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September 3

Historical information on the Orient Express

I'm looking for information on the Orient Express, specifically in the early 20th century just prior to WWI. (Yes, I have played The Last Express.) I'm specifically looking for an exact timetable of the Express and the stops it would make in 1914, which is surprisingly hard to find - I would have thought the railheads would be all over that. Any pointers? Dr-ziego (talk) 13:42, 3 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You want a Thomas Cook's Continental Timetable or a Bradshaw's Continental Railway Guide for the relevant dates. There have been re-prints of the latter which you may be able to find on well-known websales sites. DuncanHill (talk) 16:46, 3 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Civil War records

https://archive.org/details/massachusettssol21931mass

Is there a comparable source listing all the Civil War combatants from Wisconsin and Michigan such as the linked sourced above about Massachusetts in book form?KAVEBEAR (talk) 15:08, 3 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You might want to give a better understanding about your work so far in pursuit of this type of information and format. Are you asking because you have found nothing or are you asking as a potential shortcut to what you seek? From what I have seen, the official record of the US government concerning who served is found in the records of those that have petitioned the US government for a military pension either as the service person or his surviving beneficiary. Some states may have established military benefits for those of its state that served in the military. And it might be possible that soldier reunion lists may be published in the Congressional Record. Annecdotal information would be broadsides published to commemorate a group that the members would then hang on their walls. Have you sought out any of these. And of course there may be questions of completeness due to their provenance.2605:E000:1301:4462:904E:DC75:3814:4202 (talk) 19:34, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

National Museum of Brazil fire

What were the most significant and iconic artificats lost in the National Museum of Brazil fire? 107.193.163.81 (talk) 15:16, 3 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Some are mentioned here:

Daniel Victor (September 3, 2018). "What Artifacts Were in the National Museum of Brazil?". New York Times.

Presumably too soon to determined what was "destroyed" (meteorites should do fine, for example). 2606:A000:1126:4CA:0:98F2:CFF6:1782 (talk) 15:43, 3 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Luxury in communism

In communism what happened to all luxury articles that already existed before the revolution? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.252.181.83 (talk) 21:36, 3 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder. All the yachts and diamonds and mansions, what did they do with them? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:20, 3 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Imperial palaces became museums, some summer palaces became health resorts for a few citizens. A new class, the nomenklatura, sprouted after each communist revolution. The nomenklatura had special privileges, but even for these, imported consumer goods were difficult to obtain. And they couldn't bequeath obtained privileged to their children, just use them while they were alive.--Doroletho (talk) 00:45, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Crown Jewels of Russia, Regalia of the Russian tsars and Diamond Fund talk a little bit about what happened in Russia - basically they were stored away, sometimes in museums. At one point the Soviets tried to sell them all, but international appraisers informed them that priceless historical artifacts, they'd never sell for their actual value. Adam Bishop (talk) 13:41, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It may get sold/monetarized, conserved and shown off in Exhibitions, converted to public property or simply destroyed as offensive item/object. There is no general plan in revolutions - every revolution is different. Some seem quite vicious, like for example the Cultural Revolution of 1966-1976 in China, some seem rather peaceful like for example the Bolivarian Revolution from 1999 - today. Of course there is allot of dispute among historians and politicians about such historical changes so it may be very difficult to find objective documentations about them. Worse even, some states have declared it a capital crime to own, distribute, cite or just ask(!) about versions of (their) history beside the official one. --Kharon (talk)

We have the article on Soviet sale of Hermitage paintings, but actually the Bolsheviks sold much more than paintings (furniture, libraries and fine china from imperial palaces being particularly in demand). --Ghirla^-трёп- 18:43, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

People such as Margary Merriewther Post and Norton Simon bought loads of Russian Imperial and Noble objects particularly in the 1920s-30s when the government attempted to raise cash. Post's home outside DC is a showcase of Russian objects.2605:E000:1301:4462:904E:DC75:3814:4202 (talk) 19:37, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

September 4

What are free ports good for?

Besides being useful for criminal activities, why would developed nations, under the rule of law, not only tolerate, but enable them?--Doroletho (talk) 00:35, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The idea is that low taxation stimulates economic activity. --Viennese Waltz 07:22, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure that this applies 100% to Free economic zones proper, like Gibraltar or Ceuta. That is, region that are far away from the main economic hubs and need a helping hand to stay afloat. But what about London Docklands or Free_economic_zone#Germany Hamburg in Germany. Does the government have any special interest in developing these? These regions are close to very active markets. --Doroletho (talk) 12:18, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In the case of the Docklands, as the article you linked to says:

"Between 1960 and 1980, all of London's docks were closed, leaving around eight square miles (21 km²) of derelict land in East London. Unemployment was high, and poverty and other social problems were rife."

It then explains that the docklands were made a special economic zone between 1982 and 1998 to encourage growth, which it certainly achieved very visibly, for anyone who has seen the docklands before 1982 (although please note the article also mentions controversies). --Lgriot (talk) 15:02, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Simply because ships that transport goods around the world often do not only travel from port A to port B. Especially modern container ships like the Mærsk Mc-Kinney Møller (ship) may collect and/or deliver containers in multiple locations at their shippinglines start and end (see sample route here).

If the ports where "tax zones", the captain would have to declare and pay taxes for his whole cargo multiple times, no matter he never intended to deliver containers 4504-18000 to the first port he visits at the end of his tour but only containers 1-4503. So the ports need to be free zones because else both the Shipping lines and the local tax authorities would have to handle 3-4 times the bureaucracy they handle with a free port, beside some special problems with cargo that may be legal in London but illegal in Rotterdam. --Kharon (talk) 22:43, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard of a captain of a modern container ship having to pay import duties on the cargo carried on his ship. That generally is the responsibility of the person / company that receives the goods.DOR (HK) (talk) 15:57, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Kharon's contribution is, let's put it politely, bollocks. Obviously, container ships or recipient of containers don't pay import duties when the containers are in transit and remain in the ship. In the same way, a cargo plane making a stop somewhere won't pay import taxes on its cargo.

Not all ports are free ports. Many important ports are not free ports, like Hamburg. Quite in contrary, most ports are not free ports, but have provisions for goods that won't be imported (yet). That is, there are customs bonded warehouses, where different tax regimes can be applied, depending on the the type, origin and destination of the products.

Free ports, as pointed above, have an important positive impact on a region, because different activities can be developed in them, that would not be possible if you applied import taxes on all products. Imagine you want to buy 100s of paintings (for speculating on a rising price), and you want to re-sell them internationally after a while. You can buy them and place them in a warehouse in a free port until you decide to sell them. Or, a company could receive spare parts for repairing ships. The spare part wouldn't be taxed after been fitted in any ship.

The idea is to receive goods tax-free, process them and export them using a more convenient tax regime. Indeed, it's a misnomer to talk about free ports. It's not just a a port, but a whole region with some industrial capabilities that's free. 87.220.80.204 (talk) 17:14, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Beranger

Anyone can help me find the full name of Beranger [1] (M is for Monsieur) from the List of diplomats of France to Hawaii? KAVEBEAR (talk) 02:05, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The full name would have been "Charles Béranger" https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/album_comique_cle86f7da.pdf. The poor boy has been treated like in the advertisement for a Jules Verne novel. No indication about the position C.B. would have assumed in Hawaii however. --Askedonty (talk) 10:44, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Or is it Paul Bérenger?

