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United States of Africa

If Africa united, don't you think it would prosper and quickly turn into a global superpower? (Mr. Met 13 (talk) 04:28, 19 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Hello, Mr. Met (funny name by the way. We only report on experts and academics opinions and predictions. And so far, there hasn't been any case for a united Africa as a potential superpower. The African Union is only six years old and in the embryonic stages of development, far behind the EU. A united Africa would probably be hampered by extreme poverty, famine, corruption, AIDS, internal conflict, disease, ethnic cleansing, etc. before it emerges onto the world stage. But if we see further African intergration and notable speculation on its status as a potential superpower, than we'll add it. --Hobie (talk) 14:41, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No need to ridicule the statement. Africa has great potential. If they can get together (at least no fighting) the future is going to be Africa.Chanakyathegreat (talk) 13:45, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also Met, no need for terms like United states of Africa, we know the place as the African continent.Chanakyathegreat (talk) 13:45, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but it wont matter if they could get it together, as 'Hobie Hunter' has said they are a mix of 'all' of the poorest countrys in the world and the EU is a mix of the richest countrys in the world, the EU can afford to expand were as the AU cant afford to support the majority of its citizens, and 'Hobie Hunter' didnt ridicule the statement he told the complete truth Alexsau1991 (talk) 12:40, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Africa is having the largest problem in the world with ethnic and religious conflicts between muslims and christians and have in many perspectives not developed very much since the sixties so the idea of Africa to even unite to a prosperous entity and change the position of being exporting nearly only raw materials must be the first concern, and even that happens it has be very far way to go for being a superpower. Awakened82 (talk) 10:08, 28 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Introductory section

The following is the introduction as it stands now (italics added to distinguish from my question):

A number of states have been speculated to be in the process of turning into superpowers at some point of the ongoing 21st century, mentioning several candidates. Whether China,[3] the European Union,[4] India,[5] or Russia,[6] will be future superpowers is a matter of ongoing debate. The most common belief held is that only the United States currently fulfills the criteria to be considered a superpower. It is a matter of debate regarding Russia's status as a possible future superpower.[7] Brazil is considered to be a potential great power.[8][9]

The record of such predictions has not been perfect. For example, in the 1980s, political and economic analysts erroneously predicted that Japan would eventually accede to superpower status, due to its large population, huge GDP, and high economic growth at that time.[10]

Most of that first paragraph seems out of place. Specifically, the following would make more sense:

A number of states have been speculated to be in the process of turning into superpowers at some point of the ongoing 21st century. Among the most commonly mentioned are China, the European Union and Russia. However, the record of such predictions has not been perfect. For example, in the 1980s, political and economic analysts erroneously predicted that Japan would eventually accede to superpower status, due to its large population, huge GDP, and high economic growth at that time.[10]

The article could then go into detail on each of these candidates (and others). The sentence about Brazil is particularly out of place as it is called a potential great power - a totally different article. I would change this myself but I'm not really sure what to do about the links. Therefore, I'm putting it forward as a proposal.Khajidha (talk) 20:44, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]


hmm. Good point, I'll see if I can change it tommorrow, and see if I can still keep the links. Thanks for the advice. Deavenger (talk) 01:56, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Happy to help. Are there only these four possibilities? Should the historical prediction of Japan as a possible superpower be described? Should more time be given to the idea that superpowers are a thing of the past?Khajidha (talk) 05:43, 17 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hey. India, EU, Russia, and China are the 4 most discussed possibilities that you can see are often debated by acacdemics. There are some that might have 1 or 2 other people, but not nearly enough to make it notable, and somes times it's not from reliable sources. As for Japan, I'm not sure yet. We should ask some other members first. Also, I wouldn't quite say that superpowers are a thing of the past. As for expanding each country, I've been working on that. I have finished the India subsections, and I'm working on the China subsections. However, I'm trying to finish several books talking about China as a potential superpower, so that will take a while. Then, I plan to go to EU, and Russia. Once those countries are done, I or some other user will post it up, and work on improving them as we go along.Deavenger (talk) 15:24, 19 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

NOTE: Brazil and the word "superpower"

