Talk:Boeing 727

USPS

The USPS does not own any aircraft and has not for many years.

So any aircraft depicted with USPS livery are leased from GECAS or ILFC or the like?00:17, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

High sink rate accidents and "Pilot's Airliner"

I'm a bit surprised at your enthusiasm for reverting these additions. With a few hours work I'm sure I can come up with some cites, but is it really worth it? What I stated is and has been known by professional pilots for 30 years and, IMHO scarcely qualifies as original research on my part. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grumpyoldgeek (talk • contribs) 18:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:No original research, sorry! —Reedy 19:43, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Read what I said.Grumpyoldgeek (talk) 02:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

has been known by .. sounds like original research. You need to ensure that the information comes from a reliable source and also is notable enough for inclusion. 192.54.144.229 (talk) 11:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Here is a thread on a professional pilot's forum that I initiated to discuss the issue. Please advise if and how this can be incorporated into the B727 page.

pprune.org B727 sinkrate accident discussion Grumpyoldgeek (talk) 00:06, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

That site requires log in to view. Sorry, forum pages are not considered reliable sources anyway. I did internet searches for 727 and pilot's airliner and could not find anything. See if you can find a reliable book or article that states the 727 is pilot friendly or something along those lines. -Fnlayson (talk) 01:06, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I guess we have a dilemma. There are no "reliable sources" that I can find, yet there is a rich and colorful story here. The plane was nearly grounded because of 5 fatal crashes in the first 6 months of introduction, yet there's no mention on the wiki page. If you are really interested in a full and accurate description of the aircraft, this part of its history needs to be told. The fact that there is not a reliable source doesn't change the history. The login for pprune is trivial to do. If you or anyone else are serious about researching this, contact me at jstewart@jkmicro.com and I'll get you a username and password to the forum. 168.150.253.55 (talk) 01:52, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

A forum is fine for personal enrichment, but it's content is not allowable on Wikipedia. We're not making this up - it's Wikipedia policy! If it's a story that needs telling, write a book, get it published by a reputable publisher, then we can cite it. Alternativley, contact an aerospace or aviation magazine, and if they do an article on the story, then we can use that. Sounds like the kind of story Air & Space Smithsonian likes to publish, but there are other magazines out there too that might be interested.

As far as 5 fatal crashes in the first six months, it might take some work to find them, but I'm sure there were stories written in newspapers or magazines at that time. They would be fine to source the accidents and investigations, and a number of publishers have online archives going back pretty far, so it might not be that dificult to do. - BillCJ (talk) 04:00, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I looked through a couple of my books. The closet thing I can find to "pilot's airliner" is "The 727-200 remains popular with passengers and pilots ..." from The International Directory of Civil Aircraft copy here. That's not quite the same thing. I added an Incidents and accident summary like on the Boeing 737, 767 and other airliner pages. -Fnlayson (talk) 04:28, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I did not realize the article didn't have an "Incidents and accident"! That certainly can be expanded, and there may already be some accident articles about 727 accidents on WP which can easily be summarized. Also, there are Wikipedians who are experienced in researching FAA accident databases and other sources who would probably be willing to help out. I'm sorry that I didn't realize there were no accidents covered at all! They do still need proper sources, but that should be relatively easy to fix. - BillCJ (talk) 05:10, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

It didn't seem right to me that this article doesn't have a Accident section for such a notable aircraft, so I checked the Article History, and I found it! Per this diff, it looks liek I accidently lost the section while attempting to undo some vandalism! Anyway, I've restored it mostly whole, but there are items that need to be sourced. I also cut back the lengthy Salt Lake City 1965 accident, as it has its own article. - BillCJ (talk) 05:31, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

For what it is worth at this late date, here are the first 5 crashes of 727s:

1965

• August 16 – United Airlines Flight 389, a Boeing 727, crashes into Lake Michigan at night, after the pilots apparently misread their altimeters; all 24 passengers and six crew perish in the first fatal crash of the Boeing 727.

• November 8 – American Airlines Flight 383, a Boeing 727, crashes while on approach to Greater Cincinnati airport; of the 62 people on board, one flight attendant and three passengers survive.

• November 11 – United Airlines Flight 227, a Boeing 727, crashes short of the runway during landing at Salt Lake City International Airport, Utah; 43 of 91 aboard are killed.

1966

• February 4 – All Nippon Airways Flight 60, a Boeing 727-100, crashes into Tokyo Bay, Japan; all 133 aboard are killed in Japan's worst air disaster at that time.

