User talk:Trabeta

Welcome!

Hi, Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Our intro page contains a lot of helpful material for new users—please check it out! If you need help, visit Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on this page, followed by your question, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. भास्कर्bhagawati Speak 12:54, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Malo Bula

Malo Bula Trabeta thanks for your contributions, keep up the good work Vinaka

User:Maikeli

To help with your contributions

Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Vinaka vaka levu Trabeta and enjoy editing it help me when editing to keep in mind write like its an encyclopedia article, all the best

User:Maikeli

Regarding your Lomaloma contributions

I have adjusted some and kept the additions around Ma'afu that User talk:Trabeta added, but we must be mindful that The Rasau and the Ravunisa are key also in Lomalomas history and while Ma'fu was a great man there are issues that he cut ties with tonga and also many Fijian chiefs did not fully accept him as a chief he was Tui Lau for a time but not head of Tovata, the head of the Tovata confederacy was always the Tui Cakau. Please lets keep the history in perspective, Lomaloma today has changed two titles have remained vacant for long periods that of the Turaga na Rasau and the Turaga na Ravunisa and that maybe has an effect in the power shift and disputes today but please do not doubt the Mana and history behind these titles and their relative influences on Lomalomas history and their past histories in Fiji.

I will be returning to My Village Lomaloma and visiting my uncles house in Lomaloma and visiting my Grandmothers house in Sawana soon enough User Trabeta and I would like to sit down in the spirit of peace and unity void of Ego around the Tanoa and have an educated discussion around our contributions, especially on Vanuabalavu, lomaloma and Sawana, I will will bring 1kg pounded Waka and I'll Lose the Yaqona, until then lets remain balanced and fair to our beloved Vanua and its varied histories and current predicaments. Vinaka Saka

User:Maikeli

Some observations from my research

Ma'afu when referenced should be addressed as Tui Lau as that was his title until he died in 1881. All history books that I have researched confirmed this to be the case and he did not abdicate his position but reverted his claims back to the Tui Nayau. He did not nominate the successor of Tui Nayau as he was supposed to - ref Mara, Pacific Way papers.

In my research - I will correct any errors that I see as incorrectly written about his ventures and existence in Fiji.

Whilst I agree the Rasau, Ravunisa, Tui Naturuku and other Tui's of villages do exist and what they mean culturally to their people - History remains that Ma'afu was the Tui Lau and Chiefdom of the Lau Confederacy as well as the Head of the Tovata.

History also point to the fact that Tovata did not exist until Ma'afu set it up - the government of North Eastern Fiji. Neither of the heads of Lau, Bua or Macuata were subservient to Tui Cakau at any time from the documents that I read - though at times he fought these provinces but I can not see any record where he was decisive - in fact most of his successes was using the support of the early Tongans and Cakobau. The records are correct that Ma'afu was installed as Head of the Tovata for life. There is a plaque at his home in Lotoa installed there by Ratu Mara to commemorate this fact. While Tui Cakau is the current head of the Tovata - this head is by selection - not hereditary ... though today people have incorrectly assumed that the Tui Cakau is the automatic head of the Tovata.

Whilst it is fair to say that there were chiefs in Fiji who were not supportive of Ma'afu - the fact remains that:

He was a signatory to the Cession - he could not have been invited if he was not a person of importance and revered in Fiji
Installed as Tui Lau and was the first Roko Tui Lau after Deed of Cession
He was the lawful owner of Vanuabalavu and associated islands and confirmed in the Council of Chiefs meeting at Mualevu
The 3 heads of Yavusa in Nakoro surrended to him as referenced in work by AC Reid. They reported to him until his death when the 3 then reported to the Tui Nayau as recorded in their respective TRY
He existed and made Lomaloma what it is with the allocation of land and where people live in the greater Lomaloma settlement
He allocated land to all people to work and pay tax

It should also be noted that there were alot of unpopular Chiefs in Fiji at the time - eg Cakobau was so unpopular that he was engaged in warfare all his life. The people of Rewa could not stand him and hence the battle of Kaba that brought the Rewans under his control only at the support of the Tongans.

These views are not driven by EGO, not so - they are driven by someone who wants history to be told as it was - not rewritten and swayed to favour one tribe against the other when clearly history and writings do not support it.

Trabeta (talk) 08:33, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Your help

Malo Bula Trabeta you may be interested in the articles Tui Lau and Tovata Confederacy as your knowledge around the subject is good and helpful. Malo User: Maikeli

Tovata

I will quote the research work by AC Reid, born in Scotland in 1915 and served for 30 years in the South Pacific including 25 years in Fiji. He was the last European to hold the post of Secretary for Fijian Affairs. He also spent time in Tonga and retired and settled in NSW.

