Talk:Pashtuns

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Pashtuns are NOT found in India =

I have noticed that the article implies that they're are pashtun peoples living in india which is completely false. Pashtuns are not found in modern day india. Also, the article fails to properly explain that the census that stated that pashtuns lived in india was during the times of the British empire, during British INdia in the regions which now constitute Pakistan. WIthin the Pashtun communities of Pakistan/Afghanistan, there is much concern for the number of fake Pashtuns/ or pathan claimants from india that look nothing like them, nor speak their language, nor have any cultural, ethnic similarities to them. They claim a pashtun heritage for the sole sake of improving their social position within society and often concoct make believe progenitors, a side effect of the rampant caste system prevailant in india. DNA analysis has proven that they are not Pashtun in any manner or form, and may have been converted by Pashtun rulers to Islam from hinduism, jainism and simply adopted the names of the converter, a common practice in india today. The very few genuine Pashtuns that did live in British India/Mogul india left en masse when the British departed from South Asia, and many of them are no longer Pashtun ethnically having intermarried over successive generations and lost their cultural, genetic, linguistic and even culinary traits. Also, the article states that there are many Afghan refugees living in india as defined by the UN, the majority of whom have now left india for Afghanistan, Pakistan, or settled aborad, furthermore, most of these refugees were Persian speaking members or affiliates of the Northern Alliance as that group was often financed and funded by india in the 90's and there were no significant Pashtun populations within these refugees who by and large settled in Pakistan and parts of Iran. Please make the article more factual and correct this erroneous entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.63.161.16 (talk) 16:04, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

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Pashtuns are found in modern day india I have family living there who are pashtun

Some of the references no longer valid

Hi, I came across this article and I realized some of the references do not exist on the web anymore. In particular references starting with "http://www.zharov.com/dupree/" are gone. I was contemplating taking the references out but it looks like a user with the name "dupree" has been editing this article. Could he/she or anyone else update these references? --Ubardak (talk) 04:54, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Move subsection Putative ancestry to section History and origins

I think the subsection Putative ancestry fits better under section History and origins than under section Pashtuns defined where it is now. The material is more like that in the history section, while the definitions section should be kept more homogenious. What are the thoughts about this? -Pgan002 (talk) 09:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

The inclusion of the putative ancestry section was somewhat controversial to begin with. There's nothing like it in most encyclopedias which will, at most, mention that Pashtuns have moved to other places and were absorbed into various populations as in India and Iran etc. It's also not meant to be historical so much as anthropological and somewhat of a tangent and thus seemed to go best in that section. Since we're talking about groups like the Hindkowans and Persian-speaking Pashtuns, these groups do show links to the Pashtuns, but there's no real history lesson there and their origins are explained in other articles. The history and origins section is a bit crowded as it is as well which could present a problem in terms of placement. Some things to consider. Cheers. Tombseye (talk) 21:52, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

No more Ethnologue please

It is an evangelical site and lists highly unreliable data that is difficult to verify (if at all). This is a featured article so just adding anything and everything is not acceptable. Tombseye (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I've removed it for now until a consensus is reached. My understanding is that there were several conflicts in the past on various articles due to Ethnologue. Critics say that SIL does not abide by the consensus among other linguists. However, I agree with Anupam that Ethnologue is used widely on Wikipedia as source. This matter should probably be brought up on Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics (if it hasn't already). But for the time being I've removing the Ethnologue sources until a compromise is decided. We should probably start off by comparing Ethnologue to other sources and determine which numbers are fringe theories and which numbers reflect the mainstream of scholars. Khoikhoi 20:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Ethnologue is a reliable source. Noor Aalam (talk) 01:21, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Why? And why aren't their figures found elsewhere in many cases? 161,000 Azeris in Armenia?! Did they take their own independent census? Is this the kind of sloppy work people want, that is speculative at best? Tombseye (talk) 16:54, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Pashtun genes

what is the Pashtun genes ? Haplogroup F —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.132.36.121 (talk) 05:28, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Farhad Darya is not Pashtun

He is Tajik/Pashtun mix according to Biographical Encyclopedia of the Modern Middle East and North Africa.

