User talk:Trappist the monk/Archive 4

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Trappist the monk. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

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Monkbot task 7

Hi. Many pages seem to have bots template with Monkbot7 value without a deny/allow parameter set. This causes them to appear at User:AnomieBOT/Nobots_Hall_of_Shame#Pages_with_broken_exclusion_templates. Can you please check and remove the bot tag here it is not needed or replace |1= with |deny= were the tag needed? Thanks, Magioladitis (talk) 12:56, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Monkbot is not adding these templates. It looks like SandyGeorgia added at least some of them, like this one and this one. SandyGeorgia, can you please fix these templates so that they work as you want them to? – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:12, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Slovenian/Slovene

Hi, Trappist, regarding this edit, there was no particular need to switch 'Slovene' to 'Slovenian'. Even more, although both terms are acceptable in writing, the term 'Slovene' has been given preference in dictionaries, which is why it has been preferred by editors also here; see Slovene language. --Eleassar ^{my talk} 11:16, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Monkbot task 6 made that edit because Wikimedia doesn't recognize Slovene as a language name. Module:Citation/CS1 categorizes citations that identify foreign language sources by testing the content of |language= against the list of languages that Wikimedia knows about. Because Slovene is not a language name that Wikimedia recognizes, pages with citations using |language=Slovene are categorized into Category:CS1 maint: Unrecognized language.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:38, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Addendum: Sava Hills isn't currently included in Category:CS1 maint: Unrecognized language because of a bug in the current live version of Module:Citation/CS1. That bug has been fixed in the sandbox so after the next update to the live module, Sava Hills will again be included in the unrecognized language category.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:16, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Identifier-based citation templates

A tag has been placed on Category:Identifier-based citation templates requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for four days or more and it is not presently under discussion at Categories for discussion, or at disambiguation categories.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines.

Every template in the category is deprecated. Category is empty. Knife-in-the-drawer (talk) 11:39, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Discussion on renaming Category:Taito NESiCAxLive games

Hello, you're invited to vote and express your views on the respective discussion page. Jotamide (talk) 15:39, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

huh — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.31.0.219 (talk) 14:51, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

quotes around refname

Hi Trappist- Re your revert of my removal of the quotes from around name in our excruciatingly long and difficult-to-use source-citing guideline: Given the refname help section* you linked to in your edit summary, don't you think it would be helpful to mention in the guideline that the quotes are rarely necessary?
*Quotation marks are optional if the only characters used are letters A–Z, a–z, digits 0–9, and the symbols !$%&()*,-.:;<@[]^_`{|}~. Eric ^talk 19:44, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Do you have some evidence that supports your statement that quotes are rarely necessary? I think that quotes should always be used. True, if the value assigned to name= doesn't have spaces, the quotes aren't required but, using quotes is stylistically similar to how attributes are used in HTML and XML which <ref>...</ref> resembles. Using quotes in the guideline, I think, serves to subtly educate editors so that when they do use a reference name that has spaces, they do it correctly even though they don't realize it.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:00, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

Ah, didn't catch that about needing them to handle spaces...that makes sense to me. When I saw refs that didn't use quotes, I thought maybe I could simplify the guide. I was trying to get something tedious done in less time, and not paying thorough attention to the guidelines. Nothing slows me down or kills my editing fervor like our help and guideline pages--they are our weakest area in my estimation. For someone who knows his way around wp pretty well and wants a quick reference, I find them agonizing to use. Thanks for your help. Eric ^talk 20:18, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

@Eric,Trappist the monk Random chime in. Quotes around HTML5 parameters are optional. In HTML4 they were recommended but still optional. Effectively they have always been optional except for some XML and XHTML specifications (but even then browsers handled it). I prefer the opposite to Trappist; I avoid quotes unless they are needed. Why? Because it clutters up the source and makes it more difficult to read. Things start to look like syntax soup, especially to non-coders. I suggest that the increase in the ease of reading (and therefore editing) of the source by using no quotes exceeds the benefit of "educating" the users on a syntax issue that doesn't even matter (as per the history of HTML). Jason Quinn (talk) 17:19, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the input, @Jason_Quinn. I'm one of those non-coders who knows just enough to get in trouble, so greater ease of legibility reduces my terror level. Do you guys think we should move this exchange over to Wikipedia_talk:Citing_sources? Eric ^talk 12:55, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 21 July