• November 15 – Pan Am Flight 708, a Boeing 727, crashes near Berlin, Germany; all three crew members are killed.

Note that the time spread is about 15 months, not 6 months as speculated above. 65.37.66.238 (talk) 09:51, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

True but potentially misleading.....4 out the 5 were within a 6 month framework. The Number of incidents should be questioned rather than the date range. And "speculated" is both inaccurate and potentially insulting. 122.107.58.27 (talk) 01:16, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Military usage in Colombia

The Boeing 727 is used as a cargo plane by the Colombian Air Force can someone correct the military operators? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.118.135.111 (talk) 13:52, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

There needs to be a valid reference supporting that, such as a Colombian Air Force page listing the Boeing 727. -Fnlayson (talk) 14:04, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Colombian Air Force (SATENA) 727s have been withdrawn from use or scrapped (FAC1145 727-95F #19393, FAC1246 727-95F #19595, FAC1247 727-2B7 #20303). MilborneOne (talk) 16:45, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Max. Tank Capacity in Litres?

How many liters is 100.000 lb jet fuel? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.97.50.196 (talk) 21:43, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Mexicana-LAX-radar.jpg

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• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --06:06, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Rough Airstrip Use

Added a paragraph under Operational History about the 727's use on rough air strips (using First Air as an example). Not sure where the best place to put this, but the high mounted engines do make the aircraft a good candidate for gravel and/or ice runways. I have flown the flight from YRB to YOW myself, and know that First Air continues to use the aircraft on this route. Hans Johnson 194.137.210.183 (talk) 19:59, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Passenger capasity

The article does not state the passenger capasity of the aeroplane. This should be added by someone who knows it. Hkultala (talk) . —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hkultala (talk • contribs) 18:32, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Have you looked in the specification section under Max seating capacity ? MilborneOne (talk) 19:03, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok, seems to be there.. tried to search with a word "passenger". Hkultala (talk) 22:25, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

MTSU 727

I'm curious whether or not anyone things that it is worth mention that Middle Tenn state university has a 727 that was donated by Fedex to the aerospace program. Reg N117FE. It however is stuck at Murfreesboro mun airport. I've been told that that for 2 reasons 1st the runway is too short and that the plane exceedes the max weight that they belie the runway and taxiways can support --T18 (talk) 15:38, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

What use did/does MTSU plan for this Boeing 727; for exhibit, training, or other? The part about it being stuck at the airport is too detailed for this article. Maybe for Middle Tennessee State University though with a proper reference. -Fnlayson (talk) 15:54, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

As far as i know its used for exhibt and i've heard the maintance program uses it in some way.--T18 (talk) 21:50, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

The aircraft is mentioned in the MTSU wiki article. An entry on it could go in an Aircraft on display section. The college got it in 2002 and at that time planned it for training use according to newsletter and record. -Fnlayson (talk) 23:41, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Suggest combining two parts of article

It seems to me that the second paragraph under "Noise" and the last paragraph under "Operational history" say largely the same thing. Since both paragraphs concern the reasons for the aircraft's retirement, I think they should be combined under "Operational history". Thoughts? Carguychris (talk) 18:21, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Good point. I moved the 2nd paragraph in the Noise section down to the Operational history section. Rework/combine them if want. Thanks. -Fnlayson (talk) 18:36, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

727 operators list

US Airways used to use a large number of both 727 100's and 727 200's, back when they were called both Allegany Airlines, and US Air. I believe that Mohawk Airlines also used the 727, prior to being purchased by Allegany. I've personally flown on them many times as a child! They were a very good plane for what they were intended - a short haul, low occupancy plane. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DansNowHere (talk • contribs) 03:44, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

An IP user added comments to the civil operators list based on other wikipedia articles here. I reverted this edit as other wiki pages are not reliable sources. Also, I don't think this was needed as sentence states August 2009, matching the Flight International reference. -Fnlayson (talk) 19:13, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Midwest Airlines is listed as a user of several 727's. AFAIK (and according to the Wiki article on the airline) Midwest never operated 727's. They did have a fleet of 717's however.N9jig (talk) 01:23, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Kalitta Charters II does operate a fleet of (5) 727-200 aircraft in an all cargo configuration. The webpage states 3 but is out of date. http://www.kalittacharters.com/urgent.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 727driver (talk • contribs) 23 May 2010

How do you know it's out of date? —Compdude¹²³ 06:42, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Accidents and incidents

How do they compare with other models? 67.243.7.240 (talk) 00:45, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was to merge Kyteto (talk) 13:56, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

