Talk:Periyar/Archive 1

Periyar need not refer only to EVR , but can also refer to River Periyar

Harishsubramanian 10:32, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

EVR renamed as Periyar

As Periyar University,District are named after him.Tamil Nadu Government calls him Periyar so Periyar 125.22.158.169 09:40, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Periyar District is no longer named after him. Whatever Tamil Nadu Government says is not the gospel truth. It is run by his followers so they named a University after him. A lousy name for a university, in my opinion and that of many others'. TN govt should stop naming Universities after politicians anyway just like they stopped naming disctricts. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RSekar (talk • contribs) 22:04, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

Periyar River more important than EVR

The Periyar River, one of the important rivers of South India, predates EVR by thousands of years. Periyar is only a title for EVR given by his followers, and not accepted by others. Because his followers are in power in Tamil Nadu, Tamil Nadu Government calls him Periyar. He never renounced his given name including the caste name during his lifetime. So Wikipedia should refer to him as E. V. Ramaswamy Naicker - the name he always used for himself. Please rename the title to EVR and use disambiguation.

Apart from Periyar River, there are also Periyar Wildlife Sanctuary, Periyar National Park, Periyar Lake, all related to Periyar River, having nothing to do with EVR. All these are major tourist destinations worldwide so it is not correct to go to EVR when one types Periyar in Wikipedia. (RSekar 22:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC))

River is really Periyaru = Big River = Periya Aru;

EVR is the real Periyar. Great Man - Or Thanthai Periyar - Father Dada Great Man.

As such Periyar is really EVR and not the river.

--Cindy Manu 12:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

-- Periyar River is referred to as Periyar not Periyaru for the last 3000 years.. so you want to rename it for your convenience?? You guys will do anything to get your way won't you..

While Periyar is bad 'Thanthai Periyar' is worse :-) Why would everybody want to call this man as 'Father'.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RSekar (talk • contribs) 22:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

EVR Role in Vaikom Sathyagraha - highly exaggerated by DK and other followers

Check out: http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2006/12/dravidiana-perversity-of-periyarana.html

Periyar related Articles

I have asked for help from India message board. Added NPOV as the point of views are heavily disputed I feel we need someone neutral to adjujrigate on this who is knowledgeable on this. Vaikom issue ,Periyar was asked to lead the agitition because he happened to be the President of the Tamil Nadu congress Committee. Please refer these 2 http://www.media-watch.org/articles/0499/65.html http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19990331/iex31073p.html Anyway added your viewpoint also. Further the naming dispute also has be resolved by someone neutral As I see no meeting point here.

Further blogs,messageboard and own website are not considered as reliable sources as per Wikipedia policy

http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2006/12/dravidiana-perversity-of-periyarana.html is a blog now anyone can create a blog or a own site and link a article and give it as a source this is not allowed as it is not it is not relable

while a website of say congress party for a congress article is relaible through gives only there POV.One can add another artcle with a different POV.Harlowraman 07:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

"a website of say congress party for a congress article is relaible" -- how is it reliable? Will they cover Emergency period or the anti-Sikh riots in a neutral manner? Will you take information about Nazi part from their web site? Think about it. Same goes for periyar.org or tamilnation.com (12.108.188.134 00:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC))

There is a difference between "partisan" and "reliable". A partisan source can still be reliable, and a non-partisan source can still be unreliable. This is a case of the former.periyarite websites are reliable to state periyarite views in a partisan way. They are not reliable to be stated as the truth. That is my understanding of wikipedia rules.Rumpelstiltskin223 01:25, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Rajeev2004 is a brahmin who is well known for anti-dravidian stance. Only a lunatic would include his rants as proof.

