User talk:Novem Linguae/Archive 9

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Seasons Greetings

Merry Christmas, Novem Linguae! Or Season's Greetings or Happy Winter Solstice! As the year winds to a close, I would like to take a moment to recognize your hard work and offer heartfelt gratitude for all you do for Wikipedia. And for all the help you've thrown my way over the years. May this Holiday Season bring you nothing but joy, health and prosperity. Onel5969 TT me 02:36, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Onel5969 ^{TT me} 02:36, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Question

Hi. I'm adding two modern academic opinions on one event (purim). but two users deleted my content and even accused me of war editing. I want to know if can someone delete academic content because he thinks that the book of Esther is not historical fiction ? in now-days, no professors think that this book is reliable. but this user insists on consensus !!! Nobody is supporting his idea, what, what consensusing can be established when he has no advocate ??? Jentilir (talk) 09:48, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Hey @Jentilir. Thanks for your contributions. This is called a content dispute, and the best place to hash this out is on the article's talk page. In this case, that is Talk:Purim. Since your edits are being objected to, you need to develop a consensus on that talk page before your edits can be included. A consensus means that the result of the discussion is that most people agree to add your content. If this agreement doesn't happen, the content should not be added. Please also be careful not to edit war, which can get you blocked. WP:3RR. Hope this helps. Happy editing. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:12, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

P.S. @Jentilir. Your edits had capitalization, grammar, and punctuation errors. What is your native language? We have Wikipedias in many languages. It may be easier to edit that Wikipedia. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:17, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

My native language is persian. And i added those text in persian wiki, too. But english is international's language. Why should not to edit in this wikipedia? And on what Basis he/she says "No secondary sourcing means that we should not include this, Wikipedia isn't an indiscriminate list of opinions" ??? If he/she has a secondary source, he/she can add his content too, But he can't delete my content, because he/she has not any defender. Jentilir (talk) 10:34, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

@Jentilir. Why should not to edit in this wikipedia? You have errors in every sentence, which makes it high effort to read and fix your contributions. This quote, for example, should be "Why shouldn't I edit this Wikipedia?"

And on what Basis he/she says "No secondary sourcing means that we should not include this, Wikipedia isn't an indiscriminate list of opinions" ??? WP:SECONDARY sources are better than WP:PRIMARY sources. The use of primary sources can mess up the WP:WEIGHT of an article. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:51, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Ok. I will fix my errors. but this not related to its undo my edits. He/she can say you should fix your writing, not saying that you should convince me (when I don't have a supporting secondary book to defend my idea). And i request you to tell him/her to stop deleting my context. If he/she didn't have and secondary book, it's not my fault. he/she should Research for finding text to support his/her idea. And you said about WP:WEIGHT. all primary sources are supporting the report of Esther an Mordecai. So can I delete subsequent source because it's indiscriminate reports ? Jentilir (talk) 19:54, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

@Jentilir. As a newer editor (18 edits), you should pay attention to what experienced editors such as MrOllie (207,000 edits) and Viewmont Viking (48,000 edits) are saying, and adjust your editing accordingly. They probably know what they are talking about :) Content disputes should always be discussed at the talk page of the article, in this case Talk:Purim. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:18, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Experience in what field ? I don't think they read even a dozen academic books about religions or history ? Experience in general editing didn't give anyone the ability to undo their opponent's edits. If someone had another idea, he/she should put his/her text in wikipedia's page, dude. it's not my duty ! Jentilir (talk) 22:08, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

A solstice greeting

❄️ Happy holidays! ❄️

Hi Novem Linguae! I'd like to wish you a splendid solstice season as we wrap up the year. Here is an artwork, made individually for you, to celebrate. It was great to meet you in Toronto, and always appreciate all your technical work! Take care, and thanks for all you do to make Wikipedia better!

Cheers,
{{u|Sdkb}} ^talk

Solstice Celebration for Novem Linguae, 2023, DALL·E 3.

(View full series)

Note: The vibes are winter solsticey. If you're in the southern hemisphere, oops, apologies.