Source: "Nashir, Farhad (1962–)." Biographical Encyclopedia of the Modern Middle East and North Africa. Ed. Michael Fischbach. Vol. 2. Detroit: Gale Group, 2008. 564-566. 2 vols. Gale Virtual Reference Library. Thomson Gale.

“ "PERSONAL HISTORY Nasher was born on 22 September 1962 in a Kunduz, Gozargah, Kabul province of Afghanistan. His father was an ethnic Pashtun and his mother was a Tajik." ”

We can verfiy that Farhad Darya's father is Pashtun but his mother's tajik claim is false unless we can verify it in the same way as for his father. Pashtuns in Afghanistan usually marry their own kind, it is in the west that people marry any race. In very rare cases Pashtuns marry tajiks. So in such cases you gonna have to convince us by providing clear evidence, the stuff you showing is nothing but your usual bull shits. You kharkuss actually think you can fool us with that shit.--119.30.74.77 (talk) 01:01, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

If you didn't get deported from America back to Pakistan for being a Taliban supporter, you would have access to a Philadelphia library's electronic resources and see for yourself that the Biographical Encyclopedia of the Modern Middle East and North Africa says he is half Tajik.

I never been to America yet and if I supported the Taliban that's because under their rule there was peace not just in Afghanistan but in the entire world. Why can't you just show your evidence here so we can verify if wheather or not Farhad Darya's mother is tajik as you claim. IF you can't do that then you're just talking shit as the Americans put it.--119.30.66.211 (talk) 02:43, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Then you lied about living in Philadelphia also just like you lie about everything. America will never let a Taliban supporter like you in. You will be stuck in Pakistan for the rest of your life. If you come here you will be sent straight to Guantanamo Bay. Pakistan is the only place where Taliban like you can hide like rats hiding in their holes. Farhad Darya is half Tajik and I already provided the source for it and now I made it bigger so you can see. If you still can't see it you must be blind in one eye just like Mullah Omar.

You have very limited information about me, most of it is just specelations. You (banned User:Beh-nam) don't live in America, your IP is registered to a place in Canada, meaning you're from Canada. I live in Islamabad and it's where all top government officials and elites of Pakistan live. It would be the last place for Taliban or the poor people to live. The false information you keep showing could be written like this also:

Source: "Nashir, Farhad (1962–)." Biographical Encyclopedia of the Modern Middle East and North Africa. Ed. Michael Fischbach. Vol. 2. Detroit: Gale Group, 2008. 564-566. 2 vols. Gale Virtual Reference Library. Thomson Gale.

“ "PERSONAL HISTORY Nasher was born on 22 September 1962 in a Kunduz, Gozargah, Kabul province of Afghanistan. His father was an ethnic Pashtun and his mother was a Punjabi." ”

So you see anyone can change the shit. I'm not blind, I have 2 beautiful green eyes and I can see 20/20.--119.30.66.211 (talk) 03:08, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Only you are dishonest enough to fake sources. You have been caught doing that many times. Many users on Wikipedia have access to those resources and you can ask them to verify it for you that it says he is half Tajik. You must be poor if you can't afford access to these electronic resources. Don't lie about being rich.

Kharkuss banned User:Beh-nam, I never faked anything and you'r just talking shit again as usual. It's your job to ask them to verify if for you. I never claimed to be rich, and if I'm poor because I have no access to the whatever electronic resources then you must also be poor like me because you also have no access to it. I'm doing a special research on you to see what makes people lie all the time.--119.30.71.201 (talk) 03:49, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I do have access to it, that's where I found this source. I have access to many electronic resources and I can find lots of sources easily. I am not poor like you.

I'm rich in knowledge and if I want to become rich (in money wise) nobody can stop me. I am happy with my life and I have no reasons to lie about things. For each lie you will serve 85,000 years in hell. You cannot hide anything from God, he sees everything you do and knows what your thinking about 24-7. He is aware of your evil thoughts of trying to mislead people.--119.30.71.201 (talk) 03:55, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

"A Pathan looking man from northern Pakistan"?

The IP of banned user: NisarKand placed an image here and claimed the person in the picture is Pashtun. When his dishonest lie was exposed, he changed it to the image description to "A Pathan looking man from northern Pakistan". Now that he admits we don't know that the man is Pathan or not, the image should be removed.

