhammad ghazi. Umer ghazi. Asif ghazi. Battal ghazi. Abdul manan ghazi. Aon sikandar ghazi. Hazrat Imam muhammad ibn hanafiya. Hazrat Ali(R.A) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.153.148.127 (talk) 14:13, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Response to Zarrigul, The homeland and cultural hotbed of Awan

The user Rawalpindi Express is an urbane gentleman of London belonging to a noble family of Awan, and his good upbringing in London, his higher education of University of London has made his language highly civilized, which you cannot understand and therefore consequently he cannot make you understand. I am a rough hillman and a wild mountaineer of Salt Range, and as the blood of Arab Bedouins flows through my veins, I can make you understand in the pure language of real Awans of today, but as this is a discussion page of Wikipedia, I’ll tell you in the language of Wikipedia.

To start with, what is our subject? Awan. What is “Awan” ?, Awan is a name of a tribe. What is a tribe? , the word ‘tribe’ means a community of blood. The more compact the community, the more compact the tribe. Where can we find this compact community? We can find it in the mainhomeland of this tribe.

The main homeland and cultural hotbed of real and original Awan tribe is not Pindi Gheb, Attock. Sargodha, Chakwal, and other districts but Salt Range. The more center of Salt Range you will go, the more real Awan as a blood of community, you will find. I’ll discuss the nature and authenticity of British administrators, writers, census reports, Imperial Gazetteer, District Gazetteers, later on, here are some reliable source material for Wikipedia policy, so;

“They are essentially a tribe of the Salt Range, where they once held independent possessions of very considerable extent, and in the western and central portions of which they are still the dominant race.” (The Imperial Gazetteer of India, Vol. 7, p. 170), "The home of the Awan in the Panjab is the Salt Range", The Panjab, North-West Frontier Province and Kashmir - James Douie Page 105. "The best of the Musalman tribes comes from thje Salt range".The Armies of India By A. C. Lovett, Major, Gf Macmunn, Page 141 "Salt Range was the main habitat of Awans". History of the Sikh gurus: a comprehensive study by Surjit Singh Gandhi p.2.

"They settled about 1035, AD in the Peshawar district, and eventually became possessed of the Salt Range country." A short history of the Sikhs by Charles Herbert Payne - 1970, p.234

Awans are said to have settled in the mountains in the centre of what is now Soon Valley and Sakesar, Salt Range. Later on some of them withdrew to neighbourhood of Salt Range. They occupied more prosperous plains and open plateaux. Some of them withdrew to west of Salt Range and setteled at Kalabh. (The Imperial Gazetteer of India, Vol. 14, P290 ) Some of them withdrew to North and settled and founded a town Talagang. According to the Imperial Gazetteer of India, (The Imperial Gazetteer of India, Vol. 08, P162) it was founded by an Awan chieftain, about the year 1625. It has ever since remained the seat of local administration under the Awans, the Sikh, and the British. One branch of the tribe withdrew to the east of Salt Range near Jehlum.(The Imperial Gazetteer of India, Vol. 07, P170) Other branch withdrew to the south of the range and settled at the north of Shahpur. With the passage of time and the force of economic pressure, they then spread from that region into Mianwali, Chakwal, Camelpur now Attock, Mianwali, Jehlum, Sargodha, Rawalpindi, lahore Gujrat and all parts of Punjab.

So far as the Awan of Jalandhar are concerned, Ibbetson, D states in his book Punjab Castes, that the Awans of Jalandhar claimed that their ancestors served in the armies of the Slave Dynasty and the Khilji dynasty during the Delhi Sultanate period, who brought them from the Salt-range.(“The Jalandhar Awans state that they came into that district as followers of one of the early Emperors of Delhi who brought them with him from the Salt-range; and it is not impossible that they may have accompanied the forces of Babur. Many of them were in former times in the imperial service at Delhi, keeping up at the same time their connection with their Jalandhar homes.” Ibbetson, D., 2001, Punjab Castes, Sang-e-Meel Publications, p.170.)

So, instead of giving advice to Rawalpindi Express, to go to Kalabagh, (I’ll discuss the Awans of Kalabagh later on) Please go yourself to center of Salt range and capital of Soon Valley, "Naushera" (of which Sir Lepel Henry Griffin, writes in his book "Chiefs of Punjab", that "In.... Naoshera (Naushera) .... where the head of the tribe still resides.") Khabeki, Kufri, Kund, Murdwal, Uchala, Sodhi, Khewra, Anga, you will find the real Awans and their customs, and traditions.