{{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 06:52, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Notification of administrators without tools

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Melbourne shuffle

Hello, I am seeking a dispute resolution over at the Melbourne shuffle page. I noticed you have cleaned it up a bit in the past. Recently an IP address and two newly created sockpuppet accounts (all clearly connected IMO) have attempted to rewrite the history of the shuffle and attribute the creation of the dance to one man. No other source links him to the shuffle, let alone names him as its inventor. It's all really bizarre. Please read their claims and my response to them over at the Melbourne shuffle talk page. Any help in sorting this out would be much appreciated. - HappyWaldo (talk) 15:51, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

This might also be relevant: the man in question had a Wiki page that was deleted in 2021 due to "undisclosed conflict of interest, lack of any quantifiable accomplishments, that this is a resume, and because it's spam". - HappyWaldo (talk) 16:12, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Hey @HappyWaldo. Thanks for the message. I went ahead and reverted to the last stable version, as I don't think someone saying in an interview that they invented something is a very reliable source. If there continue to be issues on this page, I'd recommend posting at a noticeboard or something to get neutral editors to participate in the discussion. Can also consider filing a WP:SPI if it becomes obvious the two accounts are the same editor. Hope that helps. Happy editing. –Novem Linguae (talk) 00:17, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Vandalism of Melbourne shuffle warning

Please read user happwaldo's edit comment before you delete if highly important level article Purple rain and black sky (talk) 11:15, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Novem Linguae!

Happy New Year!

Novem Linguae,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
Abishe (talk) 20:51, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Abishe (talk) 20:51, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Happy New Year 2024

Happy New Year, dear tutor! Your guidance and support have been invaluable. Wishing you a year filled with joy, success, and the fulfillment of all your aspirations. Cheers to a fantastic year ahead! – DreamRimmer (talk) 06:45, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @DreamRimmer. I wish you a great new year too! –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:13, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

yo

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ltbdl (talk) 02:43, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

History merge

Moved to Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Coordination § Newsletter stuff

–Novem Linguae (talk) 04:20, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

NPP Coordinator

Moved to Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Coordination § Illusion Flame NPP Coordinator request

–Novem Linguae (talk) 06:17, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, people's rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension. Happy Holidays to you and yours. ―Buster7 ☎

06:52, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Happy Christmas

	Merry Christmas, Novem Linguae
	or whatever else you may celebrate at this time of year. Thank you for all your work on Wikipedia throughout the year and may 2024 prove to be a happy and successful year for you and your family Josey Wales Parley 22:06, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

06:52, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

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BZRP MS #53

Hello, I wonder why you reverted my edit in the BZRP MS #53 article? What is the idea that in the header of the article it is specified that it is a Spanish song? Bogartlipa1989 (talk) 11:20, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Hey @Bogartlipa1989. I reverted your edit because 1) you didn't leave an edit summary, and 2) I think we should mention that this song is in Spanish somewhere in the WP:LEAD. Especially since the song's title is in English and all of its lyrics are in Spanish, I think this is important information to provide to the reader since it is not intuitive. Hope this helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 02:18, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

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Bug with one of your scripts.

The ANRFC lister refuses to list any discussion I try to use it on. It claims that it can't find any signature. Maybe you can figure out what is going on. Thanks, NW1223<Howl at me•My hunts> 19:40, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

removed example as I thought that that discussion was ready for closure. My point still stands.NW1223<Howl at me•My hunts> 19:45, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

@NightWolf1223. Thanks, will take a look. Here's some diffs I plan on testing and fixing:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Connecticut_Panhandle&oldid=1194575114
• https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Large_language_model_policy&oldid=1194511250#RFC

–Novem Linguae (talk) 02:22, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

The problem is likely having MediaWiki:Gadget-CommentsInLocalTime.js installed ("Change UTC-based times and dates, such as those used in signatures, to be relative to local time" in Special:Preferences). Will write a patch. –Novem Linguae (talk) 04:00, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

@NightWolf1223. Should be all fixed. Thanks for reporting. If you encounter any other bugs please let me know. –Novem Linguae (talk) 04:48, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

I just tried it at Talk:Israel#RFC on human rights languages in lead and got the same issue. NW1223<Howl at me•My hunts> 21:54, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Redon Ismaili

Articles for creation Adope266 (talk) 14:19, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

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F&GT

Hi Novem Linguae. As you are probably aware, there are some personnel changes ongoing at Wikipedia:Featured and good topic candidates. I have temporarily seconded myself from FAC and TFA - I am a coordinator at both - to help out during the changing of the guard. The bot for promotions seems to be working nicely and saves coordinators a lot of work; thank you. Do you know if there is a similar bot for 1. demotions 2. adding articles to an existing FT or GT? If there isn't, could there be? Both would again be very helpful in terms of reducing repetitive activities. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:16, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Hey @Gog the Mild. Thanks for helping out at FGTC. There is not currently a bot for those two activities. I estimate it would be a ton of work. To give you an idea of the amount of work, the current bot is 1500 lines of logic and 3900 lines of tests to handle only one workflow (brand new promotion).

