Talk:Maremmano-Abruzzese Sheepdog

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Dogs Start‑class Mid‑importance

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Italy Start‑class Low‑importance

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Possible copyvio

I have sent email to thewestlord@yahoo.com, which is the email address on the page from which this came, asking whether they're the ones who posted it and release their copyright, or whether we need to remove it. So I'm letting this sit for a moment... Elf | Talk 03:48, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

OK, when I asked about whether OK to use under GFDL or PD, got this response:

Wikipedia .. you the best site ever.

feel free to use the text anyway you like it .

Linda ,

Rmoving copyvio notice AGAIN

see above. Elf | Talk 00:47, 20 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It is ridiculous to think that an editor's statement that they recieved an e-mail from the purported author is valid proof that copyright violations do not exist!

Photo Request

Template:Reqbreedphoto

130.195.86.36 (talk) 02:38, 7 January 2008 (UTC) question re: photo request I have (original) photos of my Maremmas - can I send them to someone to review and post to this article? Regards, brian.a.lyall@gmail.com, 7 January 2008[reply]

Weight

How much do they weigh? Weight is mentioned indirectly but there is no actual weight range or average listed.

Original Use Section Cleanup

The Original Use section is not encyclopedia quality, referring specifically to the last line of "don't get me wrong-they bark". It also is packed full of sexist language. I will change these two without changing any of the actual content. Upon reading over the passage, I decided it would be best to remove the last line completely. I will paste it here so nobody has to bother with history if they think it should stay. "these dogs are great to have as a family pet but don't get me wrong-they bark." Sparkleiya 04:41, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Breed name

Maremmano-Abruzzese Lorna Coppinger and Raymond Coppinger, the biologists who are the preeminent experts on Livestock Guarding Dogs describe the "breed" (a term the Coppingers question) as the Italian "Maremmano-Abruzzese " in their book "Dogs: A New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behavior and Evolution (2002), University of Chicago Press, ISBN 0226115631. The Maremmano-Abruzzese being one of five or six dogs types involved in annual sheep migrations from highlands to lowlands common in many parts of the world. Should this article be titled "Maremmano-Abruzzese"? The Coppingers find that there is no valid distinction between dogs from the Tuscan Marremma and those from Abruzzo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MGerety (talk • contribs) 01:42, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Unless I this is a similar cousin this beautiful dog is also called a Pastore Abruzzese (Abruzzese Shepherd) at least in Avezzano, Italy (which is in Abruzzo). I had asked the locals what they call this stunning dog which I had never seen before.192.88.165.35 (talk) 17:06, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So-called copyright violation

A user who failed to login, and thus identify him or herself leaving only IP addresses, first claimed a lack of references and then labelled the previous version of this article a possible copyright violation. Before realizing that the user's objections were nonsense and that a user on that IP address had been cited for bogus edits, I rewrote the article so as to avoid any possible appearance of such a violation, relying on a number of academic articles including Drs. Coppinger at Hampshire College, the preeminent experts on livestock guarding dogs, as well as articles in Italian about this fabulous dog. i am personally quite familiar with this breed seeing them quite often in Abruzzo guarding their flocks of sheep. MGerety 03:33, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

The user's claims were not bogus. Several parts of the previous version were copied almost word from word from the article on this breed at Dog Breed Info. Collectonian 05:10, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Right. The florid description of the "standard" Maremma did take language from the that site, though very similar language is repeated in many kennel Club descriptions. Since biologists dispute breeding working dogs simply for appearance rather than behavioral characteristics that portion was not suitable at any rate. However, the remainder of the article especially that written about the dog's origins seemed original, in fact, the same IP user criticized it as possibly being "original research". I think it is not appropriate to delete photographs and then label ones restoration "vandalism" though the point on article length. Added headers as suggested MGerety 11:54, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Restoring photos that had been removed as a legitimate edit almost immediately after their removal with no justification or commentary and by passing the revert system does constitute a form a vandalism. If someone objected, they should have broached it on the talk page as the removal was properly justified to bring the article into proper compliance with Wikipedia policies. Also, OR can be applied if the article lacked citations, conclusions were drawn by combining multiple sources to make a new line of thought, etc. Collectonian 22:49, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bravo

This article is now greatly improved, with new headers much better than mine. MGerety 22:03, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Thanks for stepping in to giving it a good rewrite :) Collectonian 22:32, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pastore Abruzzese

I think this web site displays banner adds but itself is non-commercial.