What a deluded post! "Brahmin and anti-Dravidian". What about Dravidian Brahmins? Would he toss a coin for them? Hee! Rumpelstiltskin223 01:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

-- Rajeev2004 not a brahmin. He is an Ezhava - classified as OBC in Kerala. He has not made any secret of this. He is particularly incensed because EVR's propaganda machine has taken over all the credit the hard work done by Ezhava leaders for the Vaikom Satyagraha. You are the guys who thought Periyar river was named after EVR!! Periyar - an ancient river - is named because it is a large river - Periya == large, AaRu == river !!

Neutrality Issues

The EVR page has been run largely by his followers, and presents a very deliberately cultivated point of view. EVR's hate campaign against the Brahmin community of Tamil Nadu is being hidden by the authors, and any attempt to mention that is immediately edited out. One has to only read any of his articles to see how he viewed only brahmins, and every brahmin (irrespective of attitude or background) as the enemy. Since this is a minority community it does not have any voice in what is put out in Tamil Nadu. This situation is similar to that of the Periyar movie - it is created by funds given by the TN government (run by DMK), and other funds collected by DK and other organizations. Further, announcements related to the movie are given by DK general secretary. How objective is this movie going to be? Let Wikipedia not descend to those levels.

Reply - Seconded. He was a polemicist and he laid the groundwork for the persecution of Brahmins in Tamil Nadu.Bakaman 23:34, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Reply - Absolutely. For all his talk of being a rationalist, there never was a bigger hypocrite that walked this earth than EVR. He always advocated anti-brahminism in the garb of atheism. His philosophy never boycotted Islam, Christianity and other religions and their gods. He found soft targets in brahmins and found it easy to create a movement like this and get away with it. If only EVR and his cronies(DK, DMK, Satyaraj, Veeramani, Kamal Hassan included) had spoken against Muslims and their beliefs the way they did against Brahmins, history would have been vastly different. There would never have been any Dravidian parties in existence today. Anti-God is different from Anti-Brahminism and EVR advocated the second in the garb of the first.Silanthimanithan 10:07, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Persecution of Brahmins Facts do not support this

Please clarify this point

Periyar or EVR spoke and wrote against Brahmins this by itself does not turn into Persecution in a democracy

Looking right from 1919 till date in over 80 years

• 1: No Brahmin has been killed
• 2: No Anti Brahmin riot has taken place
• 3: All measures like Reservation was passed by the legislature subject to challenge in a court of Law.
• 4:He never waged an armed struggle
• 5:He was never even charged for murder or any violent crime
• 6:No Brahmin man or women was ever even serously injured.
• 7:No Human rights group ,MP,MLA including Brahmin MP has spoken in parliament or legislature about the so called persecution of Brahmins.R.Venkatraman,T.T.krishnamachari etc
• 8:No Brahmin has left Madras/Tamil Nadu as a refugee .They have left like many others for better prospects.

Hence I find the concept of Persecution a mere mythI would welcome a reply to this.

125.22.132.241 20:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The facts DO support hate against Brahmins in South. See [1]. There is clearly a systemic vilification of Brahmins in the South. While I admit that some Brahmins have been less thannice, to use that to vilify ALL Brahmins is hatemongering and persecutiob. Please keep such rabidly Anti-Brahman hate out of the encyclopedia, thaa Rumpelstiltskin223 21:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Brahmanism and Periyar