[2] [3] [4] Шурбур (talk) 11:15, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think you are absolutely correct https://archive.org/stream/annuairediploma05trgoog/annuairediploma05trgoog_djvu.txt --Askedonty (talk) 11:39, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I thinks it’s Paul. What is the accepted spelling Béranger or Bérenger? KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:17, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's Bérenger, for Paul, Béranger, where Charles is concerned. But Шурбур's links are undisputable, the one you are looking for is Paul Bérenger. In the Annuaire Diplomatique for 1870 I came upon - thanks to those links - they both are listed ( p40-41), Paul in Stettin like in Шурбур's third link, Charles, in Berlin like in the gouv.fr link illustrated above. I do not see any confusion left. Шурбур's first link is very beautiful. --Askedonty (talk) 16:44, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

PS There is other data in the same directory regarding Hawaii p42 and p69 which I wouln't know how to order in article so I'm leaving it here. Interestingly in it features a brigadier Béranger [5] member of the government of Spain. The name of this Spanish Navy official and that of a famous of French song-writer with the same spelling of name (Pierre-Jean de Béranger) would explain the 'A' spelling in your original source. They wouldn't have wanted risking being secretly accused of disseminating ignorant typos to the preeminently silent majority. --Askedonty (talk) 15:46, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Definition of term

In terms of Germany military during the World War II, what would x was the 2 Ic of y mean. I've found it in several document, and in part, i've see on on a article on WP where the Ic part meant Military Intelligence, although I thought it meant operations or intelligence operations. On here, [6]], Ic means General Staff Officer of a higher department (from Division to upwards), Intelligence Officer (Enemy), Security, so it could be military intelligence officer, but what would the two mean. Any ideas. It is from the Funkabwehr article. Thanks scope_creep (talk) 19:32, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The 'a', 'b', 'c' appear to be ranks, grades or classes within 'I' (Intelligence). 2606:A000:1126:4CA:0:98F2:CFF6:1782 (talk) 20:01, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"2 Ic" would be "2nd in Command". DuncanHill (talk) 20:05, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Why would the "I" be capitalized? 2606:A000:1126:4CA:0:98F2:CFF6:1782 (talk) 20:42, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Some British sources have 2IC [7] although I couldn't find an example of 2Ic - perhaps it was written by a non-native speaker? Alansplodge (talk) 08:46, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Or a typo. DuncanHill (talk) 15:17, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There is and never was a rank "Ic" in german military history, far as i know, so i assume it is a translation to english(?) military terms. Its likely assumed as self-declaring by the author(s) of the articles you found it in but obviously its not. You should therefor post your question on the discussion page of these articles and recommend to add the german term in some way like for example "SU".(english "Staff-Sergeant" german "StabsUnteroffizier"). In my opinion foreign military ranks should not be used simply translated without reference or hint of origin. --Kharon (talk) 23:14, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No it is not a typo. I have seen used in several context. In some documents, I saw it as Ic being equivalent to A2 in American military, I think. There is also A3 in American military organisation, but I couldn't identify what the A2 and A3 meant. The A2 aspect, is used as English translation, all over the TICOM documents. I will try and find it in Google GBooks now. scope_creep (talk) 12:10, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a reference, I found it several other, and I settled on that definition as intelligence officer. Would 2 Ic mean second in command or adjutant to the intelligence officer.

Christer Bergstrom (19 December 2014). The Ardennes, 1944-1945. Casemate / Vaktel Forlag. p. 10. ISBN 978-1-61200-315-3. Retrieved 7 September 2018.

It looks like qualifier of position:

Bob Carruthers (15 May 2013). Handbook on German Military Forces. Pen and Sword. p. 100. ISBN 978-1-78159-215-1. Retrieved 7 September 2018.

Also p.105

It needs an article I think. I dont how to approach it.scope_creep (talk) 12:25, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think I'm going to get the book. scope_creep (talk) 14:17, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Found the book online and the designation. Here it is:

[8]] Section II, in Diagram [II-1]. It seems I-c, 2. Generalstabsoffizier, of the Oberbefehlshaber der Heeresguppe that is Commander-in-Chief of the Army Group. So it is senior officer in German High Command within the Army Group, commanded by the Commander-in-Chief of the Army Group. So I think it is answered. Its seems to be a commanding officer, directly in command above him. scope_creep (talk) 15:00, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

September 5

Why was Duff Norwich?

Why did Duff Cooper choose the title Viscount Norwich? DuncanHill (talk) 01:45, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

All I can find is the joke he made. Is it possible he chose the title because of the joke? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:55, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"A little Norwich is a dangerous thing". According to Diana Cooper: The Biography of Lady Diana Cooper by Philip Ziegler, it was entirely based on that joke. Discarded suggestions included Unicorn, Sansterre, St Fermin and Erewhon. Alansplodge (talk) 13:52, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

So it's that joke. And there was me wondering if he'd based his title on this. --Antiquary (talk) 14:41, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I thought of that too. I dimly remember a comedy sketch (maybe Peter Cook and Dudley Moore), about a well spoken gent dictating a telegram which he wanted to be signed NORWICH, the gag being that he was actually the Bishop of Norwich. Alansplodge (talk) 18:42, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I also vaguely remeber a sketch - in which he was actually the Bishop of Korwich (to make a point about the correct spelling of Knickers). Wymspen (talk) 11:15, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not quite, it was their former BtF collaborator Alan Bennett, and his character only speculates what the Bishop of Norwich means when he uses that signature. I wonder whether the existence of the acronym explains, at least in part, Viscountess Norwich's refusal to use that title. --Antiquary (talk) 20:17, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Antiquary, it was even more "dimly" than I thought :-) Alansplodge (talk) 11:46, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, the whole monologue can be read in The Very Best of The Secret Policeman's Ball. Alansplodge (talk) 15:02, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)That was code used in letters home from service people of the day to their loved ones. There were many more which I have forgotten. Someone asked me if I knew what these codes meant, and that one I guessed aright. 86.133.58.87 (talk) 18:50, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

See World War II postal acronyms for more. --Antiquary (talk) 20:17, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think the gent would have signed himself Norvic [9]. See also this gem from [10]:

I heard a (probably apocryphal) story about a bishop and his wife signing into a hotel. The bishop wrote (picking arbitrary names for the telling) "John Barchester and Mrs Joan Smith". The clerk saw what had been written, and said: "I'm sorry sir, we are not that sort of hotel".

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.58.87 (talk) 19:07, 5 September 2018‎

If he was John Barchester his wife would be Mrs John Smith. Mrs Joan Smith would be the widow of Mr Smith. DuncanHill (talk) 20:23, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've read of an allegedly true version of that story, in which the husband was a Scottish judge of a type that has the title Lord Somewhere, but (at the time) his wife was not Lady Somewhere. (British Titles by Valentine Heywood or Haywood, 1951. One of these months I really do intend to catalog my boxes of books, so that on occasions like this I'll know which box to look in.) —Tamfang (talk) 06:34, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

According to this source, is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad specifically referred to as a mujaddid?

Does the following citation: "Rippin, Andrew. Muslims: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices. p. 282." specifically refer to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a "mujaddid"?

Here's that page:

Rippin, Andrew; Associate Professor of Religious Studies (2014). Muslims: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices. Routledge. p. 282. ISBN 9781134274376.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

No mention of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad or mujaddid on that page; but he is listed in the index for two pages not available in the Google preview. 107.15.157.44 (talk) 03:10, 5 September 2018 (UTC) ... @Batreeq: P.s: you can add after the citation: {{not in source|date=September 2018}}.[reply]