Anyway, the first step would be getting a detailed work instruction for each of those two activities. As an example, here's the work instruction for what the bot currently does: User:Novem Linguae/Work instructions/FGTC#Manual promotion. Do work instructions for these two activities exist, or if not, would you be willing to write some? Could you also provide some example contribs links showing the manual promotion diffs? Example. (Note the offset and the limit in the URL.) Thanks a lot. Looking forward to your feedback. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:14, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Oof. So we could just be moving the work around. Thanks for considering it anyway. I think that we can shelf 2. adding articles, it is a common event, but it's not that much work. 1. demotions looks like a right pain. But before I firm up a request, let me talk to the one surviving and two immediate past F&GT coordinators about whether it is actually as bad as I am finding it and whether it is as common an event as I suspect. I already have queries out as to whether there is an activities list; if there isn't I would want to write one anyway. Then, obviously circulate it for comments and run it a few times to bug check. I'll then get back to you and we can have an informed discussion as to whether the future work saved would be worth the input of coding effort now. Thanks again. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:41, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Sounds good. Keep me posted :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:52, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Looks like the demoting instructions are at User:Spy-cicle/FTC/Demote Instructions. –Novem Linguae (talk) 01:22, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

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GuestBook

Hello! I fixed my entry in your guestbook just now with my signature as well as getting rid of the auto-generated text! I hope you have a great weekend and enjoy that cookie! Elvisisalive95 (talk) 14:43, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Nomnom nom! –Novem Linguae (talk) 19:07, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

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Message added 07:41, 24 January 2024 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

– DreamRimmer (talk) 07:41, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

@DreamRimmer. Sorry buddy, I'm pretty busy with work this week. May want to contact a different NPP admin such as Rosguill or Hey man im josh. –Novem Linguae (talk) 19:08, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed. Thanks for the update. – DreamRimmer (talk) 03:40, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Mira Filzah

Morning @Novem Linguae: I reviewed this and it looks ok. Previous versions were duds and the subject name was create-protected. She is definently notable now and although its a bit fluffy in the language, I'll clean it up. But its notable. Can you remove? scope_creep^Talk 09:04, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

@Scope creep. Un-salted. Should be all set. Have a great day :) –Novem Linguae (talk) 11:05, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

@Novem Linguae: Thanks. scope_creep^Talk 13:45, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

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You may wish to comment?

There is a debate at talk:Scientific method#Stemwedel quote to which you may wish to contribute. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 14:09, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Wikipedia featured topics EFL League Two play-offs good content

A tag has been placed on Category:Wikipedia featured topics EFL League Two play-offs good content indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Wikipedia featured topics EFL League Two play-offs featured content

A tag has been placed on Category:Wikipedia featured topics EFL League Two play-offs featured content indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Wikipedia featured topics EFL League One play-offs good content

A tag has been placed on Category:Wikipedia featured topics EFL League One play-offs good content indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Wikipedia featured topics EFL League One play-offs featured content

A tag has been placed on Category:Wikipedia featured topics EFL League One play-offs featured content indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Wikipedia featured topics EFL League One play-offs

A tag has been placed on Category:Wikipedia featured topics EFL League One play-offs indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

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Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Wikipedia featured topics EFL League Two play-offs

A tag has been placed on Category:Wikipedia featured topics EFL League Two play-offs indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

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Question -- editing but not logged on?

Thanks the help with archiving. Question for you: When I see an editor who appears to be quite experienced who might be editing but not logged in, what should I do? This is an example: [1]. That editor notified of this discussion here. --David Tornheim (talk) 22:54, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

You should assume that they have chosen to exercise their right not to establish an account. Is there more to your question?--2603:7000:2101:AA00:95FD:29F8:EB8A:7855 (talk) 23:47, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

I respond below. --David Tornheim (talk) 01:46, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Are the edits problematic? Do you suspect they might be violating WP:LOUTSOCK, for example, by double !voting in an RFC or at AFD? If no, you can ignore it. If yes, then you can pursue further action via posting an WP:SPI, asking an admin, or posting at a noticeboard. Hope that helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 00:21, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

In a case like this there are these reasons I ask:

(1) I am concerned an editor may be inadvertently outing themselves and might want their error hidden (without attention), so I wanted to know how to do something discretely.

(2) WP:LOUTSOCK or another effort to distance themselves from trouble they have gotten into before (or sanctions, topic bans or other restrictions) from a previous account that they do not want to be associated with.

