Talk:Earl of Oxford

Biography: Peerage and Baronetage Start‑class

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Peerage and Baronetage.
	An appropriate infobox may need to be added to this article. Please refer to the list of biography infoboxes for further information.

England Unassessed

	England portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EnglandWikipedia:WikiProject EnglandTemplate:WikiProject EnglandEngland-related
???	This article has not yet received a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Untitled

What does it mean "the title is dormant but not extinct"? And my recollection is that the objections to Asquith being made Earl of Oxford came from the Harleys, not the de Veres. Adam 09:30, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It has remainder to heirs male whatsoever, i.e. in default of male heirs of the 1st Earl, it goes to the male heirs of his father, and then to those of his father's father, etc., ad infinitum. As such, somewhere in the world there is a rightful Earl of Oxford of the 1142 creation, but we have absolutely no viable way of finding out who it is. As to the objections, I think you're right — my recollection is that the de Veres objected to Harley's creation, and the Harleys in turn objected to Asquith's creation. Proteus (Talk) 19:27, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If the rightful Earl at any point was also King of England (or its successors), then the peerage is extinguished. —Tamfang (talk) 18:00, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It would follow from what you say about the original peerage, that if there were any extant de Veres, they would be able to claim the title, so it would seem there aren't any (except the character in To the Manor Born). Adam 00:22, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It dates from before the time when surnames were fixed. Aristocrats of that period often changed their names when they moved or acquired new land (so a 11th century de Vere could move to Anytown and change his name to de Anytown). This means that there's not even any way of finding out the rightful Earl of Oxford's surname, let alone who he is. Proteus (Talk) 09:07, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

On the matter of the surname "de Vere" or "Vere" I suggest adding a pronounciation note to this article or the one titled "de Vere Family." It is my understanding that the V is pronounced as a W. 72.179.53.2 (talk) 00:17, 31 December 2012 (UTC) Eric[reply]

The V is not pronounced as a W because it is an English surname only derived from a continental European place name in the very distant past. That place is not known, although it is likely to be Vire in western Normandy. DeAragon 06:10, 15 January 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dearagon (talk • contribs)

Is there even any clear evidence that there aren't any male line descendants of the 1st Earl? I mean, he lived in the 12th century, one would imagine it wouldn't be hard for some descendants to go missing. And if it's only male-line descendants of paternal ancestors of the 1st Earl who are under consideration, there is no reason to think that the "rightful earl" will have ever borne the surname "de Vere." john k 07:33, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Duke of Atholl 1913

The Duke of Atholl was a petitioner for the Earldom of Oxford in 1913. I thought his petition went ahead? There were several co-heirs for this title, and that of the Barony of Latymer. George de Vere's eldest daughter Dorothy married John, the 3rd Lord Latymer. Dorothy's brother John, the 13th Earl of Oxford d.s.p.'d in 1526. The Duke of Atholl took his line from Dorothy's grand-daughter Katherine, who married the Earl of Northumberland. The geneology showing this was published in "In the House of Lords. Barony of Latymer. Case of Francis Coutts; of Stoodleigh, Tiverton, in the County of Devon, esq., together with pedigrees, appendix, and documents relating to the preliminary proceedings." ixo (talk) 09:23, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why "Mortimer" by the way? Harley's page offers no clue. —Tamfang 18:54, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"The family seat is The Manor House, near Frome, Somerset." Which family? The present tense suggests Asquith, but ... —Tamfang 18:54, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]