Gold, frankincense and myrrh

If Yeshua received these gifts, why was he in poverty? What happened to these valuable gifts? 76.71.156.186 (talk) 03:28, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There are some theories in Biblical Magi. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:04, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, as the Spartans might say: If. Iapetus (talk) 08:40, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note that the Bible doesn’t say how much of each item the magi gave. Blueboar (talk) 10:42, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Poverty is not eliminated by a one-time infusion of cash. --Jayron 32 12:04, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It depends how much and how stupid the receiver is doesn't it? The personality that plays state lotteries a lot and is willing to have their name broadcast so hundreds can beg them for money just happen to be the kind that often takes the lump sum and goes broke no matter how many millions they have. Even the largest gold bar (12.4 kilos) is only 23 years of the US poverty line for a family of 3 (more if you get interest) so the OPs assumption that the amounts usually depicted in Magi art was enough to take 3 out of poverty for 35 years seems possibly false. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:38, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's not clear that he lived in poverty anyway. He came from what we would qualify today a middle class household, as his father was a skilled tradesman. Obviously, the Flight into Egypt would have been disruptive to the family's finances, but that was a short episode. --Xuxl (talk) 12:54, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Also, they were headed to Bethlehem in order to be taxed. It's hard to be taxed successfully if you don't already have some assets. They didn't stay in the stable because they couldn't afford to stay at the inn, it's just that there was "no room at the inn", so they improvised. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:28, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Greek apographesthai is translated in the KJV as "to be taxed" but is more literally "to be written down", which in modern translations is usually given as "to be registered" or "to be enrolled" (context). While to most likely purpose of such an exercise would have been for the purpose of taxation, that it was done for "all the world" (oikoumenēn) implies that wealth would not necessarily have been taken into account. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 04:13, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a serious, non in-universe reference for "they were headed to Bethlehem in order to be taxed"? I'd always read that that was a adjunct to make the global narrative fit better with prior prophecies but with no historical evidence. 2A01:E34:EF5E:4640:C93B:24F4:374D:22CC (talk) 10:51, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You may find Census of Quirinius useful. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:59, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That seems to be very much an-in universe reference and from the article itself "There are major difficulties in accepting Luke's account: the census in fact took place in 6 CE, ten years after Herod's death in 4 BCE; there was no single census of the entire empire under Augustus; no Roman census required people to travel from their own homes to those of distant ancestors; and the census of Judea would not have affected Joseph and his family, living in Galilee." 2A01:E34:EF5E:4640:C93B:24F4:374D:22CC (talk) 11:15, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like you've got it all figured out. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:18, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If Jesus/Yeshua followed Asceticism as a lifestyle, he may have simply renounced his material possessions by choice.: "Natural asceticism involves a lifestyle which reduces material aspects of life to the utmost simplicity and to a minimum. This may include minimal, simple clothing, sleeping on a floor or in caves, and eating a simple minimal amount of food. Natural asceticism, state Wimbush and Valantasis, does not include maiming the body or harsher austerities that make the body suffer." Dimadick (talk) 14:10, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Lynching of Black Maguire

In The Way Ahead, one of the characters recites the dramatic monologue The Lynching of Black Maguire. Was this written for the film or was it an existing piece? DuncanHill (talk) 14:25, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Google can only find it in the film script, so it looks as though it was made up. Only the first two lines are recited: "It was hot that summer in Kicking Horse / And the earth was parched and dry". Google can't find that either. I imagine that most actual music hall monologues would still have been in copyright in the 1940s. Alansplodge (talk) 17:42, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Those lines are reminiscent of the work of Robert W. Service, though I suppose that aspect of his style was not entirely unique. --Trovatore (talk) 17:55, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(ec)Thanks, there are a few bits more in the film and in the script you linked, "And the town was full of the frontier force... Though nobody seemed to know why", "Men looked with their eyes, nor was there a sound, For looks were as hard as knives", and the ending "As the sun went down, all there could see, Against the glowing ball of fire, hanging from the highest tree, The body of Black Maguire". I suspect it was written for the film but it sounds a ripping yarn. DuncanHill (talk) 17:57, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Out of interest, there really is a place called Kicking Horse Pass on the Alberta/British Columbia border. Alansplodge (talk) 18:50, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Where in Somerset was the Isleworth Mona Lisa found?

Our article on the Isleworth Mona Lisa says it "had been hanging for over a century in a manor house in Somerset", and our article on Hugh Blaker says he found it "in the home of a Somerset nobleman in whose family it had been for nearly 100 years". I would be interested to know which house and which family, thank you. DuncanHill (talk) 14:42, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This says it was Montacute House. --Jayron 32 15:24, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Magical Realism

Who are some of the major authors of magical realism? Goldfinch155 (talk) 18:41, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

FFS. Magic realism --Viennese Waltz 18:43, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This link Magic realism#Major authors and works will save a little scrolling. Gabriel García Márquez is a particular favorite of mine. MarnetteD|Talk 19:56, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Magic realism writers would also have some good places to start. --Jayron 32 20:21, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Selling something easily

I've heard the term for this concept, but I can't remember it. Imagine that you have a commodity: what do we call its capability to be converted rapidly into currency? For example, "It's easy to ____ a small number of casino chips; just go to the casino and redeem them for cash", or "Given the city's recent history, it's quite difficult to _____ a house in much of Detroit; the property will likely remain on the market for a long time." I thought maybe "liquidate", i.e. one converts property into liquid assets, but Market liquidity is talking about the effect of a sale on prices, rather than whether it's possible to sell it in the first place. Capitalization Covering The Concept Of Writing With 52 Glyphs, Not 26, I checked Capitalization (disambiguation), but again it didn't seem to cover conversion of assets into cash. If the term I'm imagining exists, it covers everything from casino chips to small change (the bank is generally happy to convert small change into paper money) to real property to bitcoin, whether "selling" or "exchanging" or "redeeming". Context — I'd like to say that it's difficult to _____ a certain kind of asset, so someone who's rich on paper may not be as rich as he thinks he is. Nyttend (talk) 23:42, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In your first example, I would say "cash in", where "cash" is used as a verbe. But for the second one it would be "sell", though it could also be "cash in on". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:25, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds as asset liquidity, which does not exist as an article, but maybe should. In a balance sheet, assets are ordered from high to low asset liquidity, so, it's not something binary. Gold is more liquid than stock, which is more liquid than vehicles, which are more liquid than real estate. Based on how long the asset will need to be liquidated (that is, be converted into cash, the more liquid asset), you can say it's a liquid asset or an illiquid asset. Doroletho (talk) 01:08, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, the standard adjective is "liquidity". A "liquid asset" can be sold readily. Additionally, things like casino chips are often referred to as "cash equivalents", as they can be readily converted to cash at a known value. So your sentence would be, it's difficult to liquidate a certain kind of asset. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 03:54, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps "monetize"? (apologies to the zed folk)--Wehwalt (talk) 12:11, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Market liquidity seems to cover the concept? --Jayron 32 15:12, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A good approximation would be.. 'supply llama'. "It's easy to ____ a small number of X". Supply llama refers to "loot" in online gaming, with "loot" meaning disposable resource. More conventional would be a shortcut like "to convert" but I think it's bad practice to easily consider liquidation, and that's why you do not find a proper term except like "cash in". --Askedonty (talk) 20:43, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

One possibility is also "to realize", per 2a in https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/realize but this meaning is not generally well known and in most contexts will not be understood. 194.174.73.80 (talk) 17:21, 10 September 2018 (UTC) Marco Pagliero Berlin[reply]

"Realising the value of an asset" is standard commercial terminology. The phrase "X realised Y pounds/dollars at auction is also widely understood. 86.133.58.126 (talk) 19:45, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

September 6

Young Adult Fiction

What is the first book to be categorized as Young Adult Fiction?206.188.44.157 (talk) 22:07, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, here's a beginning. In the Oxford English Dictionary Online, the phrase "young adult" as an adjective is defined as "Of or relating to a young adult; (now) esp. designating or relating to fiction, films, television programmes, etc., intended or suitable for adolescents in their mid to late teens". They cite 5 examples of the phrase being used, dated 1826, 1865, 1942, 1983, and 2012. The 1826 and 1865 cites are about "young adult age" and "young adult population", but the 1942 cite refers to books being selected "for the ‘Young Adult’ collection" of a library in Illinois. So whatever books were first "categorized as Young Adult", they must have been published before 1942.

Of course, if you're specifically talking about categorization by publishers and bookstores rather than libraries, it's possible that that happened later. --76.69.47.228 (talk) 01:12, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Does our article on Young adult fiction answer this? "The modern classification of young-adult fiction originated during the 1950s and 1960s, especially after the publication of S. E. Hinton's The Outsiders (1967). The novel features a truer, darker side of adolescent life that was not often represented in works of fiction of the time, and was the first novel published specifically marketed for young adults as Hinton was one when she wrote it." Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:52, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The earliest specific book I could find was Call of the Land by Harold Sherman, published in 1948 and described as a "young adult novel" by Wisconsin Library Bulletin the same year. --Antiquary (talk) 09:15, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

September 7

What was the title or name of the occupation of a storyteller in ancient Greece or Rome?