You are the banned User:Beh-nam and you are not allowed to remove appropiate images, in fact you are a proven enemy of Pashtuns so you should not be allowed to even visit this page. Go away and stop vandalizing this and other Pashtun related pages. Let other editors decide if the image be removed or not. The IP you're refering to is used by me and it is also used by 160 million other people of Pakistan. Farsiwans like you have no shame at all, even when your evil actions are exposed you still come back to read this page and think of what other evil action to do next. You are just putting your self lower and lower the more you carry on with this here. Anyway, that image is clearly of a Pathan man and Pathan is not Pashtun but "Punjabi-Pashtun". I know the man personally and he lives in Abbottabad, I have his cell phone number. I'm aware that all this is useless here because I cannot verify his ethnicity this way. So that's why I decided to put a description as "A Pathan looking man from northern Pakistan". You (banned User:Beh-nam who is ashamed to sign his posts) placed many unverifiable images of people of Tajikistan in Tajiks article and claimed that they are ethnic Tajiks. That again proves that you are an evil-minded editor here in Wikipedia.--119.30.74.77 (talk) 00:46, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

You are a proven lier and your claim that you know the man personally is another ridiculous lie of yours. Tajiks are the only Caucasoid ethnic group in Tajikistan (also Russians but they left). So any picture of a Caucasoid person in Tajikistan is a Tajik. With this picture of this man from northern Pakistan we don't know since there are many ethnic groups there including Kashmiris, Kalash, etc who are all Caucasoid and look similar to eachother.

You and unsourced POVs. You talk shit as usual. Tajikistan is made up of many ethnic groups and forget about that I don't care what you do with Tajiks article. You can add images of people of Scotland or England there if it makes you happy but you're not allowed to vandalize this Pashtun people article. If you really wanna know about the man's ethnicity you can easily contact Steve Evans and ask him to help you.--119.30.66.211 (talk) 02:56, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

There are many ethnicities in Tajikistan but Tajiks are the only Caucasoid ones. If Steve Evans knew the man's ethnicity for sure he would have put it in the description.

No, he doesn't place people's ethnicity under the images that he uploads to Flickr.--119.30.66.211 (talk) 03:10, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Does Zalmay Khalilzad represent Pashtuns?

Zalmay Khalilzad is a Persianized Pashtun born in Mazar-e Sharif but his ancestry is Pashtun from Laghman. Zalmay Khalilzad has been a member of the Bush administration which has killed tens of thousands of Pashtuns. He also does not speak any Pashto and speaks in Persian or English. He is married with an American and has given American names to his children. This indicates that he does not care for Pashtuns or being Pashtun. So how can he be representative of Pashtuns?

It does not matter what Khalilzad do, think, whom his children or wife are or who he works for and or where he lives. He is an ethnic Pashtun and he does not need to be representative of Pashtuns in order for his image to be placed in the article for Pashtun people. As a matter of fact, he is a very patriotic Pashtun and he is the one organizing and lecturing all Pashtun leaders in Afghanistan, especially Hamid Karzai. Khalilzad is was born to ethnic Pashtun father and mother in Mazari Sharif in nothern Afghanistan. There is a large number of Pashtuns in Mazari Sharif and I can prove this with clear evidence. Khalilzad wants the United States to nuke Iran and the 80 million Persians living in Iran. Khalilzad did not kill a single Pashtun, he helped put them on the throne in Afghanistan, with the help of George W. Bush and his army. As many Pashtuns that died (may Allah bless their clean souls and grant them heaven), there were killed same number of non-Pashtuns as well. Khalilzad does speak Pashto, so do all Afghans even those who are not Pashtuns speak Pashto. You are an evil Shiite banned User:Beh-nam and you're number one enemy is Pashtuns because they are Sunni and you will do whatever in your power to come here everyday and try to vandalize Pashtun related articles by trying to make them look as bad. Your actions will be combated all the time until you stop.--119.30.74.77 (talk) 00:54, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Yusuf Pashtun

We should add a picture of Yusuf Pashtun. We can be sure that he is 100% Pashtun because of his last name.