Talk:Mikheil Saakashvili

Neutrality

Not sure what the official policy is on this, or if it has been brought up before, but what is the neutrality issues with the primary pictures of world leaders? What I mean is that Saakashvili's photo is him smiling. Meanwhile, Vladimir Putin's picture is a mean-looking face. Is this pro-Saakashvili and anti-Putin? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kylelovesyou (talk • contribs) 11:07, 30 May 2012

Mikheil Saakashvili eat his tie

Anybody explain to me why the info about that was compeletly deleted TWICE in this article. The first one is carried out by user wikihannibal, that user claimed that the info "do not belong to the lead" but DID NOT SAY WHERE EXACTLY IT BELONG TO. The second delete was carried out by Kober, a Gruzian member and I dunno a anti-Russian pro-Saakashvili or not ?

Question: Did CIA, White House and Pentagon managed to bribe Wikipedia to carefully censor the info so that wikipedia is becoming an effective Western propaganda tool ? Михаил Александрович Шолохов (talk) 13:48, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

You are violating WP:NPA (including ethnic slurs), WP:SHOUT, and fairly much everything surrounding WP:TALKNO. This is not a WP:SOAPBOX for pushing WP:UNDUE content (AKA this article is a WP:BLP). Per WP:ROC, my evaluation of the content you want to add is that it's trivia. If other editors agree that the content is WP:DUE, it would need to be added to a relevant section... and I can't see one where it belongs as the article is already a lengthy, detailed one. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:36, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

What ? lengthy detailed means cannot add info if needed ?

Relevant section ? I see a section here about the clashed between Russia and Gruzia in 2008. And another section named "Criticism and approbation". Relevant enough ?

Trivia ? Anti-Saakashvili actively make jokes about he eating the tie and that event was mentioned in many media and sources ? Dear me is that trivia ?

I admit that I lost my temper. But what should I do when there were acts which really tempted me to deliver an attacks. Oh dear me, please don't make me lost my faith about Wikipedia so-called "neutrality". Михаил Александрович Шолохов (talk) 02:04, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

I will put these info into the section "Criticism and approbation". Relevant enough. Like it or not, he did accidently chew his tie, and anti-Saakashvili actively make jokes about that incidents. Михаил Александрович Шолохов (talk) 03:56, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Sholokhov, your being rude to me is like water off a duck's back. I was addressing your initial comments against two other users.

I'm simply telling you that, having looked at the section dealing with the Russian-Georgian war, it's already comprehensive. For the benefit of other editors, this is Sholokov's addition initially added to the lead:

"During his presidency, a brief clash with Russia occured in 2008 due to disputes of the situation in South Ossetia, resulted in Georgian military defeat and the recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia's independence by Russia and several other countries. In the heat of the event, a stressful Saakashvili accidentally chewed his tie [1] [2]. That accident was sometime satirically mentioned in some media."

References

Your arguments read as WP:ITSIMPORTANT. The question at the heart of this is whether it is important. Aside from The Observer, your refs are blogs, forums and RT. This is Wikipedia and memes, etc., are WP:CRUFT. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:07, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

So I will put it at "Criticism and approbation" (and of course I will modified it to be more suitable and try my best not to poke fun or criminalize him). So, yes or no, relevant or not ? Why it is not important ? Because it portray an embarrassment event of Saakashvili ? Михаил Александрович Шолохов (talk) 05:14, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

If you want more sources or better sources, here: [3], [4], [5], [6], [7].

I don't want to doubt the neutrality stance of wikipedia but with all these deleterous deeds... all these tempt me to doubt it. Михаил Александрович Шолохов (talk) 09:44, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Comrade, first of all, I'm not "Grusian". I presume you are not supposed to like to be referred to as "Ruskie". In case this stems from your honest ignorance, I'm being patient to explain to you that the name of my country in English is "Georgia", natively "Sakartvelo". If you don't have any dictionary at hand right now, you can use Google Translate or refer to Name of Georgia. Second, when editing Wikipedia, you should follow WP:NPOV and avoid editorializing and using weasel words like "embarrassing" and "unfortunate". Third, what does this incident have to do with the Criticism section? You cannot criticize someone for chewing his own tie and your famous Georgian namesake himself has joked regarding the incident. The incident is trivia and if it still has a place in the article, certainly not in a way you're pushing for. Thanks, --Kober^Talk 08:27, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

First, I will continue to call you Gruzian, because the name "Gruzia" is officialy used or usually used in the media of a number of countries without any derogatory meaning. But of course, I don't have any intention to use that name in en.wikipedia articles because en.wiki use "Georgia". Actually, I would be happy to see en.wiki use the name "Sakartvelo" instead of "Georgia". In case if you lack of knowledge still make you doubt about it, take an example, I take a brief check and I am sure that the article is posted in a state media of a certain country, and it seems like the word "Gruzia" was not used in a derogatory way.