For example the word Griot is used for a storyteller from West Africa but what were they called in ancient Greece or Rome? 50.68.252.153 (talk) 02:06, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As to Rome: according to Cassell's Latin Dictionary, "storyteller" translates into Latin as narrator. --76.69.47.228 (talk) 05:16, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

aoidos, rhapsode. Шурбур (talk) 06:44, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Also fabulator. --Antiquary (talk) 08:54, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And Aoidos. --Xuxl (talk) 13:43, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No platform for the far left?

There have been several well publicized cases in recent years of far right politicians and other figures ~~not being allowed to speak at public events~~ not being invited to speak in a particular setting. The justification for this is normally that such people should not be given a platform from which to espouse their far right views. See here for a recent example. However, there do not appear to have been many, if any, calls for people espousing far left views to be prevented from speaking.

Is there a double standard at work here? The reasons for giving no platform to the far right are clear, but what about the far left? Aren't their views equally as abhorrent as those of the far right? This is not a request for opinion or an invitation to debate. I would like to know why there is no pressure to deplatform speakers from the far left. --Viennese Waltz 07:16, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There's a category error in this post; it's not about "not being allowed to speak at public events," it's about who is chosen to be invited to speak in a particular setting. Steve Bannon is free to speak anywhere he likes. There is no First Amendment right to be an invited guest of The New Yorker.

To more specifically answer your question requires more information. Who do you consider to be on the far left and what have they been speaking about? If your definition of "far left" is "someone who supports single-payer health care in the United States," well... the view that single-payer health care should be implemented in the United States is not equivalently "abhorrent" to public opinion as the view that, say, America should implement laws to remain a majority-white country. One is a legitimate, if debatable, question of health policy, the other is naked white supremacism. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 07:38, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I have struck out the offending text and replaced it as per your wishes. To answer your question, no I'm not talking about someone who supports single-payer health care. I'm talking about people who espouse the ideology of Marxism–Leninism. --Viennese Waltz 07:46, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with "no-platforming" is not about whether it violates the First Amendment (basically if it's not the government doing it, it usually doesn't, with a possible caveat related to Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robins). It's about whether to have an open discussion, hearing people's reasons before making a decision on them, or whether to foreclose certain views in advance — with the further observation that whoever gets to decide which ones to foreclose in advance has a noticeable advantage in promoting their own views. See Overton window.

As for the original question, I think there are plenty of cases of attempting to deny platforms to left-wing speakers, though I don't have immediate examples at the top of my head. Search the archives of http://reason.com and http://thefire.org, which cover such things as they apply to multiple sides. They probably don't call it "no-platforming", but that's just a matter of terminology; which term you use is an identifier for which tribe you're in. --Trovatore (talk) 07:50, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There sadly seems to be a significant number of people these days proposing racist policies in many countries around the world. I don't see an equivalent number of people proposing Marxism and Leninism. HiLo48 (talk) 08:15, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It would make it mucheasier if you gave examples of left wing iideas or people a university for instance might reasonably deny an audience to? And as to racism I'd have thought that came more under populism or nationalism than right-wing though far-right parties do seem to often go in for it. Dmcq (talk) 08:32, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Actually thinking about it, would the Chinese party be considered left-wing? I would consider it very racist and certainly a number of other left-wing states have been. Dmcq (talk) 08:39, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There has certainly been effort to silence or ban the BDS movement which is associated with the left wing, though not Marxist-Leninist. Some disinvitations: [11] 2607:FCD0:100:8303:5D:0:0:B7D4 (talk) 10:06, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe because when we hear "Palestinian" we're programmed to think "terrorist". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:26, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Or, maybe worse yet, when we hear "BDS" it sounds like someone's trying to say BDSM. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:55, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

One of the main reasons is that in the minds of a large number of "BDS" supporters, the purpose of the movement is actually to protest against the existence of Israel itself, and not just against specific Israeli government actions and policies. Also, in the United States, many people opposed to it think it's basically the same thing as the Arab League boycott of Israel, which was highly unpopular in the United States.... AnonMoos (talk) 18:02, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Marxism/Leninism may be economically misguided (though I always wonder how such a broken system brought Russia from a state where it was beaten in WW1 by the Germans with a minuscule part of their army to a state where it bled Hitler's Wehrmacht dry in just 20 years), but it is just another economic system. It's not the same as fascism. It's not inherently racist or sexist. Also, how often have you heard say the Heartland Institute or the Hoover Institution inviting Noam Chomsky or Bernie Sanders? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:41, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It may not be inherently racist or sexist, but it is inherently anti-individualist. It's not in error just from the point of view of economic consequences. It's morally in error. --Trovatore (talk) 18:46, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. Although definitions differ, Marxist/Leninist parties tend to be rather explicit about democracy and civil rights being low priorities. Someguy1221 (talk) 02:39, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The original question appears to be based on the false equivalency that racism is somehow equivalent and opposed to shared means of production, and that when an organization decides to not allow speakers that espouse racist policies, that somehow they are duplicitous by allowing speakers which espouse an economic policy. The use of terms like "far left" and "far right" makes them seem equivalent and opposed, and hides the real nature of the philosophy. --Jayron 32 11:43, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jayron32 has hit the nail on the head, and I endorse his response.--WaltCip (talk) 16:46, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Marxism/Leninism is not only, or even mostly, an economic theory. It's a program for a vicious regime of repression, which when put into maximal effect has had outcomes every bit as horrendous as fascism. --Trovatore (talk) 18:58, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Beware. People who have claimed to be Marxists and/or Leninists have put things into effect that are indeed "every bit as horrendous as fascism". Yes, they have done, and I say this as a communist. Stalin was a brutal dictator, an abhorrent dictatorship is what he built. But I don't see why this is connected with a specific "anti-individualist" idea that you want to have found in Marxism-Leninism. Also, I can't see why "anti-individualism" (which you want to charge Marxism-Leninism with) should be "morally in error". This is a position I have mostly heard from the GOP and its supporters. Still, I think these people - Stalin, Hoxha, Mao Zedong,... should, and would be disinvited just as frequently, if not more frequently, than the far-right.

However, not everybody who is "far-left" or espouses Marxism-Leninism admires Stalin, Mao Zedong, Kim Il Sung or Mengistu Haile Mariam. I, for example, don't. I would say that all those dictators - except possibly Fidel Castro - cannot claim to be true Marxists-Leninists.

And speaking out for the ideas of August Bebel, Karl Liebknecht or Arthur Crispien, or the ideas of James Connolly, Patrick Pearse and Éamonn Ceannt, or supporting Kwame Nkrumah and Julius Nyerere or Sahra Wagenknecht is - while just as much a "far-left" position as admiring Mao or Stalin - not nearly as bad as showing admiration for Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, Heydrich etc.

So why do you demand that everybody who has even remotely far-left ideas be disavowed and made a political pariah like people on the far-right political fringe? --ObersterGenosse (talk) 20:37, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't demand to make anyone a pariah. I am willing for all ideas to be expressed, even the ones I find sharply and morally in error. This is somewhat separate from the issue of freedom of speech; it's more about open discourse, which overlaps with freedom of speech but is not quite the same thing.

However, if you're going to try to refute equivalency by bringing up communists who weren't quite as bad, I can point out that there were also fascists who weren't quite as bad as Hitler. I would rather live in former communist-lite San Marino than in Nazi Germany, but, even allowing a Rawlsian veil of ignorance, I would rather live in Franco's fascist-lite Spain than in Stalin's Ukraine. --Trovatore (talk) 20:47, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What do you want? Go back to McCarthyism and the - in my opinion extremely un-democratic - HUAC? Or do you want to see more right-wingers at public speeches? --ObersterGenosse (talk) 21:09, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I want open discourse. I don't especially want to listen to Steve Bannon or Alex Jones, myself. But I don't want them silenced by pearl-clutchers. --Trovatore (talk) 21:13, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

They are not silenced. Jones has a Website and a radio show. Bannon has Breibart. There is no "right to be invited" - what would that be based on? The right to free speech does not imply that you will be provided with an audience. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 23:44, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think anyone has violated Jones's or Bannon's right to free speech. As I said, that's a somewhat separate matter. It's not about their rights.

