Talk:Minuteman Project

/Archive 1: April 2005 – June 2006

Renunciation by Minuteman leader James Chase

I also have removed the section "Renunciation by Minuteman leader James Chase" because it unbalances the article to the left-side and has a heavy liberal viewpoint. There were no sources or citations of any of these allegations and I felt that a single person does not have the authority of wrongly stereotyping the Minuteman Project. 165.111.2.149 14:19, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"I cannot continue in any way, shape or form in a relationship with Minuteman Civil Defense Corps or even Minuteman Project...James Gilchrist wanted to skin Chris alive but then they went to Washington and picked up the two DC crooks Mary Lewis [Gilchrist's congressional campaign manager] and Connie Hair [official Minuteman Project spokesperson] and the corruption machine was off and running. Now Mary is even allowing the Nazi party into the campaign and they refuse to remove Ranch Rescue, Andy Ramirez and Cliff Linquist from their links. So you have an absolute CON man Andy in your ranks sucking many thousands of dollars away from the cause. I have standards of right...sending email and letter requests for money to all of our people, even to my grandchildren, sisterinlaw, and distance English exstep mother is just without all Class or regard for civility. I am sad that some of you are so desperate, so gah gah, over what was a super lightning rod for antiillegal immigration that you refuse to see that ethics and honesty is above all. May the Lord Open your eyes to see and your nostrils to smell the manure before us."
Mary Parker Lewis managed Gilchrist's congressional campaign. Hair is the official Minuteman Project spokesperson.
Chase posted a similar disclaimer on his California Border Watch website, notifying his members and the public of the split in the Minuteman ranks.
In December, 2005 James turned over leadership of the California Minutemen (CMM) & the Border Watch Federation (BWF) to his son, Mike Chase. Recruits, operations and the influence of the California Minutemen expanded rapidly, and the N. County Times [1]bitterly complained of Mike Chase's appointment to the political steering committee of California Senator Bill Morrow's campaign for the 50th District Congressional seat vacated by Randy "Duke" Cunningham.
As reported by the Associated Press on January 27, 2006, [2] Chase's California Minutemen successfully stopped a program sponsored by HumaneBorders.org and the government of Mexico to supply over 70,000 maps to illegal aliens to aid their unlawful entry into the United States. Faced with the knowledge of several Title 8 United States Code section 1324 prosecutions in the United States, including from similar groups such as NoMoreDeaths.org, along with the fact that thousands of Minutemen now openly roamed the American border lands 24/7, the volunteers and Mexican government decided to suspend the program. Miguel Angel Paredes, a spokesman for Mexico's National Human Rights Commission said "This would be practically like telling the Minutemen where the migrants are going to be" and as such, they'd have to "rethink this".

There is quite of bit of material here. Though I agree the writing is poor, there are several sources and facts which appear worth salvaging. Did one of the founders, James Chase, denounce the group and leave it, forming a break-off group? Is this map issue noteworthy? Were there complaints about a leader of the Minutemen serving on a political campaign? We should establish if these are facts and add them back to the article if they are verifiable. -Will Beback 21:03, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have found a source for some of these statements, though it is from Chase's organisation's own website. http://www.borderwatch.us/ca/ (click on "about us"- i can't directly link to the section). I see no reason why a section (carefully written to avoid POV) about Chase shouldn't be added, but will leave it a couple of days to allow people to comment here, as it does seem to have caused a lot of argument in the past Lurker 11:26, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Increasing support since May 1

I have deleted the following statement: "Ever since the May 1, 2006 protest by millions of legal and illegal immigrants, as well as their supporters, in the U.S., there has been increasing support for the Minuteman Project from different sections of the United States".

I deleted this, rather than let it stand with a tag asking for a citation for the following reasons:

1- A citation has been requested for a month, with no response.

2- The statement was added only a few days after the May 1 protest, making it unlikely to have been based on any verifiable data.

3- The statement, if unverified, adds bias to the article Lurker 11:14, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I support the deletion. If there is an actual citation, I would guess they would now put it in. Thanks for your efforts! Kimathi 16:26, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Racism?

Is this a racist organisation? I only ask because I've only recently heard of the organisation and when I read the website I got the impression of a racist agenda.