While there are references in the media to Brazil as a food superpower or energy superpower, that casual use of the word "superpower" (meaning roughly "a world leader in" that category) should not be confused with categorizing the nation as a superpower. Proofreader77 (talk) 18:56, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. We have dealt with this issue before. Looking at sources and references, Brazil can be considered a potential great power, but not a actual potential superpower like Russia, China, India, or E.U. Deavenger (talk) 19:12, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse my note "out of the blue"  :), I was RC patrolling and noticed someone had inserted an edited map in the "Potential superpower" section of the Superpower article to color in Brazil ... and was just covering the bases. Proofreader77 (talk) 19:23, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Do not forget that the nature of this article is speculative, like a weather forecast. There is nothing absolute when predicting the future of developing countries where corruption, poverty and social inequalities are endemic. Anything can happen. It is wishful thinking to ignore that countries like India and China at certain point in time will have problems feeding their huge populations or getting enough energy to fuel their growing manufacturing and transport sectors. Oil is not an abundant resource and they have not being tested on these fields as the current powers have. There is always the risk of social turmoil and violent revolutions if the needs of a large parts of the population are not satisfied. The current global financial crisis and food crisis are providing example of that. Statistical figures like poverty index, GINI coefficient, HDI and others show that these countries have very difficult problems to overcome if they were to become superpowers. I cannot imagine a superpower where hundreds of millions live in slums or where the country is facing a form of civil war. The notion of that is just ridiculous.--tequendamia (talk) 22:06, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Brazil again?

I'm sorry to point this out, maybe i'm being a little bit rude, but as a brazilian with studies in this area i find the idea of Brazil as a potential superpower utterly ridiculous. By any stretch of imagination Brazil can be cited as having a power projection capability like the US or the URSS(the only known superpowers) in the near future. That the country has some relevance in some specific areas and some projection on a regional level doesnt mean he will be able to project power over states on another continent in this century... i find it unlikely that the reasons given to add Brazil to this list suffice for any person with at least some level of knowledge on this matter. Furthermore the new section on Brazil doesnt cite any decent references. Please, someone with more knowledge about editing take the appropriate measures about this matter, and i find more discussion is needed if someone really wants to add it. Thanks folks ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.54.230.185 (talk) 11:52, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is a speculative article, so it should be ridiculous too to imagine that China with its more than 700 million of very poor and uneducated country side inhabitants could become a superpower. Utmost it will be a large economy. If you think that India is about 30 years behind China in development then it is even more ridiculous to have India in the list. When you visit these countries you notice that the most developed and most egalitarian (without reaching the levels of egalitarianism of US) is actually Brazil, then you understand that Brazil have the best chances of first reaching the status of a superpower. Notice also that from the developing list, Brazil is the only country that attracts migrants from all over the world, mainly from Europe and that this trend is likely to increase in pace as Brazil grows richer and richer, and therefore compensating its own demographics against countries like China and India. So, it is obvious that Brazil will be the new US, not India or China.--tequendamia (talk) 13:51, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

From what I can see the addition of Brazil looks to be just WP:SYN so I think it shouldn't be included. I have elaborated on such things before, so I will just copy and past from my previous statements. We are not here to create our own opinions and post it on Wikipedia, it is actually officially banned:

Wikipedia:No original research : Wikipedia does not publish original research or original thought. This includes unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position

We must also avoid creating our own conclusions by doing research here and drawing our own conclusions from them:

Synthesis of published material which advances a position : Material published by reliable sources can inadvertently be put together in a way that constitutes original research. Synthesizing material occurs when an editor comes to a conclusion by putting together different sources. If the sources cited do not explicitly reach the same conclusion, or if the sources cited are not directly related to the subject of the article, then the editor is engaged in original research.

We should also not post opinions about what may happen in the future, because one can never know what tomorrow brings:

Wikipedia is not a crystal ball : Articles that present extrapolation, speculation, and "future history" are original research and therefore inappropriate. While scientific and cultural norms continually evolve, we cannot anticipate that evolution but must wait for it to happen. Of course, we do and should have articles about notable artistic works, essays, or credible research that embody predictions. [..] "Future history" is welcome at Future Wikia, where original research is allowed to some extent and fact-based speculations are welcome.