Don't get me wrong; if anyone did violate their right to free speech, of course I would be against that. But that isn't my argument. --Trovatore (talk) 23:50, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, maybe I don't understand your argument. Jones, for example, is a self-admitted serial liar. He is not participating in a public discussion, he is making money by playing on the emotions of "people with a limited world view". Why would you expect anybody to offer him a platform as if he were a serious debater? I can understand him being booked for a comedy club, or maybe as part of a festival on the Theatre of the Absurd. But not as a serious speaker on political or social issues. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 00:07, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

He's been banned from, for example, Twitter and Facebook, which are open to almost everyone, including liars and people who aren't particularly serious. What bothers me is not so much that Twitter and Facebook have decided they don't want them — that's their prerogative as private entities, though they are large enough that I'm concerned about their market power (what if American Airlines decided he couldn't fly with them, for example?).

What concerns me is that they've done so in response to a bunch of people yelling loudly about it. That's a bad precedent; it tends to enable a heckler's veto, which is something we shouldn't have, no matter how many people agree with the hecklers. --Trovatore (talk) 00:13, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I frequently see consensus defined on Wikipedia as "There are more of us than you, so you're wrong, and what you think has no place in the article" (Not officially, of course, but in practice on some articles.) HiLo48 (talk) 00:21, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Touché!!! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:08, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

So unfortunately I'm going to give an opinion/suspicion, but I did look for sources! At least. Anyway, I can't find any comprehensive list of people who have been no-platformed in the explicit context of having a speaking thing cancelled. I echo the above that there is a false-equivalency. There are people on the left who are as awful as anyone on the right, but there is a difference in the attention they are paid, if nothing else. There are black-lives-matter activists literally calling for white genocide, communists calling for a violent revolution, atheists calling for religion to be banned, etc. Of course they exist - pick any group of humans, and you'll find that 1% are consistently awful. But thinking mostly about social media, but also media in general, the difference is that the lunatics on the right get a lot more attention. They are much better known. And they appear to be disproportionately the targets of deplatforming because college republicans often deliberately invite controversial speakers, not to provoke debate, but to make left-wing students look bad when they inevitably overreact. The left-wing lunatics are probably just not getting invited in the first place. The closest similarity you can find are the various college professors who have been fired or or otherwise punished for, usually preaching violence or hatred, but in a way that might be described as far-left, or simply anti-white. Someguy1221 (talk) 02:52, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm for free speech as in allowing for instance someone from ISIS to talk at a university meeting where their views can be debated in a structured context. I think the real problem nowadays is with social media and the way their algorithms drive people to enclaves of more and more extreme views. There is a big difference between one person talking to a group who have to actually travel to hear them and it being pushed to millions of people who wouldn't have considered it in the first place. Something like Speakers Corner in London is fine. Videoing it and putting it on YouTube is not. And I'm also very much against personalized email shots pushing political views where others can't see what nonsense is being pushed or try and counter it. I only hope that people growing up now have a more skeptical view of what comes over the internet but I'm not at all confident they do. Dmcq (talk) 12:28, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No one's being forced to watch, either on a street corner or on youtube. It's by choice. And therein lies the problem. I concur with your skepticism. Quite to the contrary, it seems like more people than ever are willing to believe bizarre stuff spewing from the internet - which they actively go looking for. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:56, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Here's an NYT article[12] claiming youtube pushes extremist content, basically as click bait to generate advertising views. 2607:FCD0:100:8303:5D:0:0:B7D4 (talk) 21:24, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That article seems fair enough. It isn't that people setting up YouTube are evil, it's simply that AI recommender systems are set up to pick content that engages users because that brings in the most ad revenues. And people tend to click on more extreme content of all types rather than anodyne truthful stuff so that is the stuff it picks out to recommend. It isn't just politics, try practically anything people people can have strong views on. Fixing it is a difficult problem because the imperative 'make more money' is easy to program, 'do no evil' and yet make money - that is a very difficult thing to program a computer to do. Dmcq (talk) 10:10, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If rock music still counts as greasy kid politics, there was that time Marilyn Manson was formally booed out of Utah. And the Clear Channel memorandum kerfuffle. Or how the whole world was afraid of metal for a while. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:34, September 8, 2018 (UTC)

Baron Sonnino's mother

Our article Sidney Sonnino says he was born in Pisa to "a Welsh mother, Georgina Sophia Arnaud Dudley Menhennet". The source used describes her as "un’inglese che allevò i suoi figli nel culto anglicano" (an Englishwoman who raised her children in the Anglican cult). The New York Times report of his death says he was born on the banks of the Nile, and that she was Scottish. Menhennet is of course a Cornish name. I would like to know more about her - was she Welsh, English, Scottish, or Cornish, and how did she end up married to an Italo-Egyptian Anglican Jew in Pisa? DuncanHill (talk) 15:51, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Quick question - why Menhennet? Italian wiki says her surname was Dudley. Georgiana Sophia Arnaud Sonnino, nata Dudley 70.67.193.176 (talk) 18:03, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The source used in our article, the Centro Studi Sidney Sonnino, says Menhennet. DuncanHill (talk) 18:11, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oh no, more competing sources :) This will be a tough one. Here's the Italian wiki source, but unfortunately the book isn't readable online. [13] 70.67.193.176 (talk) 18:16, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

She is a woman of mystery. Now I'm finding sources that say her surname was Terry. These ones all say her father was an English merchant and she grew up in Portugal and Egypt. If you google Sidney Terry separately, he also lived in Mumbai. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 19:45, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"apparently Georgina herself did not know her precise birth date. Some accounts describe Lisbon as her birthplace.50 Others refer to Bath, England.51 It appears that her father was one Sidney Terry, a native of Lisbon and son of British parents.52 But there is no consensus concerning the identity of Georgina's mother, who is usually described as English, or, somewhat less precisely, as British, someones as Scottish,53"

"Georgina met Isacco Sonnino in Alexandria. By January 1843, they were engaged to be married. As Sarah Terry, her adoptive nother, put it (in a letter to Amelia): Mr. Sonnino was a "Man of good Fortune:, who had "settled a handsome sum of money on Georgina"."

"Georgina was the dominant personality in the Sonnino household. She concerned herself with the upbringing and education of her children with great care - particularly since her own childhood has been, as she put it, "void of all affection".74 All the Sonnino siblings were baptised into the Anglican faith"

"... dei cinque figli di Isacco e di Georgiana Dudley Terry, anglicana, fu improntata ad un rigore morale di stampo vittoriano."

"Georgina Sonnino was most probably the illegitimate daughter of an English merchant, Sidney Terry. In 1843 she had married Isacco Sonnino in Alexandria, Egypt."

"Sidney Sonnino, infatti, era italiano, nato a Pisa nel marzo del 1847. ... una giovane, Geor- gina Sofia Arnaud Dudley Menhennet, figlia del mercante inglese Sidney Terry, la quale era stata a sua volta allevata in Portogallo e poi in Egitto."

"His father was a wealthy Tuscan (of Jewish origin), who had lived in Egypt for years, and his mother, Georgina Terry, was English"

On a separate issue, I don't think I'd translate Italian culto by English "cult"... AnonMoos (talk) 18:36, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

More for the language desk, but you're right; "mode of worship" would be less likely to invite misunderstanding. That said, this use of the word "cult" is not unknown in English, though it's usually restricted to fixed phrases like "the cult of Mary". --Trovatore (talk) 20:33, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In certain (mainly) technical scholarly uses, the English word "cult" can have a neutral meaning, but otherwise the word has overwhelmingly negative meanings... AnonMoos (talk) 13:19, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

How/Where to buy greeks short maturities bonds ?

I’m considering putting some of my savings in short term Greek bonds directly without using an investment funds.

