Talk:Aromanticism

This article needs to stay. Its a decent beginning for the subject and we can build it over time. As it is the discourse on Aromantism is limited.

RfC: Should this article be merged?

This page previously redirected to a section in the Asexuality article. It just went through an AfD, which I somehow overlooked even though this page was on my watchlist during that time. The AfD closed as no consensus. Two argued for keeping the article while the others argued for redirecting and/or merging the article. The options for the merge were the Asexuality or the Romantic orientation article. So should this article be redirected and/or merged? Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 10:36, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Survey

• Yes. Anyone who is familiar with the asexuality literature knows that aromanticism doesn't really widely exist outside of that topic/community. Not truly. This is also reflected by the sources in this article. It's the same for romantic orientation, even though it currently has its own Wikipedia article. Either way, this is not a case where a standalone page is needed. This topic should be covered in one of the two aforementioned articles, preferably the Asexuality article. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 10:39, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
• Yes I am not involved in the topics of the article, but purely from a practical standpoint, currently there is not enough substance in the page to merit its own article. I can't give a qualified opinion on the article to be merged to, but definitely one of the two. Not objected to keeping if substantial expansion occurs. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 11:12, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
  • Not an expert, so not voting, but recent expansion makes a merge impractical unless someone convinces me otherwise. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 15:25, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
• No. I have expanded the article, and I think it looks fine now. 79.67.81.118 (talk) 14:16, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
• Not a topic matter expert, but I think that after the expansion there is a bit too much content to reasonably merge. Sandstein 14:59, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Eddie891 and Sandstein, the IP's expansion of the article is an attempt to make the topic look more notable than it is. Given its ties to asexuality and romantic orientation and that what is stated about it so commonly applies to asexual people as well, it's not much of a standalone topic. Look at the sources (many of which are poor for this topic) the IP-hopper included. Just about all of the sources the IP-hopper included define this identity within the concept of asexuality, just like all of the other asexual identities. I had to make this edit just to remove WP:Undue weight based on an opinion piece and poor blog source and the IP pushing aromanticism as distinct from asexuality. Yes, they don't always mean the same thing and there are some people who identify as aromantic without identifying as asexual, but, for the most part, "aromantic" is defined within the asexuality community and is specifically noted by numerous reliable sources as being an asexual identity. That is why this "Community" content that I just removed is based entirely on asexuality sources. For that content, the IP focused on the aromanticism identity aspect and made it seem like the sources are talking solely about the aromantic identity. They aren't. All of what the IP added for that section applies to asexuals as a whole. Even the "underrepresentation of aromantics in the media and in research" piece in the article by the IP is associated with asexuals, as seen by the sources used for it here and here; they are about the asexual community in general. The latter source is very clear that aromanticism is on the asexuality spectrum. So far, the IP-hopper has added poor media sources (a few okay ones), WP:Undue weight, and has engaged in selective editing, WP:Editorializing and WP:Synthesis to try and save this article. The IP-hopper, who is no newbie, has done this before with other pages. And this includes the demisexuality topic, as seen at that (now closed) merge discussion, where Atsme, Ozzie10aaaa, KateWishing, CityOfSilver, Comatmebro and HelpTheBear weighed in. Do see the list of scholarly sources I listed in the collapse box below making it clear that aromanticism emerged from the asexuality community and/or is an asexual identity.

Some sources on aromanticism/aromantic emerging from the asexuality community and/or being an asexual identity

