Talk:List of tallest buildings

HONG KONG IS NOT A COUNTRY BUT A CITY OF CHINA

Hong Kong is not a country but a city of China, so under "COUNTRY" you should write CHINA.--79.144.102.242 (talk) 02:19, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

I added a header to separate your new question from the previous one. Astronaut (talk) 16:36, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

This has been discussed many times before and will probably be discussed many more times too (see Talk Page Archive 3 for the last time it happened on this page). Occasionally some Chinese nationalist with a point to prove will convert all mention of "Hong Kong" to add "Peoples Republic of China" or the PRC flag. A short while later a Hong Kong nationalist will change it back and so an edit war will start. It'll go back and forth a few times, everyone's time will be wasted, and nothing will get decided. Eventually one side will lose patience and get themselves blocked from editing or will give up entirely. What is slightly unusual this time is the half-hearted attempt. If you are going to start this kind of thing, try to do a proper job and don't leave the article inconsistant. Astronaut (talk) 16:36, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

The problem here isn't the Chinese nationalists, but the HKG nationalists with a point to prove (see below). --IJBall (talk) 17:09, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

I am from SPAIN, and I have never been in China, but it is OBVIOUS that if you write "TALLEST BUILDINGS BY COUNTRY", then the word used has to be CHINA, not Hong Kong which is just a Chinese city as anybody knows. Whatever people say is not relevant as far as facts are taken into account. Hong Kong is right now a city of CHINA. That is out of discussion.--88.1.244.26 (talk) 17:51, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
You can solve the problem easily writing about the tallest buildings in the World just by CITY, not by country. Otherwise it is ridiculous, because then you would have to write NEW YORK....Country: NEW YORK. It is not a question of debate that Hong Kong is part of China as everybody knows it is, and as any serious Encyclopedia says.--88.1.244.26 (talk) 17:55, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps you should read all the previous discussions (on this page's talk archives, and other pages too). As I said, it has been discussed at great length with no clear consensus. Astronaut (talk) 19:59, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

...and please do not vandalise the article by removing column headings. Astronaut (talk) 20:03, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

You should read an Encyclopedia to know where is Hong Kong...--193.152.161.116 (talk) 04:43, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Of course we all know where Hong Kong is - an island just off the coast of China, was part of the British Empire until 1997 and is now a Special Administrative Region of the Peoples Republic of China which operates under One country, two systems. Just saying this has been discussed many, many times before and no clear consensus has come out of it for this article or any other article. Astronaut (talk) 12:35, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

But even you agree that there is no discussion about the COUNTRY: CHINA. That is out of discussion.--79.146.242.195 (talk) 03:45, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

The appropriate solution is to change to column heading from "Country" to "Country/Region" (or "Country/Area") then, if editors on this page want to leave the HKG flag up. Because most of the posters to this thread are in fact correct - if the column heading is just "Country", then the flag must China's, by definition (i.e. List of sovereign nations). --IJBall (talk) 17:09, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

That is a poor solution. Adding region will invite discussion as what is a "region", and we really don't want to fix this problem with Hong Kong by creating a bigger problem where people add New York, or New York City. I've reverted you change until consensus can be reached. Astronaut (talk) 13:28, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Astronaut, understood, but it is worth pointing out that this is how at least one other Wiki page (e.g. List of countries by tax rates) handles this issue - a legend can always be added to the top of the page defining what the column heading means. But I'm strongly of the opinion that either the column heading says "Country" so than China must be listed (by definition, from List of sovereign states), or if editors want HKG listed then some "modifier" must be placed on the column heading (e.g. "Country/Region", or something similar to that). Another possible compromise would be to leave "Country" as the heading, and go with something like "PRC, HKG" or "PRC (HKG)" or whatever will work so that sorting is not "broken". --IJBall (talk) 18:42, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Hong Kong is not a sovereign state but it is a country for international comparisons: whether you're discussing countries of origin of goods, or making travel plans to different countries, or comparing GDP or similar. See country for the definition. As an example Scotland and Wales are considered to be countries but have far less autonomy and independence than Hong Kong.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 18:52, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

John, the List of sovereign states controls this issue - if you're on that list, you're a "country"; if you're not on that list, you're something else. Any other interpretation would, to my mind, violate WP:Neutral point of view. And, otherwise, yes, places like Wales and Scotland would require their own entries as well. Now, if people want to leave HKG on this list, that's fine. But, if they do, the column heading can't read just "country" - it'll have to read something else. That's the fair compromise. --IJBall (talk) 19:16, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Back to Astronaut: would "Country/Territory" be a preferable column heading solution to you? --IJBall (talk) 17:37, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

I really have no solution to offer. I just know that changing the column header could create a problematic situation; and that whatever you put next to Hong Kong, somebody won't be happy and will eventually come here and change it. The archive on this talk page and the talk page of many similar articles is testament to the difficulty with this issue. Most involved editors eventually come to the same feeling as me, that the issue will never be resolved an would rather just try their best to minimise the disruption such edit wars cause. Astronaut (talk) 23:11, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

FTR, that is exactly what I am trying to do here. The original posters to this thread are correct - "Country" is a word with a very specific connotation. The best solution to allow for the inclusion of HKG, while still not antagonizing the PRC crew, would seem to be to add some word "qualifier" to "Country". Otherwise, if left as "Country", I'm going to have to come down on the side of excluding HKG, on the grounds of word meaning and WP:Neutral point of view.