As you see official policies are in agreement. We should only use Academic accredited sources that we can cite via Wikipedia:Reliable sources and Wikipedia:Verifiability. Do you have any sources that back that opinion? If not it needs to be removed. -- Phoenix (talk) 03:19, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SYN applies to everything said in this article. The article is basically a BRIC+EU. In the same way as some people see China as a future superpower there are many more who see it a a future super-disappointment, the same has been said about India and Brazil, however, this article only shows one side, like a compilation of wishfull thoughts by analysts.--tequendamia (talk) 08:01, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No, it actually doesn't. From the SYN page, Synthesis occurs when an editor puts together multiple sources to reach a novel conclusion that is not in any of the sources.. Many of the sources for EU, India, China, and Russia have it one group academics say their opinion on the country/organization becoming a superpower. And another group of academics stating their own reasons of why it wouldn't be a superpower. And for all the potential superpowers, it's like that with RS. However, as Phoenix pointed out, almost all the sources for Brazil save one or two are SYN, OR, etc. Not to mention, Brazil (besides that it isn't considered a potential superpower, but a potential great power), the entire thing is written like an advertisement. It doesn't mention anything that Brazil has to overcome. Even the EU section has stuff the EU has to overcome, and the EU is way more developed then the other potential superpowers and Brazil. If we go on using SYN or OR like the Brazil section has, then we can make countries like Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, and Japan seem like superpowers. Deavenger (talk) 22:06, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think Brazil should be given a chance (again), but we need to look at the sources one by one to see if the sources are reliable and if they belong here (with that I mean that they really touch the subject and aren't just nationalistic advertising... or something). Swedish pirate (talk) 14:15, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I looked at the sources for Brazil again, and problem is, most of them are from what looks like blogs, some are just forums, just mention the word superpower in the title only, or just say, it's a superpower move. And other ones just call it just an economic superpower (which needs it's own article). Out of all the sources for brazil, [1], this is the only real RS one that doesn't just mention superpower in it's title, and calls it a plain superpower instead of something focused like economic, oil, agricultue. However, you can go through the sources also.
And yesterday, I removed several sources from China, Russia, EU, and India (especially) that just mentioned something like economic superpower only, or was other forms of unreliable, etc.Deavenger (talk) 22:06, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that Brazil's segment of the "Potential superpowers" page is a little too "glowing" and it does seem like some national advertising. There seem to be no faults to Brazil, and the author of that segment makes it seem as if it is absolutely inevitable that Brazil will be a superpower. There needs to be, in my opinion, more unbiased writing on the subject, as Brazil is the only "potential superpower" without any flaws, apparently. I also agree that Brazil might become a great power, but I doubt a superpower. It seems a little crazy that there are FIVE potential superpowers and furthermore, Russia, China and the EU are more universally approached as "potential superpowers" than either India or Brazil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.247.22.232 (talk) 21:58, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. Both Brazil and India are more like considered Potential Great powers if anything. Deavenger (talk) 22:59, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I think it's relevant to point out that in the beginning of this article, it states that: "In the 1980's, it was widely expected that Japan too would become a superpower, due a large population, huge GDP and high growth rate." Yet, Japan had very few military capabilities and even today, it relies very much on the United States for its defense. I think the notion of Brazil being a superpower is the same as Japan being a superpower in the 1980s. It had been anticipated, but didn't happen. As said before, Brazil has always been subjected to prediction of global power, but has yet to fulfill them. You stated that Brazil has been developing for 100 years, if that is the case, why is it not a great power already?

Brazil may have economic power, but that is one component of being a "superpower." How many potential superpowers can there be? I think if we needed to wittle down to the bare and most probable potential superpowers, Brazil would go first, then India and then Russia. It would be the EU and China that have the best chance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.247.22.232 (talk) 23:27, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It appears that the argument for Brazil's inclusion has been debunked thouroughly in Swedish pirate's analysis. After looking through the discussion as well as the section for Brazil on the page, it is ludicrous. The whole section reads like a tourist brochure: "From Wall Street to the World Trade Organization, Brazil is finally punching its weight with a booming economy and stronger global leadership." This should not be in an encyclopedia. I'd like to add that this project, due to the ocassion flare-up such as this only cites academic sources. Most of those provided that merit Brazil's inclusion are either news articles or blogs, or simply refer to it as an "agricultural or "oil" superpower, not a general one. In general, members of the media have a poor grasp of the extent that the term superpower implies, and will apply to any emerging power. These reek of weasel words. Brazil’s gross domestic product growth rate has skyrocketed from a passable one percent to an impressive nearly six percent. It has been developing in its sometime madcap way for over 100 years." This violates NPOV, no crystal ball, no synthesis, and no original research. It would be best to scrap the entire section. Brazil does not merit inclusion. --Hobie (talk) 04:59, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Besides the entire thing is written like a huge advertisement, an overwhelming majority of the sources aren't academic or reliable sources to be used in the article, leaving only one source. And that isn't enough for this article. While there are still several sources for India, EU, China, and Russia (probably) that won't work for this article, there is still plenty of reliable sources written by academics.Deavenger (talk) 05:27, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Since the sources provided did not pass the WP:Reliable Source Test below I have removed the section. -- Phoenix (talk) 07:26, 14 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Checking Sources Provided

Ok so lets check the sources provided and see if they are considered WP:Reliable Sources or if they are Synthesis, not relevant to the article at hand, or just plain WP:Original Research. I wont have time to check them all after inserting them here, so please vet them or take these sources to the Reliable Sources noticeboard.

  1. Please read up on Wikipedia:Verifiability#Reliable sources before vetting the sources
  2. Please leave your name next to any comments you make
  3. If there is major disagreement please take this discussion to the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard

Thanks and I hope this helps :-) -- Phoenix (talk) 23:08, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Economy and Business by Official Website of the Brazilian Government
    It's nothing but a bunch of facts, belongs on the Brazil page , and there's not even analysis on whether Brazil is a potential superpower or not. Deavenger (talk) 02:42, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • South America's thriving superpower by Canadexport
    Dubious if it really belongs here. It only has the word superpower in the title and seems to analyse the relationship between the canadian and brazilian markets and not whether Brazil is a superpower or not. Swedish pirate (talk) 10:36, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Brazil will be a superpower by Investments SP
    just some random article pointing out the highlights on one of the economist articles above. If the economist article fits here without it being OR or SYN, then just use the economist article. I'll let Phoenix do the rest. But as he once said, "If there has to be a condition before the word Superpower appears then that is not a proper source for the article. It is about Potential Superpowers not Potential Economic/Energy/Agricultural Superpowers", this goes for India, Russia, EU and China also. Deavenger (talk) 02:42, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ridiculous analysis

The ridiculous analysis on the sources that was applied above, if applied to the rest of the sources of this article would lead up to the same results, that none of the countries cited here will be a superpower. Reality is showing that there is nothing like a full fledged superpower, the status some here already claim for India. So if making an A-bomb turns India (a country who can hardly talk to its neighbours and feed its own people) into a superpower then Israel and Iran should by the same logic be considered full fledged superpowers, and with more reason Brazil which is many light-years ahead in development.--tequendamia (talk) 08:33, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I found a link where Brazil is called a potential superpower again. http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761590309/Great_Powers.html --84.161.110.26 (talk) 19:50, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That says potential great powers. Great power ≠ superpower. Deavenger (talk) 20:07, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Map

Is it necessary to show the EU candidate/potential candidate countries? They seem to clutter up the map legend. None of the candidates is anywhere near being a superpower on its own and would only become part of one as part of the EU so it seems a little silly to have them colored in at this time.Khajidha (talk) 23:15, 31 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You are right. Of the countries initially included in the article only China is currently considered a world power due to the cheer size of its REAL economy and their seat at the UNSC. In the EU there are 5 of the largest economies on earth, which means their combined wealths alone make it the largest economy on earth, now imagine if we include the extended EU.--tequendamia (talk) 22:21, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Let the candidates coloured. The EU is still growing (Croatia and maybe Iceland are the next members) and this should be shown cause it shows the developement and the potential of the EU. And a country like Turkey will increase the weight of the EU specially in the muslim world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.161.73.237 (talk) 10:48, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
First off I agree that Candidates should be shown, not so much potential candidates. If we are to keep potential candidates, Kosovo should be shown as the EU recognises Kosovo as a separate entity from Serbia as a potential candidate under UNSC Res 1244. Also British and French overseas territories should be shown on the map. Puerto Rico for US, Taiwan with lines through it should be shown on the map for China. I am unable to edit SVG maps, who is willing to perform these edits. Ijanderson (talk) 18:13, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I have no idea how to make maps. But if I remember correctly, there was a map that didn't have the potential EU canidates, so we just need to look back and we should be able to find it. Deavenger (talk) 20:01, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If there are shown the candidates and the potential candidates, the ukraine should also be coloured as one of them. Its often discussed in the EU and the ukraine and its the declared aim of the governemt to join the eu.--84.161.78.62 (talk) 16:30, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comparison table

It would be very ilustrative to include a table comparing diferent economic figures of the "potential superpowers" such as real GDP, GDP(nominal), GDP(PPP), Human Development Index (HDI), Human Poverty Index, etc., and perhaps explain how each country will overcome the problems that the negative figures in those tables reflect. --tequendamia (talk) 21:51, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not a good idea, it will put India in shame.