People in Imdia should be greatful that finally they can get rid of casteism and religious superstition because of Periyar and other social workers like him. Brahmins are just like any other Indian. They do not have any separate DNA or blood group. as such Brahmins should start mixing with other caste and voluntarily marry other people. This will benefit India in the long range as other nations were able to enslave India because of caste system. If all Indians have joined and fought against the Invaders who came through Khyber Pass or the other colonialists who came through the Cape of Good Hope and Suez Canal the status of India is now far bigger than Japan. India was done to slavery because of the caste system. That is why Periyar is great. He has the guts to tell everything he believed that is true and scientific. Brahmins should take it easy and get over with their new status quo. --Cindy Manu 12:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Cindy's note is an example of the muddled thinking that EVR's followers show. First of all, EVR changed the meaning of the word "Brahminism" to mean what is normally meant by "Casteism". In the rest of the world and in the rest of India outside Tamil Nadu, "Brahminism" means the rituals and traditions of Brahmins. This largely includes traditions that are historically practiced by Brahmins and has nothing to do with Casteism. EVR's clever usage of words made Brahmins the only guilty party in a complex caste system that is practised mostly by non-Brahmins. If he had been serious about removing casteism, he would have used the word Casteism. EVR's scapegoating of Brahmins is his only legacy in Tamil Nadu. He blamed all brahmins without exception for all the evils of Tamil society. In his way of thinking, any Brahmin was guilty simply because he was born a Brahmin. Didn't matter whether he/she was broad-minded etc. Most of EVR's ideas show a high degree of emotion-based hatred rather than rational thinking. He is *not* a rationalist in the commonly understood sense of the word - i. e. one whe reasons things out and comes to conclusions. EVR is better described as a hate-monger, similar to other hate-mongers such as Hitler. He wanted the destruction of Brahmins in Tamil Nadu, nothing more, nothing less. He also did nothing for the dalits. He belonged to the non-brahmin upper-caste Naickers, and his propaganda largely benefited the non-brahmin-upper-caste - i. e., the OBCs - who rule Tamil Nadu. -RSekar

I fully agree with this. Also, Periyar lunatics can hardly claim to be more "rational" when every Periyarite in TN keeps claining that Periyar invented everything from fire to rockets. Periyar was a thug like Mussolini. Hee. Rumpelstiltskin223 18:59, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Reason for Brahminism

Look in 1919 over 70% of the posts of Madras Presidency were with the brahmins and over 65 of the university students were brahmins. Brahmins dominated madras Presidency this caused resentment amongst the non brahmins and a non Brahmin Justice Party which brought communial reservation for the first time in india to ensure that 93% non brahmin also got a reasonable share in government jobs ,education etc.Reservation and other measures was supported all other castes except Brahmins as they had everything to lose and similarly.It was only later divisions within the non brahmins like Thever-Dalit,Vanniyar-Dalit came.when Periyar led the movement they were united.Opposition this came only from the Brahmins.No other caste opposed hence Periyar also had to oppose them.this reform movement and policy were opposed by the Brahmins.

That just shows that Brahmins were culturally more prone to education, not a systematic or institutional discrimination by Brahmins in the South. That is a fiction invented by Periyarites in order to portray Brahmins as the mythical "other". Reservation is supported by many Brahmins. Only opposers are Bhumihars/landowners, not scapegoate Brahmins (though some Brahmins oppose it, Brahmin community as a whole did not oppose). Please keep out Periyarite propaganda from wikipedia, thaa. Rumpelstiltskin223 21:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Not just in 1919, but even today, if you take certain industries/businesses in Tamil Nadu, certain castes will be dominating even more than Brahmins dominated education. For example - let's see how easy it is for a Dalit to start and thrive in a jewellery business controlled by Chettiars. Or a textile business dominated by Naidus. Where is the anti-Chettiar movement against that? Or where is the talk of reservations in businesses (just like affirmative action in businesses in the US)? The fact is, EVR's movement was a hate campaign against Brahmins, and it did not differentiate between poor or rich brahmins, or broad-minded or narrow-minded brahmins. Brahmins took to education because they had a strong cultural background that encouraged it and actually discouraged the making of money. I don't think anyone who grew up in Tamil Nadu can say with a clear conscience that Brahmins were not vilified by EVR's movement and that foul language and threats of violence were not used against them. It is true that no brahmins were killed but that is because Tamil Nadu was not a separate country and because Brahmins never reacted violently to the violent rhetoric coming from EVR and his followers. What are we seeing now in regards to Srirangam where the people who damaged EVRs statue weren't even Brahmins? That is being used as an excuse to physically attack brahmins with tacit support from the DMK government. (RSekar 22:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC))