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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Safehaven86 (talk | contribs) at 16:06, 21 September 2016 (+ reply re. NYT). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Appboy

Appboy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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My detailed and extensive PROD here was removed with the apparent basis of adding sources, but I myself have examined several single of those newly added sources, they are simply PR and PR-like attempts from the company to seek and establish funding and financing; the fact the listed news themselves are far apart in time that it shows the company themselves simply likely motivated the supposed "news" themselves. The TechCrunch article not only mentions "starts funding" in its name, but the article goes as far to contain "Of course, that’s all well and good, but how exactly is AppBoy looking to improve the discovery of apps, up intelligence on users, and encourage engagement? " No honest journalist would put that unless they wanted to fluff the company and perhaps motivate its own clients and investors to place interest. The AppDeveloper magazine source, I'll note is clearly simply a "report guide" in that it only partly mentions the company in the said company (Appboy) 's own report. The Fortune magazine itself then only mentions exactly what a PR agent places: what the company's business and activities are and what the company's goals are; this exact article then goes through the specifications about the company's own funding and financial activities and then about its services and its status. That article then states Tewari declined to disclose the amount his group has invested in Appboy or whether his parent company uses Appboy’s technology. However, he did observe that a far larger percentage of the bank’s interactions with accountholders are taking place via mobile banking applications and other digital messaging venues , something that the businessperson would be motivated to mention especially if seeking clients and investors, something any newly started and seeking-ground-company would want. That article then continues saying the employees information, where they are located, "It doesn’t disclose its total customer count" is something that is not actually of necessary substance, so it's not something exactly convincing of notability here. The article finishes with then talking about other notable companies and the "needs of customers". All in all, my examinations are simply finding nothing to suggest both independent notability substance and then non-PR based sources and attempts. SwisterTwister talk 03:05, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. North America1000 03:11, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. North America1000 03:11, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. North America1000 03:11, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep – Meets WP:CORPDEPTH per a review of available sources. Source examples include, but are not limited to those listed below. These are bylined news articles written by staff writers that have been published in independent, reliable sources. It's important to note that the sources below are not press releases, as evidenced in part by utilizing Google searches using the titles of these article, in which links are only present for these articles themselves, as opposed to press releases, which typically have the same article hosted on many various pr websites. North America1000 03:15, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

  • Clancy, Heather (June 30, 2016). "This Startup Helps Marketers Optimize Mobile Outreach". Fortune. Retrieved September 20, 2016. {{cite web}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
  • Empson, Rip (November 23, 2011). "AppBoy Raises A Cool Million To Let App Developers Better Engage And Understand Their User Base". TechCrunch. Retrieved September 20, 2016. {{cite web}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
– Don't be misled by the title of the TechCrunch article directly above, which could lead one to think that it's just routine coverage about funding. It certainly is not. The article provides information about the company's focus, background information, what the company's software does, and more.
  • Nominator's analysis of listed sources; these are still essentially PR attempts as I noted with my said nomination; the newest added one, the 2013 TechCrunch article is essentially a how-to guide since it actually goes to specifications to show what the item is, how it works and how it looks; that's basically a sales pitch, especially to seek and obtain clients and investors, even in the fact the "article" itself contains an image of how the item works. I'll note the following: "The customer engagement tool is offered at no extra cost to Appboy users. The company prices its service on a freemium model where it’s free up to 10,000 monthly users, then tiered afterwards. Appboy doesn’t disclose exact user numbers, but says that it has hundreds of developers using the new product, representing millions of mobile users. Several big-name clients will be revealed in a few weeks, Ghermezian notes." which is essentially the company advertising itself, showing the specifications about the said item, the "article" the closes by mentioning their funding activities, again something only a company wanting PR would mention. The next one, Mashable's "article" begins with not only a photo of what it looks like but then flashy words like "New look and feel" which is something someone would only mention if they wanted to find clients (from the article: "The customer engagement tool is offered at no extra cost to Appboy users. The company prices its service on a freemium model where it’s free up to 10,000 monthly users, then tiered afterwards. Appboy doesn’t disclose exact user numbers, but says that it has hundreds of developers using the new product, representing millions of mobile users. Several big-name clients will be revealed in a few weeks, Ghermezian notes....Appboy [now has an update]), not a genuine journalism method. SwisterTwister talk 03:26, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: I easily found two very strong sources, Wall Street Journal and Fortune. As to the nominator's argument that "the company themselves simply likely motivated the supposed 'news' themselves", we have no way of knowing what motivates journalists or media outlets to write about things. We only have our WP:RS policy. Fortune and WSJ are both reliable and provide non-trivial coverage, therefore, this company meets the standard of WP:GNG. Safehaven86 (talk) 04:14, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - The comment is not fully noting all of my concerns listed