Well its a good thing we don't live in a hypothetical universe of frozen time, seeing as how all countries have had to overcome the obstacles of development with India not being an exception to the list. Seriously, the amount of India hate in this talk discussion is hysterical, that part of the world has always been wealthy and to undo 200 years of colonialism is obviously going to be difficult. "Not a good idea, it will put India in shame" is a POV statement and does not belong in this encyclopedia.(Sunnysgrewal (talk) 04:16, 23 February 2009 (UTC))[reply]

United StatesUnited States ChinaChina European UnionEuropean Union IndiaIndia RussiaRussia
GDP (nominal) 14,330,000
(2nd, 2008) 		4,222,000
(4th, 2008) 		18,930,000
(1st, 2008) 		1,237,000
(13th, 2008) 		1,757,000
(9th, 2008)
GDP (PPP) 14,580,000
(2nd, 2008) 		7,800,000
(3d, 2008) 		14,960,000
(1st, 2008) 		3,319,000
(5th, 2008) 		2,221,000
(8th, 2008)
General GDP growth 1.40% (2008 est.) 9.80% (2008 est.) 1.50% (2008 est.) 7.30% (2008 est.) 6.00% (2008 est.)
GDP growth (2000-2007), annualized 5% 16.1% 13.6% 25.7%
GDP growth (2006-2007) 4.90% 22.59% 25.34% 39.93%
Human Development Index (2006) Rank(Index) 15(0.950) 94(0.762) _(0.950) 132(0.609) 76(0.803)
Military spending 713,100,000,000
(1st, 2009) 		70,242,645,000
(3rd, 2009) 		311,920,000,000
(2nd, 2007) 		32,700,000,000
(10th, 2009-2010) 		50,000,000,000
(6th, 2009)
Nuclear weapons stockpile 5,535 160-400 ~550 100-140 8,800
Army Size (total troops) 3,385,400
(8th, 2006 estimate) 		7,024,000
(3rd, 2006 estimate) 		3,773,300
(6th, 2006 estimate) 		3,796,100
(5th, 2006 estimate)
Army Size (active troops) 1,473,900
(2nd,2008 estimate) 		2,255,000
(1st, 2006 estimate) 		1,325,000
(3rd, 2006 estimate) 		1,068,000
(5th, 2006 estimate)
Percent of population in poverty 12% (2004 estimate) 8% (2006 estimate) 25% (2002 estimate) 15.8% (2007 estimate)

Do you mean something like this? Swedish pirate (talk) 16:31, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly include the military and army sizes. As well as economic growth possibly. Hopefully, we can have a reliable sources that state the importance of these for qualities for the potential superpowers. Economics I can get easily, it's the military stuff I might have a hard time on, any help? Deavenger (talk) 00:39, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This is for the nuclear weapons at least [2] "Superpower diplomacy is thus closely related to nuclear weapons". Swedish pirate (talk) 06:12, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I added GDP growth, fixed India's GDP PPP thing, military sizes (though I didn't add total size of armed forces). However, I don't know the numbers for the European Union. As for the source, I think it's a reliable source as it came from another encyclopedia. But let's see what everybody else thinks, and I'll find some sources for military and other economics, economics shouldn't be too hard. However, China's poverty percentage I find hard to believe, so I'll try double checking on thatDeavenger (talk) 15:07, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Since the EU is counted in, they have new places. Swedish pirate (talk) 20:05, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oh yeah. My bad. All we need to do is find the rest of the EU rankings, I think I got some sources stating the importance of each of these qualities. Deavenger (talk) 23:19, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Not that I doubt their validity, but can you provide them, so that I, and the rest, can have a look? Swedish pirate (talk) 06:08, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah sure. Just give me until Sunday as I have some important tests going on in school. Deavenger (talk) 20:04, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No problem, take your time :) Swedish pirate (talk) 20:41, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Several of these sources I took from the Superpower page. Tell me what you think. [3], [4]. These two talk about the importance of a superpower having nuclear weapons, sizable population, economics (all relative to great powers), and supplies like energy and food, and the second one talks about domestic cohesion. [5], military, economics, and of course nukes. So this takes care of the military, nukes, and economy. I'll look up some sources for poverty, and english, and see if you can think of more sources, better sources, or any more categories. Deavenger (talk) 20:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, looks good enough, but should English really be a category? I mean, I don't know how many people in the former Soviet Union were able to speak English, but I've a hard time imagening it to be all too many. Swedish pirate (talk) 13:21, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I remember seeing a source that English right now is pretty much the global language. Seeing how that's the one common language used worldwide as a lingua franca. And it's pretty much the official languages in organizations like the UN, IMF, World Bank, etc. But I removed the category now. Deavenger (talk) 21:29, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
ha ha. English language, that's a good point. Given that the Anglosphere is bankrupt and that all the real money is now kept in China, you should expect Chinese to become more relevant than English in the coming decade. Of course, Indians tend to believe that what made UK and US rich was the language. I find that belief really funny indeed.--tequendamia (talk) 14:02, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hey! One more line for Chinese language then.--tequendamia (talk) 14:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Superpower criteria