MGerety 03:51, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From the rough translation of the pages, it appears that they also sell puppies, which makes it commercial and non-neutral, unfortunately Collectonian 04:30, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

maremma (maremmano-abruzzese ) versus Pastore Abruzzese

reference number 2 links to the site of Marco Petrella a breeder of pastore Abruzzese/Mastino Abruzzese, which is not the same dog as the maremmano-abruzzese (petrella lists the maremmano as one of the least typical subtypes of abruzzese dogs). The people of Abruzzi believe that their original Livestock Guardian dog is the "cane di pecora" a term which include the Pastore Abruzzese and Mastino Abruzzese, which are much larger than a maremmano-abruzzese. The Original Dog of Abruzzi is the Cane di pecora/Pastore Abruzzese/Mastino abruzzese which is NOT recognized by ENCI (the italian kennel club) although their recognition is being worked on. The Maremmano -Abruzzese is a creation of ENCI "experts" which years ago took abruzzese dogs and maremmanos (which are abruzzese dogs used in an area of Tuscany)and mixed them to create the maremmano-abruzzese breed. The Shepherds from Abruzzi do not regard the maremmano-Abruzzese as their original flock guardian. The Maremmano-Abruzzese however DOES work effectively as a livestock guardian dog (it is derived from substrains of the original pastore abruzzese/mastino abruzzese breed) but the original working dog is the Mastino Abruzzese/pastore Abruzzese/cane di pecora. Hope this rant helps clarify what dog is what. A similar thing can be said about the breed "Anatolian Shepherd" which is a creation of western dog breeders who were trying to bring the Kangal Dog of Turkey to the west. Turks have no idea what an "Anatolian Shepherd" is, and certainly do not think of it as a Turkish breed, however every Turk knows the Kangal Dog, which is the national dog of Turkey so to speak. same thing happened when Russians took central asian dogs and created the "central Asian ovtcharka" which would mean nothing to a Turkmen (the national dog of Turkmenistan is the Alabai) or a Kazak (the local breed of dog is the Tobet) or an Uzbek (their molosser is the Torkuz), but essentially the russians took Alabais, Tobets, Torkuzs added some other strains, mixed them together and now are marketing their creation as "Central Asian Ovtcharka" which is in fact a mixture of many things ....Hope this helps —Preceding unsigned comment added by Altes2009 (talk • contribs) 11:10, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually in the absence of sources backing this up, that's not much help. Fences&Windows 14:56, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

picking and owning a guardian dog

I owned maremma/purinese and used it to protect pigs and house. My experience in picking them is wait for the one that stays away,last one to come out as a pup . The younger you can get them the better ,unless they are with the type of animal you will put them with. Things to understand about this bread is they DO NOT like change,if you move pens frequntly it confuses them if an animal belongs in a certain place they like to keep them there . We found them to only get pushy if say the horses charged the fence the dogs would bark and run at them to stop the offense also if the pigs came in the yard the dogs used their size to push an the pig barking in the ear accelerating if the animal did not respond , nipping the ear untill animal responded appropriatly. Our guardian dog was loving and protective of the baby pigs ,having as many as 10 babie of assorted sizes sleeping on and around the dog. They like to do a perimeter check daily so walking them on thier bounderies is helpfull to keeping them home. They can be very intimidating to people because the way they treat wayward animals is how they will treat people who appear to not belong in your property. Eg when we had to move off the farm we were hesitant to lose our dogs so we had them in a big yard when people would loiter in front of our place they would run over barking put their shoulder against the person pushing until they moved on. This was frightening to people who did not understand the breed . In the end we had to give the dog away to a working farm .We had the same problem with the working retriever dogs that have a purpose do not like being dormant. If you want to have a guardian dog as a pet you MUST spend alot of time with them initaily so they understan their role in your family they guard what they percieve to be thier pack so what ever you give them they belong to and they do not transfer owners easily . If they are the right mix with your need you will NEVER find a better dog . Melboden (talk) 16:16, 13 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]