As I’m not Greek and doesn’t live in Greece, how can I buy them remotely on the Athens Stock Exchange (or an other stock exchange if they are traded elsewhere). 2001:861:3A00:61C0:F525:FB70:751E:8ED9 (talk) 18:33, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We do not offer financial advice. Consider consulting a financial advisor.--WaltCip (talk) 18:36, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) This was the first link in the Google Search titled "Buying Greek bonds". --Jayron 32 18:37, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The reference is outdated. I’m talking about since the greek state come back issuing bonds on the bond markets. This isn’t about financial advice (I’m not asking if it’s a good investment) but where to buy. 2001:861:3A00:61C0:81B4:8EC6:5F43:C721 (talk) 19:34, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

F. Herrick Herrick's first name.

I'm looking for the first name of F. Herrick Herrick. I think he is the one who was involved peripherally in the movie industry though you'll probably see his connection with Apollo 15 postage stamp incident. He was living in Miami at the time (1971) and apparently died in 1987 in Michigan. Obviously I'm looking for a RS if possible.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:13, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, not an answer to your question, but wow! life imitates art, huh? In The Man Who Sold the Moon, there was a small subplot where stamps were supposed to be brought along, but Harriman forgot to get their weight taken into account in the flight-plan calculations, so they had to be left behind. I think they were fraudulently added to the manifest even though they weren't brought, so that they could be sold afterwards. In the real-life case, they were brought along but not put on the manifest, so not exactly the same, but so reminiscent. --Trovatore (talk) 22:38, 7 September 2018 (UTC) [reply]

I've read the story but had not made the connection. The astronauts knew their science fiction too. Wonder if any of them ever have made the connection.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:14, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

September 8

Why did the Southeastern US's population grow much faster than the interior South's?

Based on this map, you can see that the population of the Southeastern U.S.--specifically Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida--grew much faster than the population of the interior Southern U.S. (specifically U.S. states such as Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Tennessee, Kentucky, and West Virginia):

https://i1.wp.com/factsmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/us-states-population-growth-rate.png

Out of the nine interior southern U.S. states, only Tennessee grew by more than 100% between 1950 and 2016. In contrast, out of the seven Southeastern U.S. states, all of them other than South Carolina grew by 150% or more between 1950 and 2016.

What exactly is the reason for this discrepancy? Why exactly did the Southeastern U.S. grow much faster than the interior Southern U.S. did between 1950 and 2016? Futurist110 (talk) 02:34, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There are several things to consider, the first that came to mind was your keyword: "interior". Access to ports and major navigable rivers is vital for commerce (thus growth), and the Appalachians were a hindrance (later mitigated by rail and highway). The second is relative population; by 1950, some states were already quite populous, with less "room to grow"; whereas places like Nevada (which saw 1,736% growth in that period) were virtually unpopulated. I'm sure there are other reasons such as access to resources, etc. (as discussed below). 107.15.157.44 (talk) 04:09, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

To some extent this reflect the trend for growth to be concentrated in urban and suburban areas, and by strong higher education institutions attracting economic growth. One might also speculate on the role of certain political and sociological factors. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 04:18, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I would note that all of the states cited as quicker growers either have or are close to major economic centers, with transport made easier by the interstate highway system, the exceptions being North Carolina (a relatively slow grower compared to the others) and Florida (which was less attractive to live in in 1950 due to the lack of widespread air conditioning). Florida also benefited from development prompted by the space program, and from being attractive to retirees due to weather and low taxes. There have always been fewer, less populous cities in the interior South. Note that the attractiveness of cities to some does not exempt them from population and economic near-collapse when their reason for being goes away (Detroit, though outside the area mentioned, a city dominated by the same political party for the entire period spoken of, or Baltimore, whose role as a port and manufacturing center has long been in decline).--Wehwalt (talk) 11:13, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're mistaken on North Carolina and Florida; North Carolina has the sixth fastest growing metro area in the U.S. (the Research Triangle), and the third largest in the southeast after the Fort Myers, Florda and Myrtle Beach, South Carolina areas. Metrolina and the Piedmont Triad are only just off of that list of top 20 fastest growing metro areas; List of U.S. states and territories by population growth rate shows that in the Southeast, the three fastest growing states are 1) Florida 2) South Carolina and 3) North Carolina. --Jayron 32 01:55, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Why basketball and volleyball but not baseball or football?

Why have basketball and volleyball spread around the world, but not baseball or football? In the case of football it might be that the gear is significantly more expensive, but I fail to see any reason why Europeans/Africans and so on don't play baseball. --Doroletho (talk) 15:19, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Baseball and American football are both played in England. But cricket and soccer, respectively, were there first. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:49, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is random speculation but perhaps because basketball and volleyball can be played casually almost anywhere and with a very limited number of people whereas one needs proper teams to play baseball or gridiron in any sensible way? Basketball and volleyball also seem much simpler rule wise which perhaps plays a role. I also found this article about "how the NBA went global" which perhaps answers part of the question. 37.138.73.248 (talk) 19:13, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Baseball is a simple game. You throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the ball." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:01, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

So is cricket and imagine learning the rules of cricket if you didn't know any bat and ball sport. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:17, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Cricket is kind of like baseball with only two bases. I recall taking a foreign-born colleague to a baseball game. He had never seen either baseball or cricket, and found it baffling. Of the two, cricket might be easier to grasp for someone who's never seen a bat-and-ball game. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:27, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Our article List of organized baseball leagues is informative. Baseball is played seriously and is very popular in many Latin American countries and in Japan, Korea and the Philippines. I am interested in a guy named Les Mann who tried very hard to spread baseball around the world. He was responsible for getting baseball included as a demonstration sport at the 1936 Berlin Olympics. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 20:32, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Japan, Korea, Philippines, many Latin American countries have had American influence via the presence of large numbers of American military.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:13, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Baseball and American football are both played in England, true, but so are shin kicking and ferret legging. I'm not sure which are the more popular. They are both very minor sports. Perhaps it's because we already had perfectly adequate sports of walloping balls with sticks, and large blokes running into each other. OTOH basketball (which is also extremely minor in the UK) at least doesn't have such a direct competition. We do have netball though, and that's much more common than volleyball. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:39, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A more interesting original question might have been why global sports like cricket and rugby (and football of course) are not more popular in the US, when they are popular elsewhere. Although some elements of US culture (some music, some films, some TV, some soft drinks, etc.) are popular around the world, the original questioner may not be aware that many other elements are viewed with complete bewilderment (and occasionally despair) in other countries. Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:15, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Because at the time association football was becoming popular in the UK (late 19th century), baseball was the big team sport in the US, played at many levels, and given the attitude of many Americans towards Britain in the 19th century, a sport seen as British (baseball, despite its origins, was not) wouldn't necessarily be popular. Soccer has become more popular in the US as those who played it at a youth level have grown up. Cricket is less widely played. I don't even think I saw it on television, growing up in the US in the 1970s.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:42, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Cricket and soccer have histories in America, but baseball and American football eventually exceeded them in popularity, at least in terms of professional sports. Soccer was certainly well-known in America. Yogi Berra said he and his friends played soccer when they were kids. It's a great kids' game because they have lots of energy and can run all afternoon. And in the early days, some large expanses of land were used for both cricket and baseball. (Elysian Fields, Hoboken, New Jersey for example. And Recreation Park in Detroit.[14]) The obvious problem with cricket is that it took days to play, while a baseball game would be over in a couple of hours. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:12, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As noted in Baseball in Japan, it was first established there in the 1870s. One event that expanded interest was a 1920s tour involving Babe Ruth and a number of other top-level American players. That gave the game in Japan a boost. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:17, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

First-class cricket takes days to play, certainly, but each team goes to the wicket twice. On games afternoons during the summer there is no problem in completing a game during the time available. If a pupil was due for after-school detention and the playing field was some distance from the school that pupil would be expected to return after the match. 86.133.58.126 (talk) 15:48, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Peripheral to the discussion of baseball's popularity in England, some might care to read our article Baseball Ground, and perhaps also Baseball in the United Kingdom. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.60.253 (talk) 17:09, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It may be best to think that it is rare for two sports occupying a similar ecological niche to both be established in the same culture. The "hitting a ball with a stick" sport is either cricket or baseball but rarely both in the same place; the "tackling a runner with an oblong ball" sport is either Rugby or American/Canadian football but rarely both, etc. Of course I'm sure someone will find an exception or two, but by-and-large, that seems true. Basketball spread in many places because they didn't have a "throw a ball into a hoop" game locally that basketball had to supplant. --Jayron 32 01:49, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And then you have a country like Germany that has neither a "hit ball with stick" sport nor a "tackling a runner with an oblong ball" sport. Add to that plenty of american cultural influence due to military presence, past and present. And still neither of the two sports have any meaningful following, nor are they played much from what i could see(rugby and cricket certainly are even less popular than the american 'variations'). In the end there probably just are so many factors that make or break any given sport in any given place that it is impossible to say. 91.97.248.0 (talk) 03:24, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