The Soviet Union and the United States fulfilled the superpower criteria in the following ways:

USSR USA
Political Strong socialist state. Permanent seat on the UN Security Council. Strong ties with Eastern Europe and the developing world. Strong ties with anti-colonialist movements and labour parties. Strong capitalist federation/liberal democracy. Permanent seat on the UN Security Council plus two allies with permanent seats. Strong ties with Western Europe, Latin America, British Commonwealth, and several East Asian countries.
Geographic Largest country in the world, with a land area of 22.27 million km²[1] Third largest country in the world, with an area of approximately 9.6 million km².[2]
Cultural Wielded influence through communist governments and left-wing dictatorships and organizations around the world. Rich cultural heritage based around classical music, ballet, literature, theatre, chess. [citation needed] Wielded influence by supporting right-wing dictatorships in undeveloped countries and democracies in developed countries.[citation needed] Massive influence in music, TV, films, art, and fashion throught the world through such mediums as Hollywood. Freedom of speech and other guaranteed rights for residents.[citation needed]
Military Essentially land-based: one of the largest armed forces in the world and one of the two largest air forces in the world. One of the world's strongest navies. The world's largest stockpile of nuclear weapons for the second half of the Cold War. Essentially naval-based advanced military with the highest military expenditure in the world[3]. World's largest navy surpassing the next 17 largest navies combined,[4] bases all over the world, particularly in an incomplete "ring" bordering the Warsaw Pact to the West, South and East. Largest nuclear arsenal in the world during the first half of the Cold War. One of the largest armies in the world. One of the two largest, and most advanced, air forces in the world. Powerful military allies in Western Europe (NATO) with their own nuclear weapons.
Economic Second largest economy in the world. Enormous mineral and energy resources and large farming areas (well, although Russia exported food in the days of the Tsar, the USSR always had to IMPORT FOOD (due to the inefficiency of Communist economics), even taking out an IMF loan in the 1980's to do so). Largely self-sufficient. Marxist economic theory based primarily on production: industrial production directed by centralized state organs. By far the largest economy in the world. Large resources of minerals, energy resources, metals, and timber, large and modernized farming industry alongside an enormous industrial base. US Dollar as the dominant world reserve currency. Western economic theory based on supply and demand: production determined by customers' demands. Allied G7 major economies.
Demographic Had a population of 286.7 million in 1989, the third largest on Earth behind China and India.[1] Had a population of 248.7 million in 1990, at that time the fourth largest on Earth.[5]
For the discussion, in this article which countries are more likely to fulfill the superpower criteria the USA and The Soviet Union exhibit in this comparison?--tequendamia (talk) 19:06, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Probably only EU. But seeing how all the sources we have are from different academics and experts in the subject, and they all have their own reasons to believe that one of the four countries/unions one the article are going to be superpowers, or some even believe are already superpowers. As we have 8 different experts saying why they believe China will be/ or is a superpower, 14 different experts for EU, 7 for India, and 7 for Russia, without the sources being OR or SYN. Deavenger (talk) 19:45, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I have noticed, most of your sources are just journalist or news presenters from TV. Nothing serious, just propaganda.