There you will find that the whole structure of the tribe stands on the tribal genealogies of the Awans of this area, and the divisions of their sub clans by adding the suffix ‘al’ to the names of their ancestors, e.g., Khairal, “Sons of ‘Khair Muhammad’, Latifal, ‘sons of Muhammad Latif, etc. Every Awan is recognized by his ‘Mahala’ street named after his great ancestor plus suffix ‘al’. Mahala Mehral, named after Meher Ali. Every Awan of Naushera of Salt Range knows that he is a descendant of Hazrat Qutb Shah Awn ibn Ya‘lā through his grandson Hazrat Ahmad Ali Badr ud Din’ elder son Hazrat Saned ul Ulema, and he also knows that his distant cousins of Khabeki are desendants of Badr ud Din’ other son Hazrat Toor, and so on. A complete family tree of whole branch of Awans of Khabeki has been given in this small book. To quote your favorite author Sir Olif caroe, "These tribal tables, or shajras as they are called in Islamic lore, do represent something real. They in fact reflect what these tribes themselves still believe to be their origin and cousinship, one to another, and they sort out and categorize racial, and other affinities and differences which can be traced today"

Instead of seeing you tube videos of marriages of Maliks of other districts, go and visit the marriage ceremony of real Awans of Salt Range, there you will find that the marriages are still arranged according to the Islamic traditions and wedding ceremony usually takes place at the mosques. Being as a tribe of Arabs origin, the local people follows Islamic culture and traditions. Unlike the other parts of Punjab where most people follow the Indian form of the marriage ceremony. So there is no concept of dance of any kind in pure and noble families of Awan.

To be continued Averroist (talk) 23:02, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Averriost you tried well but no successful . I have been there and i know the culture and languges of Pakistan. May be you don't hadve chance to attend a marriage so i paste few links from the area you mentioned without culture.

Soon valley Dance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMw2PgNjJfA&feature=related

Padrahr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5jN73tzBOg&feature=related

Khushab music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gXwgq886CE Khattak Jhomer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eg1wyrePJI Awans from Mianwali http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK6wd7wuFwg&feature=related Zarrigul (talk) 19:15, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Now you check this culture resembles with pashtuns and Baluch's or Sikhs? It is perfect time that you go to soon valley to see the real culture of Awans. Regards zarrigul

Thanks,Dear Zarrigul, for your polite comments, despite my rude behaviour. I didnt finish my arguments. I wrote that "So there is no concept of dance of any kind in pure and noble families of Awan." It is better to read some good books, than to see the dance. Please read "Tarikh Mushaikh Chesht" A history of Sufis (saints) of Chisti order. Do You know who was Khawaja Shams ud din Sialvi of Sial Sharif. Pir Meher Ali Shah, Pir Jalalpur Sharif and all other leading Pirs of Punjab were his disciples. You can imagine the greatness of his derbar. He was also an Awan and he used to conduct Qawwali and Sama, when Qazi Sultan Mahmood of Anga came to know, he was angry and forbade the use of sufi music, and it was the greatness of Khawaja Shams ud din Sialvi who respected the Qazi. Similarly, Qazi Mian Muhammad of Naushera also forbade sufi music. If this is the position of great sufis, what is the position of ordinary true Awan.

With regard to your comments, "May be you don't hadve chance to attend a marriage so i paste few links from the area you mentioned" it is humbly stated that, we the noble Awans do not make videos of our marriages, and even cannot think of uploading on internet. Salam Averroist (talk) 22:20, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Salam. Strange to see diviion of Awan's into "nobles" and "Kammi".It is really heart breaking. If you forgive me for my straight farwardness. Is it not hypocratic and rascist statement? Music you consider unislamic but you forget islamic teaching of equal rights for every one. considering few people as noble and others inferior is not unislamic? Every Army Soldier have to perform drill on drum beats while brass band play it's tunes what about that? Our folk dances are merely a kind of martial arts and the way of physical excercises and mostly per war muscle excercise . if you like i can tell you ludi, ghummer, dhress, sammi or barballa and Bhangra helps to strengthen which part of body and better in result as compare to a gym. i was expecting you let us know whether Awan's of your area hve the following customs : 1.to break choonrri with right leg and of "gharroli" during weddings? 2.to put a latern st night on place (40 days) where a person of family lasts its breaths. 3.to through blood on doors for some occassions. 4.to through blood on vehical tires when it take dead body to village? 5.to through water towards house "parnala" on saturday evening

regards Zarrigul (talk) 06:37, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