---

I propose that the C-22 article be merged with this article, as the C-22s were virtually stock 727s with little modification and the subject could be adequately covered at Boeing 727, improving that article.Petebutt (talk) 04:50, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

• Agree —Compdude¹²³ 06:42, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
• Support - The C-22 was used as a transport with no major changes from 727. -Fnlayson (talk) 20:31, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
• Support - Without significant modification, the C-22 should be simply covered in the Operational History of the 727 article, there's no need for a small subarticle with little to no prospect of growth. Kyteto (talk) 20:55, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Orders and deliveries

Ihave removed this table as there is already a graph there

Orders

1983	1982	1981	1980	1979	1978	1977	1976	1975	1974	1973	1972
1	11	38	68	98	125	133	113	50	88	92	119
1971	1970	1969	1968	1967	1966	1965	1964	1963	1962	1961	1960
26	48	64	66	125	149	187	83	20	10	37	80

Deliveries

1984	1983	1982	1981	1980	1979	1978	1977	1976	1975	1974	1973
8	11	26	94	131	136	118	67	61	91	91	92
1972	1971	1970	1969	1968	1967	1966	1965	1964	1963	1962	1961
41	33	55	114	160	155	135	111	95	6	0	0

One or the other but not both!Petebutt (talk) 09:48, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Split hull-loss occurrences

Someone added a split tag to the Accidents and incidents section in this article. This seems like a reasonable suggestion given the numerous accident entries in the article. -Fnlayson (talk) 18:40, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Agree but List of accidents and incidents involving the Boeing 727 would be more in keeping with similar articles. MilborneOne (talk) 20:47, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

• or just List of accidents involving the Boeing 727. No real need to list incidents, imo. -Fnlayson (talk) 15:43, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Cruise speed

The specs section says the maximum cruise speed is "Mach 0.9 (685.1 mph)" and typical cruise "599 mph (521 kn)". As a fairly minor point, the units there should be consistent. More significantly, the quoted 685mph seems extremely high. Compare, for example, the maximum speed of the 747-400 series, quoted as "Mach 0.92 (614 mph [...])" — a higher Mach number but lower speed in mph. Strictly speaking, Mach number of a particular speed depends on air temperature so it is technically possible that these figures are both correct, if they refer to different temperatures. But the claim of 685.1mph seems implausibly fast: I had a quick look through the current offerings by Boeing and Airbus and none of them quotes a maximum cruise speed higher than that figure of 614mph. Dricherby (talk) 18:55, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Boeing 727 date of First flight versus date of Introduction

The first flight of Boeing 727 was recorded in Wiki on 9th Feb 1963 whilst the introduction of Boeing 727 with the Eastern Airlines was recorded as in Feb 1964. Is this normal i.e. the first flight was to fly to wherever the Eastern Airlines was domiciled and that took a good 300+ calendar days?

An explanation would be appreciated. Winniechui (talk) 04:41, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

"Introduction" means when the aircraft began service, in this case with Eastern Airlines. The 300+ dayes were spent in test flights, and achieving certification with the FAA. - BilCat (talk) 08:09, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

B727 with RATO

This YT video shows a Mexicana B727 fitted with RATO. There were only 12 727-200s that were built with the JATO provision and they were actually the more powerful 727-200 Advanced versions. Mexicana was in a unique position of serving several high-altitude airports in its network where the 727-200 as built would have been payload restricted to account for the possibility of the loss of one of the three engines at takeoff. Mexicana took delivery of twelve 727-200s that got around this limitation by having a JATO installation in the lower aft fuselage just behind the wings. These aircraft could be identified by having a shallow dorsal fairing ahead of the #2 intake that accommodated some of the rerouted avionics and air conditioning ducting that was displaced by the JATO provision. Without the JATO, the aircraft would have to be payload restricted to account for the need to reach a safe altitude in the event of an engine loss after committing to takeoff. By having the JATO provision, Mexicana could operate its 727-200s at full payload. In the event of a loss of engine at past V1, the JATO unit would fire and allow the heavily-laden jet to reach a safe altitude and get aerodynamically cleaned up. (unashamedly pinched from PPRuNe)Kitbag (talk) 10:22, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Use of a retired of a 727

FedEx donated one of its planes for use as an aircraft emergency training facility at Albany International Airport. I'm not sure this is notable enough for the article, but I thought it was interesting enough to share. http://www.timesunion.com/tuplus-local/article/Albany-airport-applies-for-FEMA-grant-for-mock-6393929.php — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.0.130.202 (talk) 12:41, 20 July 2015 (UTC)