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

On the Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis page, your edit caused a redundant parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:25, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

ISSN

Just wondering if you could help at Template talk:ISSN#Check for invalid ISSN? -- WOSlinker (talk) 11:55, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

vcite2 journal

I cleaned all instances of vcite2 journal. I hope I did not do anything stupid. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:52, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

List of superfoods

Trappist -- as you have contributed to editing this list in the past, please give your thoughts on whether the article should be deleted, as proposed yesterday.[1] Guidelines:[2]. Thanks. --Zefr (talk) 14:31, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

August 2015

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Coat of arms of Germany may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

1935 |trans-title=Regulation concerning the national emblem of the reich of November 5, 1935)
|trans-title=Regulation concerning the design of the national emblem of the reich of March 7, 1936)

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Sir Edward Stafford

I recently ran across the wiki for Sir Edward Stafford, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Stafford_%28diplomat%29. Do you know of any images of Sir Edward?

We have a portrait in our museum collection that may be of Sir Edward. The evidence is slim so far (happy to share if you are interested). Another image of Sir Edward would certainly inform our research.

Thanks

Perry Hurt Associate Conservator North Carolina Museum of Art — Preceding unsigned comment added by Perry Hurt (talk • contribs) 17:26, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Alas, no. If you can confirm that your portrait is Sir Edward, I expect that it would make a nice addition to the article.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:40, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Your sig

I see from this (which I have now fixed) that the WP:LISTGAP issue with your sig, which I raised here last December and again in January is still present. Is there a reason you have not fixed it? Please do so. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:38, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

175 (number)

Somehow or other I managed to completely misread what was written. Thanks for putting me right. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 11:24, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Monkbot et al task slight failure

Look at the Vignal reference in this edit for a slight bug in Monkbot's et al. code. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:06, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, have to think about that one. Thanks.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 10:54, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Why is et al. being changed to etal? I've never seen the remarkable word "etal" before. Has some official change been made somewhere? Thanks, --Hordaland (talk) 00:45, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

There are four cs1|2 parameters where the inclusion of etal is permissible: |display-authors=, |display-editors=, |vauthors=, and |veditors=. The first two cause Module:Citation/CS1 to append the standardized 'et al.' text to name lists composed of |lastn= / |firstn= / |authorn= and |editor-lastn= / |editor-firstn= / |editorn= parameters. Similarly, the latter two are Vancouver system formatted lists of author or editor names where the keyword etal is replaced with the standardized 'et al.' text.

There are editors who, for lack of understanding, habit, or whatever reason, write the et al. text with italic markup, odd capitalization, with or without correct punctuation, etc. so the module replaces these non-standard forms with the standard form. Why does Monkbot task 7 use etal? Because etal is the canonical form first adopted for |display-authors= and |display-editors= as a keyword to tell the module what to do with those parameters. Yes, I could have made task 7 write a correct standardized form but that doesn't subtly enforce the notion that form of the 'et al.' text is controlled by the module and not by the editor.