So what are the popular sports in Germany? Soccer (as a spectacle) is more of an international business these days, so it's everywhere. But what do people in villages and smal towns play for their own amusement? Andy Dingley (talk) 10:02, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

RP online has an article leading to a list of the most popular sports in Germany by number of corresponding club members (Vereinsmitglieder). The link actually shows the figures for North Rhine-Westphalia, you have to click on the map of Germany or forward a page in order to see the nationwide data, listing the following top five sports:

Football / soccer (6,592,290 members)
Gymnastics (5,018,819) Actually "Turnen", the German popular variety of gymnastics, see also all sorts of forms listed in that article and the articles on Turners, Friedrich Ludwig Jahn, ...)
Tennis (1,439,736)
Athletics (833,009)
Handball (!) (786,748)

The article was published in 2015 and says its figures are from the German Olympic Sports Confederation (DOSB).

Of course there are local differences, for example North Rhine-Westphalia's top five also include swimming. Another map there shows, however, that every State of Germany's number one sport by membership is either football (in 10 states) or gymnastics (in 6 states).

And I realize this isn't quite what you asked, but I found no numbers on what people play in towns and villages (whether as member of clubs or not, and the DSOB obviously didn't count individual joggers or even people who have membership cards at a local gym). In terms of ball games, I believe no observer of German towns and villages will deny that football is number one, very visible outdoors, and often played ad-hoc without membership etc, like basketball in lots of places in the U.S. Other lists I saw mention table tennis besides the three ball games already given above. ---Sluzzelin talk 11:34, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think the key issue here is that basketball and volleyball can both be played indoors in a gymnasium. Here in the UK, most people play those sports while they are in school, substantially fewer play them as adults at the local sports centre and very few actually pay to watch a match. You can only see basketball and volleyball on mainstream TV when the Olympics aor Commonwealth Games come around. See Outside of annual NBA event, Brits slow to embrace basketball: "We don't have a strong professional league, there's no easy access to facilities or to good coaches, we don't have a hugely wide participation base, we don't have enough good professional clubs, and we don't have a clear, predefined pathway for young talent." Alansplodge (talk) 13:05, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I had an idea that soccer is regarded as a "cissy" sport in the United States and Australia, which is why they don't play it (there are soccer leagues in Australia, but many of the teams have Italian names). I attended one Australian rules football match - as I recall the shape of the ball and the goalposts is similar to rugby, which is also strong in Australia. Soccer is strong all over Europe - Ireland has Gaelic football and I believe soccer is weaker there. "Tackling a runner with an oblong ball" sport seems to be confined to English speaking countries. 62.49.80.34 (talk) 13:45, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Or "sissy" as Americans spell it. I recall a Miller Light Beer commercial where Dick Butkus squared off against a ~~soccer~~ player, and at some point Butkus referred to the ~~soccer~~ player's "cute little shorts". My mistake - Butkus was actually talking about Rugby![15] Just imagine what he would say about soccer! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:47, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Andy, people do play association football a lot in organised amateur teams. Almost every small town has a team, even a fair few of tiny places have teams. There are 24.958 teams with over 7 million people registered for teams in Germany, out of a population of 82 million,(primary source and in german but should be trustowrthy). Basketball is not that popular but always played in school, same for volleyball. They are part of the curriculum in physical education. So every German pupil will have come into contact with the two sports. 91.96.117.113 (talk) 15:18, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I also found a number of about 23,000 people being registered for baseball teams in 2017. Basektball has over 200.000 registered and volleyball has over 400.000 registered players in more than 7000 teams, all in 2017. Can't seem to find numbers on gridiron though. 91.96.117.113 (talk) 15:34, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Formulas for popular art

Certain chord progressions in music are more likely to be popular (like I–V–vi–IV progression), but are there other formulas that apply to the popularity of other forms of art? What are they? 121.45.102.242 (talk) 17:52, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The tutu tata drum pattern in braindead rock music. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:18, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tutu tata, whoa-oh-oh? Or the other thing? InedibleHulk (talk) 20:55, September 8, 2018 (UTC)

That's the drum pattern, I don't know what it's called. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 08:12, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Golden Mean in fine art --TammyMoet (talk) 20:22, 8 September 2018 (UTC) Scrub that, I knw what I'm thinking of but it's obviously not known as that. It's the form of a spiral leading to the focus of a painting...--TammyMoet (talk) 20:26, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There is something called the Golden ratio. Bus stop (talk) 20:33, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Paint by number kits sold rather well, though the resultant art didn't. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:44, September 8, 2018 (UTC)

Saving the cat and other formulas, in movies.[16] 2607:FCD0:100:8303:5D:0:0:B7D4 (talk) 21:44, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The most pervasive formula in movies would be the three-act structure. There are lots of books available that teach you to write screenplays to this formula. The hero's journey is also popular as a story structure. --Nicknack009 (talk) 11:41, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Somewhat related: Painting by Numbers: Komar and Melamid's Scientific Guide to Art ^{(ISBN 0520218612)} (hmmm... I thought we had a article). Which is a semi-serious, but mostly tongue-in-cheek analysis of formulaic art. Somewhat related to the somewhat-related is: The People's Choice: Music -- I KNOW we have an article on that -- I helped edit it. 107.15.157.44 (talk) 22:06, 8 September 2018 (UTC) ... that should probably redirect to: "The Most Unwanted Song"[reply]

France 1815-1848

Is 1815-1848 classified as First Empire? If not, why not? Is there a similar title... better than Bourbon restoration? MBG02 (talk) 20:23, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No, because the French First Empire is 1804 to 1815, under Napoleon who actually used the title emperor. Whether France was still an empire after that is a good question - since it had and still has overseas colonies, it has pretty much always been one, at least under that definition of empire - but aside from the Second Empire period, its rulers haven't called themselves emperors. Adam Bishop (talk) 20:39, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

These terms refer to the system of government rather than the possession of overseas colonies. The progression goes:-

French Revolution (1789–1792)
French First Republic (1792–1804)
First French Empire under Napoleon I (1804–1814/1815)
Bourbon Restoration under Louis XVIII and Charles X (1814/1815–1830)
July Monarchy under Louis Philippe d'Orléans (1830–1848)
Second Republic (1848–1852)
Second Empire under Napoleon III (1852–1870)
Third Republic (1870-1940)

Our article, France in the long nineteenth century, gives an overview. Alansplodge (talk) 14:08, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The UK monarchs disdained to claim to be "British emperors" or anything of the kind, and were satisfied with the title "King" in that context. They only claimed to be "Emperors of India" after the Mughal dynasty was deposed (and gave up the title after India became independent in 1947). I would guess that the Bourbons had a somewhat similar attitude, only reinforced by the fact that the title "Emperor" was associated with the Bonaparte family... AnonMoos (talk) 16:09, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

British monarchs did not "disdain", they where forced by civil institutions who claimed to stand above the monarchy. See Trial and execution of Charles I for example. --Kharon (talk) 22:38, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Edgar the Peaceful (943-975 AD) liked to refer to himself as Totius Albionis imperator augustus (August Emperor of all Albion) after he temporarily subdued the Scots, but the title didn't catch on. Alansplodge (talk) 10:04, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Historians call it the Bourbon Restoration, but at the time, diplomats and journalists simply referred to it as the Kingdom of France (when not using just "France"), right? --Lgriot (talk) 13:57, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Frankincense

(Prompted by 05Sep Q above). What was frankincense called in Hebrew, at the time. What, in Greek, and what in the Septuagint. Why was “frankincense” used in the 16C (onwards) translations. 120.16.137.31 (talk) 20:39, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Frankincense has everything you need - in Hebrew it was lebonah, and libanos in Greek (actually our article doesn't say so but that's what the Magi bring in the Greek New Testament account). Franc incense (pure incense) was what it was called in medieval French, which is where the English word comes from. Adam Bishop (talk) 22:23, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's pronounced Fronk incense! --47.146.63.87 (talk) 08:21, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What are the instruments that cover at least the b1 to c5 range?