He wrote the only book that I can find in Library in Fiji and in Australian [ANU] that is most balanced in reporting in regards to the formation of the Tovata. His work that I have correlated with other journals confirm the following:

1867 - Ma'afu, Tui Bua and Tui Cakau entered into a political association styled the Tovata ko Natokalau kei Viti (Confederation of North and East of Fiji)
in 1869 - the Chiefs of Lau united under Ma'afu and formed the Chiefdom of Lau with him as Tui Lau
The Tovata Flag was approved at Lomaloma Meeting - May/June 1869. Lomaloma here refers to Loto'a where Ma'afu set up his HQ
At the same meeting, Ma'afu was reconfirmed by the Tui Bua, Tui Nayau and Tui Cakau as Tui Lau noting at that time Macuata was broken up into two provinces and were not part of the original Tovata Confederacy. This was referenced in Swanston's account to the British Consul in Levuka
Macuata joined the Tovata Confederacy before Deed of Cession in 1874 when it was reunited. The Bauans and later Tongans were responsible for breaking Macuata up which led to Wainiqolo being banned from ever entering Vanualevu again by the British
Ma'afu remain head of the Tovata until his passing in 1881 when the three Chiefs nominated Tui Cakau as the head
The Tui Lau was vacant for 50 years during which time Tui Cakau became the default Head of the Tovata
Ratu Sukuna was installed as the second Tui Lau in 1938 but did not claim back the head of the Tovata as it was embedded in Fijian culture
Likewise when Ratu Mara was installed as Tui Lau and later as TuiNayau
The Head of Tovata is not hereditary but is by selection of the heads of the three provinces

Tovata unlike the Burebasaga and Kubuna - was set up as a political association 'of the same party of the same side' and only formerlised into government post Colonial but has no real clout in Fijian cultural sense

It was formed out of coalition to tame/blunt Cakobau's expansionism which it did and historians wrote as one of the main reasons Cakobau who had claimed the Title of Tui Viti to give Fiji away to the British rather than be subservient to the Tovata Coalition led by their Head Ma'afu.

Tui Bua and Tui Cakau Households have long association with the Tongans hence the coalition. Macuata was different and had a history of division but eventually came to the fold before Deed of Cession

The above are facts supported by referenced works by prominent historians who worked in the Native Land Commission. They are references that I quoted in the article of Enele Ma'afu

Whilst I learned most of these when I was a student at QVS [History teacher was Roqica] later in life I was most interested in the whole history of Fiji pre and post Colonial in particular the culture of cannibalism that was considered normal in Fiji not so long ago ...

Thank God for my ancestors and yours in bringing Christianity to Fiji ...

Trabeta (talk) 14:01, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To a large extent, Kubuna is also a political entity. The matanitu is headed by a traditional polity (vanua) of the same name, but all three confederacies I believe formed as war time alliances and only reached their current size in the 1800s. Although I believe that Burebasaga was aready quite extensive pre-European contact and Bau (Kubuna) began its meteoric rise during the chieftaincy of Banuve in the late 1700s to early 1800s. Tukutukudina (talk) 01:21, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sawana Article

Thanks, I was just trying it out. I didn't think I had saved the page. I was intending to put it back to how it was. Unfortunately I must have forgotten. It's just that having the photos all on the left seemed to make them flow down past the text too much on the right. Tukutukudina (talk) 01:09, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No problems - the re arrangement seemed to look better - but after all that hard work - someone has decided the photos are violation of copyright and have been removed. Ihave requested re installation as they are from my own photos or those that I have requested - but most if not all were those that I took from my camera whilst holidaying in the islands

Trabeta (talk) 02:00, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to save the Sawana Photos

Trabeta I was trying to find the right licensing Tags for your photos but before I could they were deleted, try and upload them again and find the correct licensing permission, if you are having trouble let us know, maybe I could help.

Malo User:Maikeli

I understand the reasons and the details required on EXIF filess of the photos - I will access originals from my photo collection and repost them instead of ones sent to me on facebook.

This should not take too long - I had checked out the photos and have collated the originals that I took for posting

Many thanks Trabeta (talk) 14:20, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The business of removing photos from articles

Basis of postings were disclosed. Photos from personal collection and from people who have authoriseduse were also removed.

I can now understand why so many articles do not have photos included.

Whilst lots of efforts have gone into preparing these articles - there are people who are more interested in removal and not understand reasons that were presented.

Will search the world to see who were the authors even some of them over 70 years old so readers can enjoy the article and contexed with photos

To all of you who have taken liberty to remove these items - thanks ...

Trabeta (talk) 12:54, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Installation Process

Bula Trabeta, hope all is well, just thought if you had the time if you could write on the Tui Lau title, the installation protocols and procedures for the Tui Lau, I notice alot of chiefly title articles have not got the installation process and folklore histories, I am trying to add them where I have information and knowledge around, if you could help also it would be good. Malo User:Maikeli

June 2013

Please stop adding unsourced content, as you did to Enele Ma'afu. This contravenes Wikipedia's policy on verifiability. If you continue to do so, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Giant Snowman 16:41, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is your last warning. The next time you add unsourced material to Wikipedia, as you did at Enele Ma'afu, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. Giant Snowman 12:31, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have reverted the sections as the sources of comments are referenced after each paragraph. The Comments are based on research work from the main references ... You need to explain to me what is incorrect with the summary ... if I have done wrong - let me know - otherwise - I am very happy to quit editing this document - And over to you to edit and add value to the article

References include John Spurnway papers, AC Reid book on Tovata, History of Fiji and the facts that are sourced from his home with evidences after speaking to the elders that were of same origin ...Trabeta (talk) 12:38, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The article does not include any in-line reliable sources; a list of related books at the end of the article is not enough. The content is also riddled with personal POV - please see WP:NPOV. Feel free to re-add the content but ONLY if you include reliable sources, using <ref></ref> tags showing where the information is sourced to. Giant Snowman 12:49, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I'm Widr. I wanted to let you know that I undid one or more of your recent contributions to Enele Ma'afu because it did not appear constructive. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Widr (talk) 13:00, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]