--tequendamia (talk) 05:06, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. Parag Khanna. He's written a book on this entire subject, and is an expert in IR and Geopolitics. Same for George Friedman, Fareed Zakaria, Amy Chua, Adrian Hyde-Price, Mark Leonard, John McCormick, Jeremy Rifkin, Andrew Reding, Clyde Prestowitz, Robyn Meredith, Pranab Bardhan, Ivan Krastev, Laurent Cohen-Tanugi, Martin Jacques, Steven Rosefielde, Mike Ritchie, Susan Shirk, Shujie Yao, and Geoffrey Murphay. Then we also have politicians like Romano Prodi, Recep Tayyip, Alexander Stubb. Then we have people who have written books on the subject like Daniel Lak, T.R Reid, R.J Guttman, and think tanks like The Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars and National Intelligence Council. And that's all without it being OR or SYN. Lastly, if all my sources were pure propaganda or OR , the other users would have deleted it in a second, especially since they're so strict on OR, SYN, and propaganda. (P.S. I only added maybe 5 sources at most, and most of them except for 1 or 2 are books). Deavenger (talk) 22:45, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you look at the Superpower Criteria table, India only satisfies the last one. Yet, the only two superpowers in that table were always smaller in population that India and China. So at the end India satisfies a requirement that only makes it a cheap labour superpower. No matter how your selected sources want to paint it reality speaks for itself. India's Human Development Index is the lowest among all large countries for which it won't be yet a developed country for the next 100 years.--tequendamia (talk) 01:05, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yet if you did some actual historical research, both US and USSR had still high levels of poverty and low levels of development in the aftermath of WWII, when they were considered superpowers. Reality is, only one of these countries are going to be a superpower, no matter what the sources say, and chances are, it's only the EU. Deavenger (talk) 01:08, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
WHAT? After WWII, the US was economically the most powerful state in the world by a million miles. Where have you been the last 70 years??? Try reading a book on the 1950's sometime. China will most definitely be a superpower by 2020, as is seen by its GDP growth and its population. The only prob with China is that it's becoming such a resource vacuum, other nations can easily contain it by regulating the amount of resources (especially oil) that it needs. The same is true of the EU. India has the potential to be a superpower, but their GDP growth simply hasn't climbed like China's has. As for Russia, their days are gone (hell, Italy has a higher GDP than they have). The US will continue to be a superpower, but maybe not as dominant as before. As for Brazil being a superpower, dream on. As for the EU, while they have the money, they don't have a common identity, they have no common, credible defense, many of their nations are closer to the US than to other EU nations, they are dependent on foreign resources (esp. Russian oil), but lack strategic military/economic positioning (like the US has) to secure those resources, and Europeans have little stomach for conflict. Hopefully, in the future, people will be wiser than some of the people on this website and decide that there is little to gain from the world having multiple superpowers besides renewed Global War and the death of the human race.68.164.3.124 (talk) 22:52, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, they became superpowers because they were able to defeat everyone else in a war and imposed their rules.--tequendamia (talk) 01:49, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Lucky for you the US won the war and imposed its rules. The alternative would have been a murderous nightmare.68.164.3.124 (talk) 22:56, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Strange map / Turkey not part of the EU

The current map displays the EU and its candidate countries. As it is unclear if or when these countries can join, I think it was better to have the status quo (without candidates) presented here.

