Talk:Econophysics

Quantum economics was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 16 April 2024 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Econophysics. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Business Mid‑importance

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Physics Low‑importance

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Economics

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Archives: Index 1

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History section has (maybe) one secondary ref.

If we can't find secondary refs that outline a history of econophysics we need to delete the section. Wikipedia reports on sources not events. Johnjbarton (talk) 14:55, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Book referenced is not a secondary source.

The reference:

Kondratenko, Anatoly. Probabilistic economic theory. Litres, 2022.

has 16 citations on Google scholar, some by Kondratenko and several by David Orrell. The book chapters are synopsis of Kondratenko work, not a review. Johnjbarton (talk) 00:06, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Restructured table of contents in preparation for merger

The result of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Quantum economics was to merge that article into this one. I have reorged the TOC to make context for the merger under "Subfields" Johnjbarton (talk) 01:22, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merger of Quantum economics

A proposal was made to delete the page on Quantum economics. I contested this on April 15, on the basis that the field has its own journal and so on, but a decision was made on April 16 to merge with Econophysics. This decision appears to be based on a single paper (and the only one published in the last five years) which mentions "quantum econophysics" in the title (Arioli and Valente, 2021). Quantum economics is distinct from econophysics because it does not focus exclusively on things like financial statistics and time series, but also considers broader effects from quantum social science such as quantum cognition and quantum game theory. It is therefore not appropriate to merge Quantum economics with Econophysics and again I ask that this decision be revised. Sjm3 (talk) 12:13, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry that the decision did not go the way you hoped. Now that I have looked in to the references in more detail I would urge that quantum economics be deleted altogether. I am struggling to find enough material to include in a paragraph for the merger.

I know you are passionate for this topic, but your arguments are based on criteria that are not relevant for Wikipedia. Future prospects, logic, truth, organizational clarity: none of these matter. The criteria are spelled out in Wikipedia:Notability. Johnjbarton (talk) 16:21, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I completed the merge of quantum economics. If reliable secondary review articles are found the section can be expanded, but based on what I have read this seems unlikely in the near future. Johnjbarton (talk) 18:34, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Psychology is not economics.

I deleted this paragraph

Alternately, quantum statistical mechanics arises in economics from using ideas in psychology of modeling decisions with quantum operators. Any economics model using the Gibbs measure above will map to quantum statistical mechanical models representing quantum decision making.

which had a ref on the first sentence:

"You're not irrational, you're just quantum probabilistic. Researchers explain human decision-making with physics theory". ScienceDaily. 2015-09-14. Retrieved 2024-09-14.

That source is a summary of two psychology papers. I think this content is synthesis. If you disagree you can seek consensus to add the content. Johnjbarton (talk) 02:21, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your synthesis argument is a much better reason to consider not posting this. But I will argue that psychology is very much economics: Daniel Kahneman, a psychologist, was awarded a Nobel prize in economics for his research in behavioral psychology-economics. The two are inseparable anymore. The cited article explicitly mentions quantum mechanics and gives a famous example in economics, the Prisoner's Dilemma, for which the quantum approach is applied. That being said:

I personally don't think the "Quantum Economics" (QE) section should exist in Econophysics - it is not really Econphysics but rather changing the decision variables to quantum operators, which is really just mathematical device for "fuzzy reasoning" as stated by a survey paper I read on QE. I didn't see anything involving physics like phase transitions, dynamical phenomena, etc.

Chatgpt said this:

"Quantum economics primarily uses concepts from quantum mechanics as a framework for modeling economic phenomena, rather than directly addressing physical concepts like phase transitions. In this field, "quantum" often serves as a mathematical device to capture uncertainty, complexity, and non-linear interactions in economic systems.

While there are some parallels—like the idea of states and superposition being analogous to economic agents’ decision-making processes—the focus is more on applying quantum-inspired methods for better modeling and understanding economic behavior rather than directly exploring physical phenomena. Some researchers might draw analogies to phase transitions, but those discussions tend to be more metaphorical than literal.

Overall, quantum economics is more about leveraging quantum concepts to enrich economic theory rather than directly applying the physics of phase transitions."

In summary, thank you for your comment. I now think the entire section should be removed as well as the "Quantum Finance" section, including the comment I made. 2603:8000:8D3F:87BC:FD43:F08B:BECD:31F1 (talk) 03:27, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]