Alles klar?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 01:18, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Not really; I only understood about 40% of that. It looked/looks weird, but it looks fine in the refs on the article pages. Thanks, Hordaland (talk) 04:18, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Citation module

Hi! Was adapting Citation module for Latvian Wikipedia. Everything is OK (currently), except for one thing. If some user uses some author parameters (author; last+first etc.) and |year= (or date etc.), then there is such output: Author(s) (year) .... If there is no author, but is year, then the year is somewhere in the middle. We would like to switch to the second case as default one. I hope, I described well, what I want :) Could you help? Tried to do that myself, but the corresponding code was too complex. You can make any changes to modules directly @lvwiki, you can't screw anything. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 18:45, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

You've discovered why I haven't answered this pseudo-RFC. To this point in my life I haven't felt a need to try to understand that particular bit of the code.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you want. By 'default', do you mean what happens when Authors and Editors are not set? Do you mean that you want Date to be placed in the same position all the time regardless of the state of Authors, Editors, CitationClass, and Periodical?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:11, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes. I would like to see, that in output date is like in that RFC for reference, that contains The Daily Telegraph (London). 4 August 2011, no matter is there some authors shown or not. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 20:39, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

I tweaked your code. Is that what you want?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:38, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

As you can see here, it doesn't look good. Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 22:44, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

it doesn't look good is not a helpful answer. I know that author is missing its separator; worry about small stuff like that later. Is the date positioned as you want it?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:02, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh, yes. Position is OK. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 05:39, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Ok, I've tweaked the code so that author now has it's separator. Do these changes work for all of the cs1|2 templates? Why is |first= rendered before |last=?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:50, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! Tested for web, book, journal - looks good. Will do a bigger testing later, if something will be wrong, will get in touch. About first/last - we decided to have first before last, it's better for Latvian language. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 12:23, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Also was thinking about date translation from English to Latvian. Would that be technically possible? The most standart English dates (like 4 September 2015 and September 4, 2015) would be fine. Latvian forms are pretty easy - both dates would translate as 2015. gada 4. septembris. Of course, if it would take quite much time to implement, then you don't have to do that now, but when you have some time (of course, if you want to help me :) ). Currently, it is just an idea. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 11:13, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

You removed date validation. That needs to be restored – no sense in attempting to translate a malformed date. Is there a need to translate ymd dates? I'll need a list of all month names (including seasons: spring, summer, autumn, fall, winter).

I can add code to lv:Modulis:Citation/CS1/Date validation to validate the Latvian date format. Is 'gada' always used and always exactly the same way? What about date ranges? d–d month year; d month – d month year; month d–d, year; Month d – Month d, year; year–year; etc.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:50, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

No, please without date validation. I know your intension was good to include that here, but it will be good without that in Latvian Wikipedia, at least currently. One of the reasons - I think more that 50% (but most probably maybe some 75%) of all instances uses date template (quite similar to yout {{date}}, but no so cool). Need just translating part :) I'm thinking only about those two variants, which I mentioned above (4 September 2015 and September 4, 2015), don't want to translate 2015-09-04 or other numeric dates, because 2015-09-04 can also be April 9, 2015. Latvian names: janvāris, februāris, marts, aprīlis, maijs, jūnijs, jūlijs, augusts, septembris, oktobris, decembris. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 12:23, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

November is novembris?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:11, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Whoops, missed that. Yes - novembris. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 14:40, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

See lv:Veidne:Grāmatas atsauce/Testi.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:06, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

THANK YOU very much :) Included month abbreviations, didn't thought about them, so thanks. You could take a look and say if this is the proper format to include them (for future reference). --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 17:52, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

vauthor

Makes the author not work when copied and pasted into other languages [3] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:42, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Doc James: The cleanup script that you run after pasting a citation into another language's WP should be able to substitute |vauthors= with an appropriate author parameter in that language's citation template. I clean up copy-pasted foreign language citation templates all the time using an AutoEd script. You're welcome to copy my script, or parts of it. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:26, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Clean up script? We have been installing a bunch of templates in all the other languages and have simply been using those templates to prevent needing to do this step. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:29, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

|vauthors= and |veditors= were added to cs1|2 at en:wp largely in response to WP:MED.