What are the list of instruments that cover at least the b1 to c5 range?177.177.208.76 (talk) 22:37, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Not a list per se, but the article on Range (music) includes a long chart showing instruments and their (standard) ranges. Maybe someone else will filter out those that fit your range - there are several. (I added "standard" because a lot of instruments, particularly in the wind and strings families, allow for playing notes way above their standard highest note. See e.g. altissimo and harmonic. This is not reflected in the chart.) ---Sluzzelin talk 06:04, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

September 9

Nanchang Changbei International Airport

The Nanchang Changbei International Airport article claims that it has a direct flight to Kansai International Airport, but the Kansai International Airport does not list this flight. Which one is correct here? Mũeller (talk) 03:00, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the flight from the Nanching airport article because the flight was supposedly served by Beijing Capital Airlines, but the airline's web site gives no indication of such service. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 17:38, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What form of phrase is this?

Here's the example: Great Wall cloud of China. You see the word cloud is embedded within the phrase "Great Wall of China", putting cloud after wall would make the two-word phrase "wall cloud". But in proper phrasing, "cloud of China" or "Wall cloud of China" would not be correct, rather it would be continuation after 'Great Wall' as if the word cloud wasn't embedded in them. Would you call the wordplay form "embedded" or could it be more specific? Planet Star 06:04, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The phrase "Great Wall cloud of China" is meaningless and has zero Ghits. What is the context? Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:09, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It sounds like a cousin to a Portmanteau. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:06, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

On Jeopardy! they will occasionally have a category they call "Before and After" which takes two unrelated phrases and hooks them together via the word they have in common. Example: "All-Star pitcher who is also a 1980s shopping game show." Response: "Who is Chris Sale of the Century?" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:39, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just by the way, I'm pretty sure (from watching both shows a lot) that Wheel of Fortune was using these constructions and identifying them as "Before and After" well before Jeopardy! ever did. --76.69.47.228 (talk) 16:45, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

All the better. (I don't watch WoF - too much fluff, too little game play.) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:38, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

From the OP's example, we have obviously the Great Wall of China; a wall cloud, which precedes a tornado; and cloud computing. So maybe something to do with China's approach to "the cloud"? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:42, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

PlanetStar -- I would call such things an "interrupted idiomatic phrase", but I have no idea what your example is supposed to mean, or what purpose it was intended to serve... AnonMoos (talk) 16:13, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. The OP needs to tell us where he got that expression from. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:45, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm finding out what it is called so I can included in my hangman categories. The expression is used as an example so anyone can figure what form of expression is this. AnanMoos may have gave an answer as "interrupted idiomatic phrase", which is long and can be acronized as IIP, but not all of them are idiomatic. An example of a non-idiomatic one is Michael Jordan Jackson comprising of "Michael Jordan" and "Michael Jackson", but not "Jordan Jackson". In analogy it is like there is a wall splitting the sides into two-thirds and one-third on one level but in the other level it goes all the way across it. Another example using common nouns is death metal trap comprising of "death metal" and "death trap", but not "metal trap". Then if we replace the word "trap" with "chain", it would make it a proper before & after phrase.

There's some examples using your username, Baseball Bugs. An example of interrupted phrase is Baseball game Bugs and Baseball lady Bugs, while that of before & after is Baseball Bugs Bunny which you like and Major League Baseball Bugs. Planet Star 02:26, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

So you've never actually seen "Great Wall cloud of China" used anywhere? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:35, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't really sound like an actual thing, but it seems at least related to tmesis. Abso-blooming-lutely. - Nunh-huh 12:09, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Which 1917 election?

Anyone who can deduct whether this poster is intended for a list for the Russian Constituent Assembly election, 1917 or for Jewish community elections same year? http://www.palestineposterproject.org/poster/vote-no-6 --Soman (talk) 15:12, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It has no particular connection with Palestine that I can see, but it's in Yiddish, and the first line says Tsum alRuslendishen Idishen Tsuzamenfahr "For the all-Russian Jewish XXXX" (not sure what the last word is, but it contains the element spelled "zusammen" in German)... AnonMoos (talk) 15:44, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. If you put צוזאמענפאהר in Google Image Search, you get some interesting stuff, but I'm still not sure what it means... AnonMoos (talk) 16:00, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks. It appears that it is then an election poster for the All Russian Jewish Congress (also held in 1917), and cannot be used to illustrate the Russian Constituent Assembly election, 1917 article. --Soman (talk) 16:31, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

By putting "What is the Yiddish word for congress" into Google and clicking around a little, I eventually found https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the-meaning-of/yiddish-word-750edd9419b8a426dad02452de0a2d756d8ec8c4.html , so I'm pretty sure you're right... AnonMoos (talk) 16:39, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

What do you make of this one? https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/03/12/arts/12jewishcommunists1/08jewishcommunists1-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp For List 4 in the Constituent Assembly, Jewish community body or municipal election? --Soman (talk) 17:19, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Or this? https://i.pinimg.com/474x/40/49/2b/40492b994946829eb206b1d462ef052e--russian-revolution-rabbi.jpg ? --Soman (talk) 17:20, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I can't see the NYTimes one on this computer right now due to incompatible SSL protocols. In the Pinterest one, I can only read the second line quickly and easily: des Idishen Natsionalen "...the Jewish National...". AnonMoos (talk) 21:27, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Is it a coincidence that Tsuzamenfahr looks like Zusammenfahr and could be seen as "fellow traveller" in the socialist sense? Rmhermen (talk) 19:11, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Republicans and democrats on free trade and outsourcing

Have the Republicans and Democrats changed their positions on free trade and outsourcing ever since Trump won the presidency? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.67.108.46 (talk) 22:29, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Which Republicans and which Democrats? Both American parties are Big Tent parties, and people with a bewildering variety of political opinions within them. --Jayron 32 01:42, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

184.67.108.46 -- in a sense they have, but mostly superficially in the case of Republicans. In recent decades, the Republican party has been a triad of culture-warriors (anti-abortion and anti-gay-marriage types), defense and foreign policy hawks (neoconservatives and those in favor of high military spending), and economic plutocrats (those who want large tax-breaks to be given to corporations and the very wealthy, and largely got their way in last year's tax bill). None of those three factions was interested in workers' well-being or opposed to free trade deals. Democrats contained both a trade-union aligned faction (largely opposed to free trade deals) and a corporate & finance aligned faction (made up of people who fly off to Davos conferences and largely support free trade deals). This state of affairs has been disturbed by a leftward drift in the Democratic party starting even before the Trump presidency (with the widespread rejection of the Trans-Pacific trade Partnership among the Democratic party rank-and-file in 2016).

With Trump's presidency, Trump killed the TPP (which was opposed by most ordinary Americans) and has claimed an economic "populist mantle", but has done very little to benefit workers in his tax and budget policies, instead trying to attract worker support by visibly cracking down on immigrants and erratically starting tariff wars (neither of which benefits workers in any useful way). But his updated version of NAFTA recently renegotiated with Mexico did contain some provisions favorable to workers, and attracted some trade-union support... AnonMoos (talk) 04:41, 10 September 2018 (UTC)`[reply]

September 10

women working in cable news and at national newspapers

When did women start working at CNN, at The Weather Channel and at USA Today?142.255.69.73 (talk) 07:13, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

From the first day those companies started operating. There aren't many national companies in the USA since the early 1900s that have been 100% male. CNN's page on the Wiki even states that the first real newscast was hosted by a man and a woman. Nanonic (talk) 07:23, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Since all of these were launched in the early 80:s, I'm quite certain from the start. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:49, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]