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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by John Broughton (talk | contribs) at 01:57, 14 January 2007 (→Article is now at deletion review: It looks like the process is 6 to 7 days, not 5 as I originally estimated.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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A belated welcome, which I have put at the top of your talk page for your convenience. NinaEliza (talk • contribs • count • logs • email) 02:16, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pablo Ganguli

To restore the article you must list it at Deletion review. Please see our Undeletion policy regarding the policy and the procedure. - Aksi_great (talk) 05:10, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nonsense pages

Welcome to Wikipedia! We could really use your help to create new content, but your recent additions (such as Majestic Petra Festival) are considered nonsense. Please refrain from creating nonsense articles. If you want to test things out, edit the sandbox instead. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. --cj | talk 13:43, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

sorry but people such as yourself abuse their wikipedia rights. why have you deleted my pages? they are leading international festivals and you call them nonsense? how very ignorant!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zeouspom (talk • contribs) 08:02, 17 December 2006.
Perhaps my labelling of the articles as nonsense was incorrect. However, they still qualified for deletion. Please cease using Wikipedia to promote Pablo Ganguli.--cj | talk 22:40, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
"perhaps it was incorrect"? so now you are saying you are unsure? im not promoting him but the work this young genius is doing worldwide. just google him. and also why did you delete the international festivals? why dont you delete kiran desai, shobhaa de, shabana azmi, hay festival? sorry but wikipedia is ridiculous.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zeouspom (talk • contribs) 08:14, 17 December 2006.
No, I'm saying it's open to interpretation. It is clear you can't approach this with a neutral point of view, which is precisely the problem, not to mention the lack of a single reliable source – yes, I've looked.--cj | talk 22:55, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
single reliable source? neutral view? please have a look at the following then. many thanks indeed. i have been to all his festivals since im mad about literature and cultural diplomacy. i appreciate your help. i thought wikipedia was all about providing accurate info. the guardian and the times in britain hailed him as one of the country's youngest literary impresarios organising international festivals all over the world to promote britain.
let me know if you want more.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zeouspom (talk • contribs) 08:44, 17 December 2006.
I'm not particularly impressed with any of the links you provided. I don't feel any of them would solidly satisfy notability criteria. --cj | talk 23:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
kitab is india's annual festival of literature. jewel of russia is st petersburg's only international cultural relations festival. Arts in Marrakech and Majestic Petra are the only Arab international festivals of their kind in the Arab world. Pablo Ganguli has earned his reputation as a leading cultural guru among the Moroccan, Indian, UK and various cultural worlds...and with due respect, a wikipedia editor is not impressed? how very sad!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zeouspom (talk • contribs) 09:51, 17 December 2006.

Your note on my page

You posted a note to my talk page that cited my comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pablo Ganguli, and said You are VERY wrong! Please get your facts right. He has directed a great number of festivals all over the world and they are all renowned featuring eminent world-class personalities. and Connect UK is the UK's south pacific cultural diplomacy body which he founded and directed at the age of 17. not in charge of anything at all? Remember - ignorance is not an excuse?

I notice that you've not been able to convince other editors that the links you've provided meet WP:RS standards. So perhaps this page would be a good place to have some further discussion on that, before you spend a lot of time writing (more) articles that will just get deleted. For example, what links can you provide (below, not on my talk page) that show that Mr. Ganguli has directed (let's say) at least THREE "renowned" festivals, and that they featured "world-class" personalities? John Broughton | Talk 02:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

here they are

let me know if you want more links. i work closely for a company that does mr ganguli's events management in london.

Okay, I'm convinced

Okay, there should be an article on him. One thing, first: you need to read WP:COI, since that limits what you should do.