Conversly are the Minutemen concerned about the economic impact of either haveing or not having the illegal immigrants to do certain jobs

Ironcorona 14:00, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the Minutemen are a VERY racist organization, and wish that every non-White person would go away. *coughcough* They're not in the least bit racist. If a person of any origin arrives in the US legally, they're all for it. If a person crosses illegally, then they've an issue. The only reason why they seem racist, is because the vast majority of illegal aliens are hispanic, flooding across the border of Mexico. I mean, if a certain demogaphic of people practiced Baalism, would I be racist for wanting to stop the baby killing?

If many different people killed babies and you only went after a certain demographic, you would indeed be racist. The Minutemen focus on illegal border crossings between Mexico and the US instead of the 40% of visa overstayers. Their fear campaign does attract numerous nativist, racist, and xenophobic followers. You must ask yourself: "how many Latinos are in this movement or supportive of it?" if you want to know the true identity of the group. You can sign your name by adding 4 ~s at the end of your post. Kimathi 23:24, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So, according to Kimathi above, the Minutemen should investigate and track down visa overstayers? I thought that was the responsibility of the Federal government. The Minutemen are private citizens, and do not possess the resources or training to track down visa overstayers. However, they do have the resources and training to observe illegal alien activity, and report it to the proper authorities.

If one truly cared about illegal immigration, s/he would be concerned about all paths to illegally immigrating. If one cared about keeping the "Mexicans" out of the country in which one resides, s/he would watch a border. Kimathi 19:22, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why do those who disagree with the Minutemen always have to play the "Race card"? And what exactly is a "nativist". From my perspective, there is nothing wrong or racist with wanting "the law" enforced, or with supporting the right of a sovereign nation to secure its borders against illegal immigration.

Check out nativist if you want to learn a definition. What will "secure a border"? A 50 foot fence? Then, there will be a 51 foot ladder. Do you truly want to kill someone who was searching for a better life for his or her family by crossing a border? Is that what Americans value? "The law" as we have seen throughout our history can be wrong or racist at times, yes? Then, should it be enforced? What would really stop illegal immigration? One would have to address the economic disparities created by a system that exploits the poor for the benefit of the rich. Kimathi 19:22, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kimathi, I frankly don't care who is in the organization. There are no hispanics in my college's College Republican club, but nobody claims that they're racist. Conversly, nobody seems to care that there are no white people in the Salsa Club. That doesn't mean that either club is racist. As for the 40% via overstayers, the Minutemen have no way of legally assisting in that respect. None. Zip. Zero. They CAN NOT LEGALLY ASK ABOUT IT. Their goal is to cut down on the number of border crossing by assisting in the understaffed and overstretched US Border Patrol, and to bring the entire issue into the public eye - and thus force the Fed's hand to enforce the law all the way through. I've met enough people of Hispanic origin who think the entire Minuteman Project is a damn good idea. Why? BEcause they think of themselves as American, not Mexican - which most 'Hispanics' think of. The crux of the matter is, the Minutemen can only assist in the Border Patrol by just observing. They can't stop and check, they can only report what they think is illegal - much like the Neighborhood Watch. That's all the enforcement they can do. It just so happens that the VAST majority of people flooding over the US border in this invasion (Which fits the definition, by my book) are Hispanic. Like my Baalism reference, it may be that there are Lanquassians, Jarelians, and Barians all participating, but if the majority of the Baalists are Odvarrki, you'd be calling it racist to crack down on it. (Those are fictional ethnic groups, by the by, used in my stories.) And I don't sign my name using the 68.5.23.91 06:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC) because I don't feel like having an account. ~The guy from above.[reply]

The Prescript of the Ku Klux Klan stated that it was meant to protect the innocent from the lawless and defend the US Constitution - ie protect "the law". Would it be wrong to question who was attracted to such an organization? Would you then care who was in that organization? And from the actions/beliefs of the participants draw conclusions about the organization? I did not state that the Minutemen Project is a racist organization; rather, it attracts nativist, racist, and xenophobic members. Therefore, we should question the organization as a whole. Kimathi 19:22, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Except that the actions of the Ku Klux Klan are racist themselves. The Minutemen Project only seems to be, because the majority of people breaking the law they are assisting in the enforcement in by observation (And only observation) are of one race. ~The Guy FRom Above