(3) using multiple accounts with different IPs so as to make it impossible to see a concerning pattern (either of bias or COI) in a subject area. The subject Voice of America is highly political entity used to advocate U.S. propaganda abroad. So it would be vulnerable to such editing as any major political article. That's why I was concerned to see such an experienced IP with so few edits working on that particular article. (I have seen work in music, movies, and entertainment that I am very confident is done by IPs funded by the industry. But that is a different problem that has long concerned me. If it bothers you too, we could discuss elsewhere.)

Other than being experienced -and- the sensitive subject area, I did not see any specific problem with the edits or recognize it as the work of any other editor. I'm *not* accusing the editor of having done anything wrong. --David Tornheim (talk) 01:46, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps you are not aware of this. But many internet providers - not at all the decision of the user, as is my case - impose on their customers add esses that periodically change. Rather than ones that are static over time. This is not at unique, but given your interest in the area, may perhaps be helpful for you to know. And as you can presumably see by my edits, there is nothing more than a cleaning up of the article, and adherence to RS refs and wp rules, that you will see. I recognize that when it comes to IPs, a few individual editors adopt an assume bad faith approach. But a deeper understanding of non static ip addresses, and a focus on the nature of the edits, may be helpful ways to think about things. --2603:7000:2101:AA00:95FD:29F8:EB8A:7855 (talk) 06:14, 14 February 2024 (UTC) Also -- if either of you have thoughts on this .. and wp:lede .. that would of course be great as nobody seems to be responding for third party opinions, and given your suspicion of me, and the fact that you are looking at my edits, i am obviously not canvassing. https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section&action=edit&section=10 --2603:7000:2101:AA00:95FD:29F8:EB8A:7855 (talk) 06:19, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Based on their response in this section, I think we can rule out #1. I agree that #2 and #3 are a risk here and in any situation where an experienced editor chooses to edit logged out. However at the moment I think policy and community consensus allows it as long as they don't cause trouble and aren't behaving like a known sanctioned user. –Novem Linguae (talk) 01:56, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable. Any thoughts on the music, movie, and entertainment industry? Have you seen the many IPs that appear to be coming from industry marketing? The edits of TheRedundancy125 always concerned me, and I believe I had reported that account somewhere. I wasn't even a little surprised the account was blocked for sockpuppeting. But I have infinite confidence new accounts have sprung up to continue the work to use Wikipedia for free advertising. I'm hoping this problem is being discussed somewhere as I might want to join the effort to address it and to share my observations. --David Tornheim (talk) 02:06, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

WP:NPP and WP:AFC catch and deal with a lot of this stuff when articles are first created. After an article passes NPP/AFC and becomes more established, it's a bit harder to deal with. WP:COIN can be used to get help with the worst cases. –Novem Linguae (talk) 02:35, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Why did you overturn my edit on Andrew Tate page.

Check the Gokhan Saki page.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6khan_Saki

I added the incomplete tag in Andrew Tate's page the same way it is added in Saki's page. This is just one example. I have seen it as a norm in many kickboxers' articles. I am certain no other admin who came across those pages found it to be non-standard. 24thHusbandofDraupathi (talk) 08:39, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

@24thHusbandofDraupathi. I've personally never seen it. But if you're sure it's the norm in kickboxing articles, go ahead and put it back. Are you sure a WP:MAINTENANCETAG wouldn't be a better fit though? For example, {{Missing information|section}}–Novem Linguae (talk) 17:07, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

How is it undue

... to mention what was covered in the press, and was a written statement by a US Congressman, about a person as to which we have an article? Which you deleted here ... https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Patsy_Widakuswara&diff=prev&oldid=1207585013 ?

A US Congressman would seem to quite easily fall within the wp:undue category of a prominent adherent. 2603:7000:2101:AA00:5878:D9D:5E2F:BDE3 (talk) 05:34, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Articles should be based mostly on WP:SECONDARY sources rather than things like press releases from congressmen. Let's discuss this further at Talk:Patsy_Widakuswara so others can see the discussion and participate. –Novem Linguae (talk) 05:35, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

wp:undue and wp:secondary are perhaps somewhat different reasons. But I've explained at that talk page my views on why it meets wp:primary. And point out that there is a secondary source.--2603:7000:2101:AA00:5878:D9D:5E2F:BDE3 (talk) 05:54, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Yapperbot

FYI. I just posted here: User_talk:Yapperbot#Moving_Forward. Is there anyone else I should do some outreach to that could help answer some of the questions? Is there a central place in WP where the coders like to talk to each other about things like this? --David Tornheim (talk) 22:21, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

@David Tornheim. Thanks for the message. I'll respond to your questions on that page. For extra technical help in the future, onwiki you can post at WP:VPT. Or if you prefer live chat, you can post on Discord in General Technical Discussion. Hope that helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 02:24, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

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