Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Venetian school of fencing

Venetian school of fencing

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This article is a complete hoax copied/translated from Russian Wikipedia where the original article was deleted already. A complete discussion with thorough fact check is available (in Russian).

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:10, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:10, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:10, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment the 1908 Pompeo Molmenti reference in the article checks out. [1]. Thus, not a hoax, pace thorough fact check in Russian. 24.151.121.140 (talk) 17:57, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Please take a closer look at the contents you're referring to. Couple of mentions of "Venice" and "fencing" in one book isn't enough to add it to the references' list I believe. PeterLemenkov (talk) 19:02, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - As requested, a closer look at pages 74-75 of the public domain (published 1908 in Chicago) text, cited in the article and to which I linked above: "Although the duel went gradually out of fashion [in Venice], the young patricians cultivated the art of fencing, which could boast renowned masters among the Venetians from the sixteenth century onward; for example, Salvatore Fabris, who lived in the court of Denmark. In the Seicento Bologna alone could challenge the supremacy of Venice in fencing, The Venetians were masters of the art, and shared with their colleagues of Bologna the sound principles of fencing known as Bolognese or Venetian. After Fabris, the Venetian School can boast a Nicoletto Giganti, a fruitful innovator in the art of arms, Francesco Alfieri, of the Delia Academy in Padua, and Bondi di Mazo, who published in 1694 a treatise which contains plates admirably representing the movement and the thrusts at that time in vogue in Venice. In the eighteenth century Giacomo Borgoloco enjoyed a high repute. His school in the Calle dei Botteri at San Cassianto was frequented by young men of the noblest families, and also sent out such distinguished masters as Angelo Secchietti, Lorenzo Mottali, Vettor Dolioni, Pietro Busida, Alberto Bruni, and Paolo de Grandis." [footnotes omitted] Enough to establish this article is not a hoax. 24.151.121.140 (talk) 18:49, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Delete per WP:G3 as hoax. Am I doing this right? casualdejekyll (talk) 22:47, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Not a hoax. I emailed Matt Easton of Schola Gladiatoria. If you've seen any of his YouTube videos, you'll know that he's something of an expert on European swordsmanship. (I've never met him and have no involvement in HEMA; but I've written a couple of WP biographies of HEMA people, and had shown them to him for his interest.) He wrote : "I have just quickly scanned over this page, but I don't see specifically why someone would label it as a hoax. The sources are real and the citations are real (I even know some of the authors)." Narky Blert (talk) 14:56, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Not trying to invalidate your opinion, but I'd personally trust the source breakdown on ruwiki more then this, since they claim that none of the sources even mention the subject. casualdejekyll (talk) 16:03, 22 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep While this mention on a blog is insufficient to establish notability by itself, it is sufficient to establish that it is not a hoax. When combined with the citation the IP provided, it is clear this is a real thing. When combined with all the other sources in the article itself, it is clear that it is notable. Smartyllama (talk) 20:00, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This needs far more eyes on it given the proposed reason for deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 01:22, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I have no idea why people are using the logic of "it exists so it's notable". -Indy beetle (talk) 07:49, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The Russian Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Venice clearly had fencing masters and schools. The rest is then a matter of ordinary editing, not deletion. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:40, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]