Talk:Virgil Exner

Comments

From Wikipedia:Peer review:

I fixed a couple of spelling mistakes etc. I think it's a solid article, but I've a couple of possibilities for improvement:

• I was wanting to know what his "Forward look" designs were.
• There's little discussion as to what makes him distinctive as a card designer / stylist, apart from a preference for fins.
• Also, maybe a section heading or two might also help improve the article?

— Matt 19:37, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your help & advice, Matt. I'll try to expand on why he's famous and his affect on the auto industry. Some pictures might help, but I'm a little copyright paranoid about anything I didn't photograph myself. -PlatinumX 04:24, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I'm glad to have been of any help. Your recent changes have fixed all the above, good stuff! I agree that more pictures might improve things further, but, as you mention, it's difficult to get hold of photos with suitable licenses. — Matt 15:44, 5 Jun 2004 (UTC)

On top of that

The Forward look was that of any production Chrysler product, model year 1955 until the end of Exners career with Chrysler. There are not many photographs of Exner, he wasnt realy photo-genic, he had a Unibrow. What made him distictive was that he designed cars that were plug-ugly, and was paid for it.

Noncompliant Tag

While the article does well at presenting facts, I think it could stand a serious edit to clean-up some of the opinion statements. Anyone who does so may feel free to remove the noncompliant tag themselves. --Lekoman 08:15, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Design work

I have found citable material which casts doubt on the reliability and/or adequacy of this account of Exner's work with Studebaker. Before changing anything, I am raising the matter here because the present section acknowledges "there is some debate". Some examples, from Hendry, Maurice M. Studebaker: One can do a lot of remembering in South Bend, New Albany: Automobile Quarterly, 228-275. Vol X, 3rd Q, 1972.

• (Page 247) ". . .the postwar model which made Loewy super-famous, remade Studebaker's image and ultimately became the orthodox postwar shape was not entirely Loewy's work. the principal designer [. .and. .] creator was Virgil M Exner".
• (Page 248) "After four years as chief designer at Pontiac, [Exner] joined Studebaker in 1938"
• 'He supervised [the 1939-40 models] down to such details as door handles, bumpers and the "S" monogram"
• "His next step, the daring 1947 model, had in one sense been gestating in the minds of automotive engineers for many years"
• (Page 252, citing a Bob Bourke as authority for the information) ". . .after his split with Loewy, Virgil Exner carried on his design ideas in the basement of his home. He worked closely with Roy Cole, vice-president of engineering, Eugene Hardig, chief chassis engineer, George Matthews, executive chassis engineer; and Perry Sullivan, chief body engineer."
• A quarter-scale clay model was produced in that basement, which was shipped to South Bend and became the basis of the decision by Studebaker directors to adoipt the design.

So, does anyone know for sure whether Exner was employed by Studebaker, or by Loewy? And was he in fact previously employed by Pontiac? What other reliable references are there on this? Why would the reputable writer Hendry go out on a limb with such a strange story if his account could not be substantiated by all the Studebaker people named in his article? Cheers, Bjenks (talk) 05:25, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Part of the answer to my first question has turned up in an article by Robert E Bourke in the same book as Hendry's article. The title is The Starlight and the Starliner: Some recollections of a designer. Bourke makes it clear that "Virg was assigned to South Bend under Loewy, who was already firmly established as Studebaker's chief design consultant, having been credited with the very fine Champion of 1939". Bourke was hired by Studebaker "prior to Pearl Harbour". He states that "Ex did the final design work for the 1947 Champion and Commander lines, which included the famous Starlight coupé, one of the first truly postwar automobile designs". Bourke went to work for Loewy a year later and was asked to help him "win back the Studebaker production contract". So, it seems some of the Exner article will have to be rewritten—but I'll first wait and see what others say, if anything. Bjenks (talk) 07:03, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone have the Exner biography? I can't seem to find my copy but I suspect it would help.Davert (talk) 13:55, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

An online description on how "Loewy increasingly became a manager and a tireless self-promoter, taking credit for projects regardless of whether he himself put pen to paper" ... and that "Clare Hodgman, Virgil Exner, and others who did most of the actual prewar styling work for Studebaker" ... so that ..."Loewy promptly fired Exner for his treachery" ... because ... " Exner and Cole worked up their own proposal in secret -- with the advantage of engineering parameters not made available to the "official" Loewy team. It was this design that [Studebaker] management ultimately chose and introduced in mid 1946." See: "1950-1951 Studebaker" by the Auto Editors of Consumer Guide, 15 August 2007, retrieved on 23 September 2008. — CZmarlin (talk) 19:22, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Getting into the Google, I can now see there's quite a bit online, including an excellent NY Times article and a detailed Bob Bourke interview. Should be enough for WP purposes. This all raises the intriguing issue of accountability through giant egos! Of course, the billing consultancy of Loewy is entitled to overall credit but, equally, there has to be acknowledgement of the bright hirelings who came up with the saleable ideas and designs. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 05:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

External links modified

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