Second, I deleted the word "embarrassing" and "unfortunate". If you take a look at the whole paragraph you can see that it do not say SKV is a criminal or a bad guy because of that. It simply say SKV make an accident, the camera took it, and then a number of media usually use it to poke fun of and discredit him. Fair enough ?

Third, trivia as you like, quite a number of media, people and anti-SKV humans usually use that incident to poke fun of and discredit SKV. I see no reason to not mention it in wikipedia. Put it in somewhere of the article as you like, but I have no reason to see it being censored. Михаил Александрович Шолохов (talk) 02:36, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Sholokhov: Firstly, I will repeat: no personal attacks! Kober has already made it clear that s/he finds it insulting, and I happen to be very much aware that your use of Gruzian is insulting, so don't try to play us as if we were fools. I had already templated your talk page warning you against personal attacks, ethnic slurs and the disruptive editing techniques you've employed, yet you jumped back into this talk page tossing in further attacks. What you are engaging in is WP:BADFAITH behaviour, but are trying to turn it around against other editors and accusing us of censorship. Furthermore, you still pushed your content through, despite its being illiterate and badly formed, using an aggressive edit summary. I don't see how you've even decided that it should go at the top of the section, why it is more relevant than the other serious issues addressed in the section, and why it reads like a tacked on piece of trivia. If you wish to be treated with the respect you feel you're due, have the courtesy to treat other editors with respect. Read through Wikipedia's fundamental principles and open a discussion when/if you understand how to work with other editors collaboratively. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:53, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Iryna Harpy: Nonsense. By which standard you consider "Gruzia" is a personal attacks although a certain state media use it without any derogatory meaning ? By which standard you can say that your "awareness" is right ? You read my mind and have some device to record my thinking ?

And by the way this name can be very offensive to a number of people, due to the intense relationship between two countries which have disputes over groups of islands. So if somebody use that name, will they be punished ?

Trivia ? Why trivia ? His embarrassing event was recorded and broadcasted, and it has been used by his rivals/enemy as a laughing material and a mean to discredit him. That is trivia ? Have you ever seen how anti-Saakashvili used that event to poke fun at him or discredit him ? It's not like I am going to criminalize him using that event, I just don't get your standard of "trivia".

If you wish to be treated with the respect, do some homework and come up with a more logical argument. Михаил Александрович Шолохов (talk) 08:22, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Sholokhov: Please stick to arguing your case on one talk page at a time. You've brought up the same issues on my talk page which, for any other interested editors, I've responded to there. I don't see any point in rehashing the details here. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:08, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Both archived captures confirmed as correct. Thanks. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:22, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Saakashvili is now the most popular politician in Ukraine

A poll by Sociological group "RATING" has shown that Saakashvili is now (October 2015) the most popular politician in Ukraine (43% viewed him positively). Is this noticeable enough to include in this article? — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 23:29, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

I don't see why not. It's not a BLPVIO, or PEACOCK. The only reason it could be seen as being UNDUE is that we're NOTNEWS. Nevertheless, there's been plenty of coverage of the recent elections, etc. His popularity isn't an overnight success story, either. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:19, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

A small update: according to "RATING" in June 2016 26% viewed him positively, ranking him the 3th most popular politician in Ukraine (behind Nadia Savchenko and Andriy Sadovy). — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 09:37, 12 July 2016 (UTC) — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 09:37, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Avakov vs Saakashvili| video

I just deleted the "Avakov vs Saakashvili| video" from this article per WP:LINKFARM & WP:SENSATION. Without any explanation about the incident in the text of this article this video looks like Wikipedia:Libel and a threat to WP:IMPARTIAL. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 08:49, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

When did he lose Georgian citizenship?

The article contradicts itself: On 4 December 2015 Saakashvili was stripped of his Georgian citizenship. According to him this was done to prevent him to lead the United National Movement in the 2016 Georgian parliamentary election. but then Saakashvili stated on 1 June 2015 that he had given up (three days before) Georgian citizenship to avoid "guaranteed imprisonment" in Georgia. Or did he lose Georgian citizenship automatically when he became Ukrainian, and the December 2015 decision was just a confirmation of that?--176.7.54.203 (talk) 07:41, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Not sure if this is noticeable....

but on 11 September 2016 Saakashvili said that the party named after and founded by the man who apointed him governor, the Petro Poroshenko Bloc, "has become a criminal group". At the time I wrote this this was WP:NOTNEWS and not picked up by English speaking main stream press.... but if Saakashvili gets dismissed as governor of Odesa Oblast.... this description of Petro Poroshenko Bloc might be relevant to mention in Saakashvili's Wikipedia article. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 21:27, 12 September 2016 (UTC)