This 2015 "Asexuality and Sexual Normativity: An Anthology" source, from Routledge, page 46, states, "Interestingly, educational materials produced by asexuals have highlighted this feature thus generating a number of 'new' identities such as demisexual, aromantic asexual, biromantic asexual, and gray-A. Asexual 'language' or 'vocabulary' is another dimension that medical scales tend to overlook." This 2015 "Gender and the Modern Sherlock Holmes: Essays on Film and Television Adaptations Since 2009" source, from McFarland, page 222, when speaking of asexuality research, states, "This distinction between the sexual and the romantic appears to be featured prominently in the selfproduced asexual materials, discourses, and discussions that selfidentified asexual people are likely to have encountered. It is in this context where identity labels such as demisexual, hyposexual, romantic, and aromantic asexual, hyporomantic, straightA, gay A, biA, gray A, etc. take on meanings, as people attempt to position themselves not only according to the genders of people to whom they experience attraction, but also according to the degrees to which (and the ways in which) they do so." This 2015 "Gender and Sexual Diversity in U.S. Higher Education: Contexts and Opportunities for LGBTQ College Students: New Directions for Student Services, Number 152" source, from John Wiley & Sons, page 21, states, "Various terms exist to describe asexual people's romantic inclinations, such as aromantic (do not experience romantic attractions), heteroromantic (romantically inclined toward people of a different sex/gender), homoromantic, biromantic, panromantic, and so on." This 2016 "The SAGE Encyclopedia of LGBTQ Studies" source, from SAGE Publications, page 92, states, "[...] within the asexual community, an important distinction is drawn between romantic sexuality and aromantic asexuality." The source goes on to note that neither group experiences sexual attraction...but that there is a difference between these two groups. As the source shows, the identities are focused (primarily at least) within the asexual community. This 2017 "Nonbinary Gender Identities: History, Culture, Resources" source, from Rowman & Littlefield, page 256, states, "People who experience low or no sexual or romantic attraction are generally called asexual or aromantic." It does go on to note, though, that "nonbinary people can be straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, queer, asexual, aromantic, or any number of other sexual identity terms." This 2018 "Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Americans at Risk: Problems and Solutions [3 volumes]" source, from ABC-CLIO, page 218, states, "Within asexuality, one may possess a romantic identity, which defines the emotional, not sexual, attachment to another individual. These romantic attractions operate on a spectrum. Individuals may bear a homo-romantic attraction to individuals of the same sex, or they may bear a heteroromantic attraction to those of the opposite sex. Ultimately, the romantic spectrum is similar to the scaling of homo- and hetero- attraction on the spectrum of sexuality. [...] The romantic/aromantic spectrum creates divides with the community and questions whether asexuality is 'queer.'"

All that stated, because some people who are aromantic don't identify as asexual, and the same applies vice versa, it is perhaps best to redirect the term to the Romantic orientation article and expand on this and different asexuality-related terms there. I have cut the article down, and might need to do so again if the IP goes back to their typical "need to save the article by any means" editing. It can be reasonably merged to the Romantic orientation article and cut further to focus on that topic. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 22:24, 11 April 2018 (UTC) As it was, it was mainly stuff that applies to asexuals as a whole. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 22:48, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

• Yes - I agree with Flyer22 Reborn, which I understand to be merge/redirect/expand at Romantic orientation (the main article). There is always room for it to grow beyond the capacity of the main article, so let it incubate there first instead of splintering off into separate articles before it's time. ^{Atsme📞📧} 23:25, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

Pinging previous editors who were involved in the AfD: Eddie891, Szzuk, Valoem and Sandstein. IPs can't be pinged. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 10:36, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Note: The IP also keeps adding poor media sources, a number of which are mainly about asexuality, and sometimes attributes these sources to aromanticism. The IP has also resorted to using interviews regarding certain people's personal experiences with asexuality/aromanticism to generalize material about aromanticism. And Atsme is correct that I'm saying these asexuality-related terms can be expanded in the Romantic orientation article. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:26, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

If I quote an interview, then per attribution I avoid using factual language. 79.67.81.118 (talk) 03:32, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Also, most sources I have used are also used on many other pages. 79.67.81.118 (talk) 03:36, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

You are adding any and everything to the article and hoping it sticks. You are artificially expanding this article in the hopes that it will be kept and people will say don't merge, some without even analyzing the topic and sources. Well, people can also vote to trim and merge. Like I stated on your talk page, you need to read WP:Reliable sources. Random online sources are not automatically reliable sources. We have the WP:Reliable sources guideline for a reason. And random comments about how certain celebrities, or non-notables, feel or what they state is WP:Undue weight. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:41, 12 April 2018 (UTC)