I did not use the word 'Kammi', and there are no kammis in Awans of Salt Range, because the nature of land in this area is "Barani". You claim that you know the languages and culture of this area. So far as noble are concerned, the concept is different in various socities. The nobles of ancient Rome took pride in fighting war, but the nobles of India, Berhaman, gave this job to the inferior class. Similarly the nobles of Europe feel no hesitation in dance, but the Muslim nobility of India considers this as a great shame.

So far as the nobility of Awans of Salt Range is concerned, a poor Awan of Khabeki is a noble AWAN if his name is included in the detailed tribal Genealogical table of Awans of Khabeki, and a poor Awan of Kufri is also a noble if the name of his great great grand father is mentioned in Land Revenue Settlements. Though reduced to poverty, the descendants of great Awans are still respected as a native nobility and aristocracy. I consider these poor Awans as noble Awans, as compare to rich new Awans, who make videos of dance and then upload to youtube.

Averroist (talk) 10:31, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

I am waiting the hear from you for location of salt range.(from where it start and where it ends). We are in 21st century and Today every young boy is keeping color mobile with camera. so making videos of marriages become common how ever still no one let others to picturize females. Zarrigul (talk) 14:14, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Good, it is better that you should measure your own area, so far as my area is concerned, the Salt Range extends from the Jhelum River to the Indus, across the northern portion of the Punjab province. Please click this link In this link you will note that Khushab is almost south of center of Salt Range. Now click this link and please see which are the towns and villages in the Salt Range. Cheers

Averroist (talk) 16:12, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

@Averroist some problem with your information. Salt Range Starts From Khewrra Tehsil Pind dadan khan District Jehlum and mine here is considered biggest of the salt mines of the world . It moves from east towards west when it reach dirstrict khushab limits , turn toward north west . Indus river have divided salt range in 2 parts (east and west). West part ends at Banda Daud Shah District Karak. http://paleopolis.rediris.es/cg/CG2009_BOOK_03/CG2009_BOOK_03_Chapter06.pdf As Salt range extends east to west so how to mark it limits towards north and south ? if we just consider the mine then khushab is at far south of mine and to implement this rule we have to extend the equal miles in north direction. Another question that salt range is physically shared by Janjua(khewrra), Awan, Niazi and khattak tribes. So to consider salt range to a one tribe would be incorrect. Khewrra and Danda Daud shah mine information is available on net for confirmation. Alamsherkhan (talk) 14:14, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Response to claim of Hashmi origin

claim of Arab origin starts geting attention during colonial rule( which is difficult to verify from old history books) but laterly got multiplied and used by other historians as evidence. This baseless claim have a lot of contradictions (for meaning of title, appoinment as governor of Herat, marriage with Ghaznavi sister, 2-3 fake family tree which even nullify each other.The theory that all Awan's are decendants of Qutab Shah is worst form of exaggeration. Today Awan population is exceeding 4 Million. If we apply same growth rate for other communities of the region that make a different picture of world population in year when Ghanavi was preparing his first offensive to India. How to believe that population of Khorasan including Iran , Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Qazikistan, kyrghistan and Uzbikistan was less than 300 count of head. then from where he arranged his army? if we apply the same growth rate for Pashtun and Baluch who came alongwith Awan's then today Baluch of Pakistan are succesors of 20 Soldiers and Pashtun living at Pakistan are Successors of 70 Soldier. This seems a miracle that 100 soldiers (10+20+70) successfully kept the control on newly occupied areas for a century or more till Muhammad of Ghaur conquest. Awan's are still keeping a lot of living evidences in their customs which does not show resemblance with Arab culture. Awan's living in different parts of Punjab and KPK have wedding customs like breaking "choonrri" (like soccer made of mud, mostly it is used to cover water pot) by leg in wedding. "Gharoli" , "Rangoli" keeping lattern at a place where some one have his last breath, throughing blood at door step at different occasions . another evidence which proves that Awan's are not of Arab origin as they kept their preIslamic names till 20th century. Quraish origin conspirency is also used for baluch and Pashtuns tribes (as some sources claim that Pashtun's successors of Hazrat Khalid bin walid which is not correct).