If the templates that you've been installing are using {{citation/core}} then changing the individual templates ({{cite journal}}, etc) should make |vauthors= and |veditors= work.

change this:

|Surname1={{{last|{{{last1|{{{author|{{{author1|{{{authors|{{{surname|{{{surname1|}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

to

|Surname1={{{vauthors|{{{last|{{{last1|{{{author|{{{author1|{{{authors|{{{surname|{{{surname1|}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

and change this:

|EditorSurname1={{{editor-last|{{{editor1-last|{{{editor|{{{editors|{{{editor-surname|{{{editor1-surname|}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

to this:

|EditorSurname1={{{veditors|{{{editor-last|{{{editor1-last|{{{editor|{{{editors|{{{editor-surname|{{{editor1-surname|}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Does this work for you?

If you are installing some version of the lua modules then the answer is not so simple.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:11, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

USS_Pee_Dee_River_(LSM(R)-517)

If you are interested in the ship's later history, I put additional info on the talk page.→StaniStani 12:50, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

...for tidying up my assorted messes at the ship naming conventions rewrite proposal. It is appreciated. -- saberwyn 11:54, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Renaming a module

Please see Module talk:Citation/CS1#Requested move 9 September 2015. Whoever closes this request may be unaware of whether it will break anything. Since you've edited the file, you may want to comment. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 02:08, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 09:44, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

bot error?

this edit looks like a bug. I am not aware that any of the parameters involved is deprecated. DES ^(talk) 01:18, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

—Trappist the monk (talk) 09:34, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Trappist! Checkingfax also brought up this issue - see Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser#AWB is removing date= parameter in references. Is there a way to update the bot code so that it doesn't save the edit if it doesn't remove a deprecated parameter? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 00:42, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

I will have a look.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:38, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

When there is no |month= or |day= removing an empty |date= seems unhelpful, as having the empty (but not duplicated) parameter can make adding the date later easier, and it does no harm. But if the bot is going to remove an empty |date= without more, can the edit summer be something like "Removing unused parameters" or "removing empty parameters" rather than "Fix CS1 deprecated date parameter errors"? the later is in such cases simply incorrect and causes confusion. DES ^(talk) 00:53, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't know that having empty parameters in 'hot standby', ready to be filled, is actually any easier than typing a new parameter name/value pair in a minimally populated template. First you have to find the parameter you're looking for in the sea of text and template parameters before you can add the parameter's value. There are those among us who complain mightily about template clutter and I admit to having sympathy for their cause; sure, empty parameters do no harm, but neither do they add real value.

I'll look at tweaking the edit summary.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:38, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Ships prefixed MT

Hello Trappist the monk. Thanks for fixing the title at MT Indiga. I've noticed that all the MT-prefixed ships using DISPLAYTITLE or {{italic title}} show that same error (Ex MT Frans Suell). Would it be possible to add the prefix MT to Template:Ship prefix to italicize the title automatically? I tried to add it myself, but it didn't seem to do anything...perhaps I did it wrong? Howicus (Did I mess up?) 01:20, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

{{ship prefix}} is no longer being used by {{infobox ship begin}}. I have replaced it with Module:WPSHIPS utilities. More information about that at WT:SHIPS.

I have added MT to Module:WPSHIPS utilities/sandbox. The change will take effect when next I update the live version (which updates are ongoing).

—Trappist the monk (talk) 09:43, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Ah, thanks, that sounds good. Howicus (Did I mess up?) 21:38, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Category move needed

Can you move the wikilink category to Category:CS1 errors: URL–wikilink conflict? I don't think I have the right permissions. Also Category:CS1 errors: translated title. Thanks. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:40, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

SS Badger

The bot puts a bullet in front to the {{infobox NRHP}} template in the ship notes= section of the ship infobox and it messes up the rest of the article. See this diff. I don't know if there is some way to format that so the bot doesn't keep doing it and maybe there are other ships that it is treating the same way. Maybe that's not how the NRHP template is supposed to embedded, idk. Just thought you might want to know. --Dual Freq (talk) 21:39, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. A case of garbage in garbage out. {{infobox NRHP}} does not belong in the |Ship notes= parameter of {{Infobox ship characteristics}}. Fixed.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:47, 12 October 2015 (UTC)