here, which are also PR concerns, something that cannot simply be tossed aside. The Fortune link they list, I specifically and clearly examined and noted the concerns; what motivates journalists, especially ones looking for an easy and simple task, are the ones that are searching for companies so they can boost their connections and ultimately, their future jobs; that's what journalism can be like, especially when it comes to companies, where they are eager to especially find clients and investors, hence the overspecifications about the company's services and activites; examining this WallStreetJournal link above, it not only begins with listing the company's funding (attempts only to find clients and investors, granted), but it then says "Venture investors are hot on the space, having backed more than a dozen such startups in recent years, including Kahuna Inc., Urban Airship Inc., Swrve Inc., Localytics Inc. and Leanplum Inc." (which are simpy attempts to shoehorn name-connections, they serve no actual relevance or substance to the article itself), "“There was lots of inbound interest so we didn’t do a roadshow. Investors found us and we picked three to entertain,” said Mr. Ghermezian. He added that he initially sought to raise $10 million and could have easily raised $25 million" is then another attempt at wooing viewers, clients and investors, to actually then state what number of investors they "entertained" and then ultimately settled with. The next one is : "The 50-person company aims to double head count during the next year or so and focus mainly on sales and marketing. Appboy’s technology, which also allows clients to engage users via app push notifications, in app messaging or other means, will be rolled out to increasingly large enterprise users, according to the company plan" Not only was this simply supplied by the company itself, it actually then goes to specifics what their plans and activities are, the audience that targets are again clients and investors. The next information then, unsurprisingly, lists other companies who are apparently clients, and what their information is. None of that is substance. Given my specified analysis with these concerns, you cannot honestly then say that's "in-depth and significant coverage". SwisterTwister talk 04:50, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom, and I don't think the proffered sources are evidence of depth - all of this is churnalism at best - David Gerard (talk) 07:28, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep because it passes WP:CORP as clearly shown by the references already cited in this discussion. -- 1Wiki8........................... (talk) 19:23, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yet my comments and analysis has clearly stated what and why the concerns exist, simply stating that the sources "are enough" is not enough to simply the article. SwisterTwister talk 19:42, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Your badgering is bordering on disruption. -- 1Wiki8........................... (talk) 19:55, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, and view it as a WP:BLUDGEON issue. When participating at AFD, there is no requirement to respond to or satisfy every comment/objection made by other editors. In fact, it would be impossible to do so--editors acting in good faith can and will often disagree, even after everyone has made their best arguments. Editors are not entitled to point-by-point rebuttals of their own analysis. Safehaven86 (talk) 20:07, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - clearly meets WP:GNG, sources listed above clearly meet WP:CORPDEPTH. No comment on the trend in journalism quality in general. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 20:37, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. ad promotional and borderline notable. If there is anything clear about the sources is that the would not have been written except for interest in the social connections of the proprietor. This is the sort of human interest coverage that does not provide notability ofa person;'s enterprises, and is even pretty dubious for information on their own notability. The NYT article is a fairly good explanation of that; far from proving the notability of the company, it disproves it. The others are either publicity or just mentions or other routine coverage. Including this sort of content is adding WP to the other organs of publicity. However, we're an encyclopedia. Even if the firm were notable, the articles should bedeleted for promotionalism,which is an even stronger reason that borderline notability . DGG ( talk ) 01:40, 21 September 2016 (UTC) .[reply]
I was asked on my talk pa to explain further: The material in that article shows the company is not yet notable. Sometimes a newspaper -- even a very good newspaper -- covers something because of some human interest hook, or because it's a typical example--as, to take an example, the instances selected for coverage in the articles in the NYT Neediest Cases Fund drive. Such coverage is not notability. Here, it overs the firm, and the coverage is directed to saying how completely un-notable the company is, except for the human interest in its founder, along with similar insignificant companies serving similarly as hobbies by wealthy young people. The only meaning of notability in a WP context is what is suitable to be in the encyclopedia. If there's coverage in good sources showing it is not suitable, then it is not notable., just as much as if there were no coverage at all . The GNG is a general rule, but has to be used with judgment about what is actually in the source. DGG ( talk ) 06:31, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree about the NYT article, and you've almost convinced me, except the WSJ and Fortune articles are about Appboy and only Appboy. (I'm old and am not as sure about Techcrunch helping to establish notability.) I have long felt that GNG is overused and applies absent critical thinking, but this may be a case where GNG applies. I'm listening. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 13:34, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think anyone here has tried to use the NYT source as a way to establish notability. I added the source to the article recently because it provided some background information on the company that filled in some gaps on the organization's history. I don't think the source establishes GNG because it's fairly trivial coverage. I think it's the Fortune and WSJ sources that do that. But as far as I'm aware every source in an article doesn't have to provide WP:SIGCOV--it just needs to verify the content it is intended to verify in an article. Safehaven86 (talk) 16:05, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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