EU

Looking at all datas in this dicussion and other ones many datas if Usa are a superpower EU is THE SUPERPOWER. Many things must be changed in this article about supepowers.With the 862% of global debts/gdp how can be Usa a Superpower? Be honest!WORLDPOWER27 (talk) 18:02, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Look debt is not the only factor--and BTW, the countries that hold the US debt are just as vulnerable as is the US for having that debt; besides, if those nations canceled the US debt, the only one benefiting from that would be the US, and the cancelers would be utterly ruined. Suck on that Popsicle Debt-Boy. Answer me this, IF RUSSIA AND THE GULF STATES CUT OFF OIL TO THE EU, WHAT WOULD THE EU DO??? The US could always militarily secure the resources it needs (and, funnily enough, use EU nations to do it). Can the EU say the same??? No, they can't--thus, THE EU IS NOT A SUPERPOWER!68.164.3.124 (talk) 23:01, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
First, majority of academics still believe US is a superpower, while they are split over whether EU is one or not. Not too mention, it's debt is only 99.95% of it's GDP, as it's external debt is about 13 trillion dollars, while it's economy by GDP (nominal) is above 14 trillion dollars. It's debt to ratio is still positive. Also, due to US's military and economic power, and how much say it has in international relations, it's still considered a superpower. And that's being honest. Deavenger (talk) 23:12, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Majority of academics are to consider EU first superpower. You don't consider in the debt the debts of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac guaranteed by USA.The global debt / gdp in USA is 862% while in EU 140%.The global debt is the public + the private debt.EU is first in all the main economical datas(check also in this discussion Comparison Table).EU countries have weapons to destroy Earth more than once so all other weapons are unuseful.Do you think that EU hasn't good relationships all over the world? I remember you that many EU countries are born before than USA.So be realistic.Come in EU and you'll see that people here doesn't consider anymore Usa a superpower.US citizens are considered like commom people of other countries.Stop dreaming.WORLDPOWER27 (talk) 16:50, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think the US still Qualify. Going on what the documentary I.O.U.S.A says about the debt and the economy it maybe in a mess but its not collapsed yet. Wonx2150 (talk) 11:07, 3 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

An interesting comment on video...Will the EU Ever Become a Superpower? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.225.79.214 (talk) 15:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've watched a lot of documentaries and read books that support without doubt EU is over all other political beings.You can check books,also a lot of US sources ...stop dreaming.This article is very troubled,in fact at the top there's the warning...there's PROPAGANDA!In EU talking of Usa as supeprower people laugh!Tell US jokes to other parts of world.151.60.119.120 (talk) 16:35, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply] 


 WHY IS EVERYBODY SO KEEN TO BE A SUPERPOWER??? SO WE COULD HAVE A REDO, BUT ON A GLOBAL SCALE, OR WORLD WAR I AND KILL 
 MILLIONS OF PEOPLE??? STOP THE HUBRIS!!! STOP THE MADNESS FOR GOD'S SAKES!!! SEEK PEACE AND PROSPERITY NOT THE FALSE 
 GLORY OF PRIDE!!!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.164.3.124 (talk) 22:34, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Japan?

World's second largest economy, just built helicopter carriers (which may potentially be converted into fixed-wing carriers), substantial military, population of 100 million-plus, touted as a potential super-power for most of the 70's,80's, and early 90's. Yeah, I know, if I want it included I should write it myself, but firstly I don't want to include something which the people who have this page on their watch-lists don't like, and secondly I think others might do a better job of it. FOARP (talk) 12:03, 10 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some other member or I can write the section for you. However, like all of wikipedia, it's not about what we think. You have to bring some academically reliable sources that aren't OR or SYN. If you can bring enough of those sources (from 2000, not the ones from 70's or 80's please), and they are reliable sources, that can preferably show why academics think Japan will become a superpower, or what academics are saying that Japan has to fix in order to become a superpower, or why Japan will not be a superpower. If you bring enough sources, and all the members look them over and think they're fine, then I'll write the Japan section for you. If you want some good examples of sources, look at the China and European sections. As they have sources that state that they're superpowers, emerging superpowers, or potential superpowers. And not sources that say military superpower, or economic superpower without that same sources saying that the author believes that makes it or will make it a superpower. Hope this helps. Deavenger (talk) 16:01, 10 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think there's a pretty strong case against Japan becoming a superpower. They've had a stagnated economy since the early 1990s, and recently a rapidly shrinking economy. They have a shrinking population. And of course they have a pacifist constitution which leads to very limited participation in foreign affairs of a military nature. Further, the rapid rise of China (and to a lesser degree South Korea) dilutes its influence even on a local scale, never mind a global one. TastyCakes (talk) 14:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Japan can't be a superpower because it is totally dependent on foreign sources of resources, and it is unlikely that the world would let it develop the military and start to secure these foreign sources. Japan is better off seeking fuller relations and even integration with the US than going back to the days of the Rising Sun.68.164.3.124 (talk) 22:37, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ a b Library of Congress Country Studies
  2. ^ www.intute.ac.uk
  3. ^ www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm
  4. ^ |Weighing the US Navy Defense & Security Analysis, Volume 17, Issue 3 December 2001 , pages 259 - 265
  5. ^ www.census.gov
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