Talk:Rebecca Sugar

Influenced By and Influence Of

It's probably worth noting that Jhonen Vasquez's work with Invader Zim had an influence on Rebecca Sugar when she was younger. There's an archive of some of her fan fiction from the early 2000s. I wonder what else influenced her or who she has influenced? --Bushido Hacks (talk) 19:02, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Pronouns

I was wondering, so I checked. According to the bio currently at the top of https://twitter.com/rebeccasugar, "She/her or they/them, thank you for caring!" --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:51, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

(I'm just commenting to draw attention to this observation, which is still accurate, since I see edits changing it back-and-forth some more. Not all non-binary people use they.) -sche (talk) 19:47, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

I didn't see this comment when I reverted back to "she" yesterday, and now I have it is clear the subject is happy with either form. However, the reference used in the article to support the fact that she identifies as non-binary uses "she". Dorsetonian (talk) 20:45, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

If someone uses both they and she, use both interchangeably. It's not hard. Shardok (talk) 08:23, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

No, pick one and use that. When Sugar says "pronoun flexible" that means she's okay with either, it doesn't mean she approves of or is seeking inconsistent usage. Keep in mind that English Wikipedia, more than any other, attracts readers from other languages and using two different pronouns could be very confusing, even leading one to believe that more than one person is being referred to, one with the she and another with the they. Currently, the article uses she/her, and has for quite some time. It should remain that way unless a future discussion gains consensus that it should be handled differently. Mathglot (talk) 22:12, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Rebecca Sugar is a non-binary woman.

Rebecca Sugar is a non-binary woman, and is the not only the first woman, but the first non-binary person in history to independently create a series for Cartoon Network. Those are two impressive moments in her history and to only mention one is partially erasing history. It doesn't matter what Rebecca publicly identified as during the show's creation, she came out because she wanted people to know who she is. She based her gems, from creation, to be nonbinary women like herself. To only give her half the credit is erasing history. The first person to be openly non-binary during a show's creation will not be the first non-binary person to independently create a series for the network, it will always be Rebecca Sugar. That is a fact, and it deserves to be known. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cultrocknroll (talk • contribs) 13:17, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Possibly, but we do not have a source stating this. We only have a source for the "first woman to..." aspect, not for the "first nonbinary person to ..." aspect. To avoid WP:OR, we must not draw unpublished, novel conclusions. Sandstein 13:25, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

I agree here with Sandstein. If we can find a reliable source that mentions her being the first nonbinary person to create a series for CN, then this should be updated, but right now, the best source says "woman".--Gen. Quon (Talk) 19:47, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

I also agree with Sandstein, along with the additional comment they made in the edit history: "this wrongly implies that there were binary women who had [d]one this before, which is not the case". Dorsetonian (talk) 08:20, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

I tried to find some sources for this, this link mentions "first non-binary woman", this link confirms it is the first series not created by a man (which directly implies there were no other known non-binary creators before). Would either of that be enough? Ynneblack (talk) 20:43, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

It only wrongly implies that if one wrongly believes that an accomplishment by a nonbinary person must come after an accomplishment by a binary person. Shardok (talk) 08:25, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Compare "Neil Armstrong was the first American to walk on the moon". That sentence is true, but it wrongly implies that someone of a different nationality had been there before, which is not the case. The qualification "American" is not only unnecessary, it also misleadingly belittles his achievement. Similarly, qualifying Rebecca Sugar's achievement is also belittling it. Dorsetonian (talk) 08:35, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Agreed. Sandstein 14:43, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

In response to this edit summary from Shardok: She is not a woman, she is a nonbinary woman. I'm legitimately confused by this. Surely to say that you are a non-binary woman is to say that you are both non-binary and a woman? I'm not sure it makes sense to say that she is "not a woman". Meanwhile if Sugar ever did come out and say "I'm not a woman" I would, in that case, fully support changing the wording of the lead. WanderingWanda (talk) 20:37, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

WanderingWanda (talk · contribs) I agree. I've always assumed "nonbinary woman" means someone who identifies as a woman but does not fit themselves into the socio-cultural gender binary. So she can be both, without one cancelling out the other.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 18:38, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

While I understand that Sugar says she identifies as a nonbinary woman, however as far as I am aware these are not compatible labels. A woman is a binary gender identity and nonbinary is a nonbinary gender identity. I am not certain what if any authority can confirm this however the LGBT foundation uses a definition that suggests one can't be a woman and nonbinary. I don't deny that she uses she/her/hers and they/them/theirs, and she may describe her identity as woman and non-binary but how should we proceed given that it isn't logically consistent? In regards to "does not fit themselves into the socio-cultural gender binary" if the noconformity is in gender expression they are simply gender non-comforming. Gender nonconformity isn't a gender identity and doesn't indicate gender identity. Technically neither does gender expression so it seems to be a moot point. [1]05:22, 5 February 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by BriarRose2020 (talk • contribs)

Emmy nominations

So Steven Universe was just nominated for another Emmy, and so someone quite sensibly increased the number of nominations Sugar has received from five to six. One problem though: the cited source, the Emmys website, still lists only five nominations for Rebecca Sugar. Is there a way to handle this? Do we just have to say, well, Steven Universe was nominated for a sixth Emmy, but Rebecca Sugar herself wasn't, because that's what the Emmy Awards website says? AJD (talk) 21:06, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Sorry for the late delay, but it looks like the site lists the sixth nom.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 14:27, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Profile picture

Why is Rebecca Sugar’s image here a picture of Matt Bennett? Ms8763 (talk) 03:10, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. AJD (talk) 03:31, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Non bianary woman?

No idea who this is but isn't non-binary women a contradiction? — Preceding unsigned comment added by LoganBlade (talk • contribs) 07:10, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Rebecca specifically called herself/themselves non-binary woman and is quoted explaining it here. Ynneblack (talk) 20:43, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

It is a contradiction in terms. Notably the article linked above doesn't actually explain the usage of the term. She establishes that the alien race (Crystal Gems) which do not reproduce sexually with eachother appear female. But are more representative of nonbinary women. It is unclear how this is the case. She states that they are nonbinary women and suggests they are more representative of nonbinary women than females. She says their also a nonbinary woman but we know it can't be for the exact same reasons as the crytal gems because Sugar is a homo sapien and would therefore have a binary sex or intersex condition. 05:30, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

"Non-binary woman" redux

In this interview, Rebecca Sugar describes herself in a couple of places as not identifying as a woman: "I don't really mind if people are perceiving me as a woman, but it's something I personally don't feel is true"; "I didn't feel like I could talk about the fact that I didn't identify as a woman." Does this mean we should revisit the "non-binary woman" description that we use in this article (also taken from an interview with Sugar)? AJD (talk) 17:18, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Oh, this is a good point, and a good discussion to be had. I'm curious if Sugar was expressing discomfort more at being seen as a "role model for little girls and women in the industry" given that she's a LGBTQ+ non-binary woman (i.e., not a normative woman in the way the media sees the term). IDK if that makes sense.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 21:19, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

I checked to see if anything more recent or clear had come out about this, and didn't spot anything except that Sugar's twitter (usable for WP:ABOUTSELF statements of gender) says "Nonbinary, bisexual, pronoun flexible, she/they": perhaps it is indeed time to revisit the "nonbinary woman" descriptor, given the statements above about not identifying as a woman and the twitter statement identifying as nonbinary (only). (We would then need to revisit and somehow reword/rework the "...first woman..." thing discussed a few sections up.) -sche (talk) 09:06, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Okay, time to update this. AJD (talk) 20:47, 31 January 2021 (UTC)