A lot of families living in Pakistan claim to be "Sayyed" but for many matters there are different fom Awan's for the following reasons:- 1. Sayyed's dont marry their daughters to non Sayyeds but Awan's dont follow this practice 2. Sayyed Female usually strict for Parda and dont take active part in the family financial affairs in the past but Awan female are active earning partners of family in agriculture and live stock. 3. Non of a Sayyed family have this much major population in the area like Awan have. 4. "Sayyed" mostly focused to work as preacher/religious leaders/Saints but Awan's in majority chose to survive as Soldiers/agriculture workers.

Awan's Migration from Afghansinstan is almost agreed by majority of Historians. In such case sure they may be having cousin tribes at Afghanistan.Similarly as Niazi's, and Baluch have their cousin tribes at Afghanistan. Most of the Historians used ending name of Qutab Shah as evidence for his Hashmi origin but Shah was common ending name among persians, Khorasanians (Today Afghanistan)and Turks. like we find family od Shahhan e- Kabal in pre-Islam History. So ending name is not a valid logic to prove them Hashmi

Awan's living any where at Pakistan speaks Hindko. In all the district where they are in majority their dialect is same. They still keep some of the words from their original language which other punjabi speaking tribes dont use, like prayer timings Paishe, deegar ,shami, Kuftaan. I was surprised to see the Muslims of chinese origin from Gansu Province using these words like, paishen, jeegar , shamo, and Kuften. these four prayer timing in Pashtun also spoken a bit similar like maz-pashen , maz-deegar , Ma-shom and Mas-khoten. Mas/maz seems derived from nmaz (prayer) which got added by Pashtuns. Pashtuns and Awans pres-Islamic names are same like Faqir khan, Sher khan , Fateh khan etc , their customs/culture are same. It does not support the common Believe that persian was the spoken language of Awan's before migration another link which got missed by historians in the past. Because most of muslim tribe came to india with sultan Muhammad Ghori so without any research they were made to write as natives of Ghore. At Faryab province of Afghanistan there is district Indkai which seems to be place of origin of Awan's before migration to today's Pakistan. Pashtuns who migretted alongwith Awan's call them indki or indkai. which mostly ae mis-spelled with Hindki or Hindko by historians which make a confusion. Comments in article by Special:Contributions/Zarrigul moved to article talk page. --Shirt58 (talk) 12:16, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

The story of Arab/ Hashmi origin circles around Qutab Shah or Qutab Haider. Who said to got married with sister of Sultan Mehmood. Whereas commonly It is difficult for a soldier to get marry with king's daughter or Sister. A known military leader could have access to the family of King and some timeit is required to strengthen the rule. Furthermore keeping in view of Ghaznavi's religious behaviour to Ismaili Shia Sect, it seems impossible. The perception that Qutab Haider being common soldier got overlooked by Historians seems baseless when we find that Abu Hasan Mamun from khewarzm married Ghaznavi's sister during year 1015 . Still there are a lot of Issues regarding Qutab shah and Qutab Haider to discuss. if they both came with Mehmood ghaznavi then why their population today dont show equal to each other? another important point to keep in mind that what time they arrived Herat? Exactly when Mehmood was preparing his army to invade India or they got settled at Herat long time ago. if they were living at Herat Since a long then their population at Afghanistan must 3-4 times or much more as compare to Awan's populations at Pakistan . This story never convinced me and I feel that Qutab Shah or Qutab Haider is a character of purposely implanted story. I totally agree with Mr. Zarri Gul Calulations I can't Imagin that a country with total population of 180 human being were needing 30,000 camels to invade and conquer a country having total population of 3290 Human being? No way but we have to accept that there is something wrong with story of Qutab Shah/ Qutab Haider and 30,000 Camels as well.

History is silent regarding thousands of Soldiers(prisnor of War) who Mehmood Ghaznavi take to Afghanistan as slaves. Whether they converted to Islam or got adopted in Afghan tribes and if we apply the same growth rate on prisoners of war turned salves what pictures comes out? .

Alamsherkhan (talk) 18:30, 28 July 2011 (UTC)