If no further objections are leveled here, I'd like to change that column heading to "Country/Territory", so that this page can craft a solution similar to the List of countries by tax rates. --IJBall (talk) 23:23, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

But country is appropriate precisely as it's unspecific. The specific term for e.g. a UN member would be sovereign state. Sovereign states are also called countries but they're not the same thing. Country is much broader and less specific so appropriate here. I've already mentioned Scotland and Wales; another country that appears in this list but is not a sovereign state is Taiwan, and there are many more.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 00:15, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

First, Wikipedia is not a dictionary, so what the preamble says on the country page is probably not relevant. Second, as is clear even from the Wikipedia entry on country there is a strong correlation with "sovereign state" (e.g. the whole latter part of that article). (Taiwan is a very special case, completely unique, even in the List of sovereign states... Meanwhile, Scotland and Wales are not included in this table, so not sure they're relevant.) Again, in my view, leaving the column heading as "Country" is unnecessarily antagonistic (and is a very one-sided "resolution" to the issue), and seems to be an attempt to confer on HKG status it doesn't have. Finally, what are you going to say when someone invokes "One country, two systems" here. Again, the appropriate solution is some kind of compromise column heading, a la List of countries by tax rates. --IJBall (talk) 00:53, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

You are right, WP is not a dictionary, but that is meant primarily to exclude articles that consist only of definitions of words. WP is an encyclopaedia, with articles on topics, not words. But that does not make it less accurate. Parts of country concerns sovereign states but only parts as you note – that's not the only meaning. As for one country, two systems it's a direct translation of the chengyu 一国两制, a slogan devised by the communist leadership, so is both POV and loses a lot in translation and so certainly not a useful guide as to how to use words in English.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 01:18, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Including HKG under "country" is a clear POV issue as well. Hence the need for a compromise. --IJBall (talk) 01:24, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

THE HEIGHT(m) DOES NOT SORT PROPERLY

When I clicked to sort by height in metres, it sorted the values alphanumerically!! It starts at 1001, 1002 .... 2073, 2717, 790 .... 995, 997 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Byron3 60 (talk • contribs) 15:32, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

It is fixable, but is not a simple task. A workaround would be to sort on the rank column, since the list is already ranked in height order. Astronaut (talk) 17:43, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Central America

Marcos: Central America is not considered a continent, by any of the common definitions, rather it is considered a subcontinent, though I note that our article does not actually list the various subcontinents. Is it possible that because Latin Americans are taught that "America" is one continent, the division of "America" into North, Central, and South American seems no odder than the division into only North and South America? Certainly to English speakers, the idea of Central America as a continent seems rather odd.

Regardless, I don't really care, since I personally think that treating "Europe" and "Asia" as two continents is pretty silly, however I would ask that you move it after Australia, as Central America is geographically smaller than Oz even if you include Chiapas, Tabasco, and the Yucatan. —Quintucket (talk) 21:10, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Do you guys really learn in the US that someone born in Panama or Honduras is "North-American"? WOW! Here we are definitely not taught that the Americas are 1 continent; rather, we learn that there are 8 continents in this world: Africa, Europe, Asia, South America, North America, Central America, Antarctica and Oceania. We also learn that North America is composed of Mexico, Canada and the US. I guess in the US they just say that there are 3 continents: Afro-Eurasia, America and Australia. MarcosPassos (talk) 04:24, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, neither the Continent nor Subcontinent artices mention Central America. There is a little discussion of this in Boundaries between continents#North and South America, but it still doesn't say Central America is a continent or subcontinent. I have therefore reverted its addition again. Astronaut (talk) 20:17, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Floor area

Why isn't the floor area shown? this is a critical measure of how big a tall building actually is. The list for record floor area buildings is largely populated by flat strutctures or large buildings that are not very tall, so this would be a good place for that information to compare the "largest" skyscrapers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:4C28:194:520:5E26:AFF:FEFE:8624 (talk) 08:31, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

I did intend to add floor area when I completely revamped the lists. Unfortunately work took over my life and I never got around to the revamp. It would be a useful addition.

You might find the List of largest buildings in the world useful. Astronaut (talk) 00:57, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Omission

There is no mention of the tallest building in Oceania - Sky Tower in Auckland, New Zealand - which, at 328m, is 6m taller than the Gold Coast's Q1 Tower. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Motorhussy (talk • contribs) 21:20, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

That is because of the distinction between buildings and towers. Sky Tower is an observation tower and is there therefore excluded from this list which is only for buildings - ie. structures with a continuous set of occupiable floors. It is correctly listed at #25 on List of tallest towers in the world. Astronaut (talk) 00:22, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

One World Trade Center: Spire or Antenna?

Should the communication antenna on the One World Trade Center (OWTC) be considered a spire and therefore an architectural element, or should it be considered a pure antenna? This is a relevant question because antennas are not considered in measuring the height of a building for the purpose of this wiki article.

I am not sure that we should include the antenna/spire in the architectural height of OWTC, judging from these photos: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:OneWorldTradeCenter.jpg and https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:One_WTC_7.5.13.JPG

What do you think? Fire away please. DonitzLiebt (talk)

It's not what I think. The CTBUH has judged it to be a spire, so the building gets to keep its 1776 ft height - see this. Astronaut (talk) 13:45, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Edit Request

Moshe Aviv tower is not located in Tel Aviv, but in Ramat Gan. 93.172.62.208 (talk) 09:19, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

CN Tower in toronto is well above 500 M. ?????? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.56.144.111 (talk) 00:35, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

 Done - thanks for pointing that out

Semi-protected edit request on 13 February 2014

The CN Tower in Toronto, Ontario is not listed on here at all, it is still very high up there on the list. Although in the Wiki Page for CN Tower it lists as tallest building in Western civilization. This list is inaccurate.

64.56.144.111 (talk) 00:37, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Yeah I'm not good at editing Wikipedia, plus I have a whole bunch of other stuff going on, but the CN Tower needs to be on this list!