I suggest starting by getting a copy of the last (now deleted article) put into your user space, where you (and I can help) can get it into shape to be put back as a Wikipedia article, in such good condition that no one would even think about suggesting it for deletion. Getting such a copy is called userification; you do it by requesting a copy here. When you've done that, please let me know (mention that the deletion was on November 18th via AfD). John Broughton | Talk 17:14, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

sorry - all very confusing since im no expert. please could you kindly help? 18:41, 17 December 2006 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeouspom (talk • contribs)
Okay, I'll ask for a copy of the article, but it's going into your userspace, as User:Zeouspom/Pablo Ganguli, unless an admin objects. Also, please follow Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages, even for your own talk page. Thanks.
Also, as an aside - I don't think the individual festivals in and of themselves deserve separate articles, but they certainly should have a paragraph or so, each, in the Pablo Ganguli article, and there can be redirects so that someone looking up a festival will end up in the appropriate section of the main article. John Broughton | Talk 18:48, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I deleted the userfied version and restored the edit history behind the protection. It can be reviewed here. Please redelete after an appropriate time span. ~ trialsanderrors 20:25, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Article deleted

The page has been deleted and locked once again as you continue to recreate the article. I have told you before to take the matter to Deletion review. If there is consensus there to recreate the article then the page will be unlocked and the article created. - Aksi_great (talk) 19:07, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It would be better if you follow the suggestion given by him above closely. - Aksi_great (talk) 19:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Zeouspom - I'll talk to Aksi, if necessary.
Please DO NOT delete text from your talk page, particularly the discussion we're having - among other things, those links are very useful. Moreover, blanking the page might be taken as meaning that you didn't want me to see Aksi's comment. I'm sure that's not the case - as you probably know, there isn't really any way - short of action by an administrator - to truly "delete" anything that a user has done, but other editors might misunderstand.
Also, you really could do me a big favor by reading and FOLLOWING Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages. It's very simple - you put four tildes at the end of your comment on a talk page.
Finally, DO NOT under any circumstances create ANY new articles related to Pablo Ganguli without discussing it with me first. You may be very close to a violation of WP:COI that could get you banned from Wikipedia; if you've not read that policy, I urge you to do so now. The right way to do this is to build a really good article over the next week or so, as a user page, and THEN follow the process (which we'll discuss then) to get it approved to be added back. If you try to bypass that process and post the article again - or any other article related to Ganguli - you'll probably just get in trouble, and I'm as likely as not to decide to spend my time elsewhere. I'm helping out here because I do think this could be a useful article for Wikipedia, but if you screw things up, I really don't have enough interest to get entagled with your problems. John Broughton | Talk 19:32, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Next steps

The article is now at User:Zeouspom/Pablo Ganguli. I've removed all the promotional wording; please do NOT put it back. Think about writing an article that will be in Encylopedia Briticannica, not a press release, please. To that end, I suggest reading WP:NPOV and WP:V in addition to the other policies mentioned above.

The goal is to edit the article WHERE IT IS. Do not move it, copy it to another location, use parts of it for a new article, copy parts of it to other articles, or otherwise do anything but add to it.

I suggest starting by

  • copying the links, above, that you've cited, into the article (I've set a new section)
  • coverting a couple of links (say, the Forbes article, and the one that you found in findarticles.com - Evening Standard, I think, into citation form - WP:CITE. I'll then take a look.

I've very hesitant about you adding text to the article until you've mastered how to do citations. That's because virtually every sentence in the article probably should be referenced/footnoted. Take a look at George Allen (politician) as an example of how many sentences are footnoted. So once you've mastered how to do a cite (it's not that hard, really; I suggest editing the whole page and doing previews), THEN you should add text and a cite; add more text and another cite, and so on. If you just add text, you're going to have to go back and figure out where the information came from and THEN add a cite. John Broughton | Talk 22:01, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]


my version

many thanks indeed. please have a look at the page now and advise when you have a moment. Zeouspom 09:04, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I did some editing: I converted the three sources in the "References" section into (foot)notes per WP:CITE (although I didn't use the formal notation for citations; you can make such changes if you want).
What's important is, as I mentioned elsewhere, that virtually every sentence needs to be documented. I've done that, and put "citation needed" tags where the three articles did not provide any support for text in the article. (And, obviously, the three articles wouldn't have been expected to cover everything.)
What would be good, now, is if you would try to do the same. (a) Find an article from a good source (Forbes is one), and (b) look through the article for neutral facts - what the festival was about, the speakers, etc.; background on Ganguli, whatever; (c) copy the sentences with those facts to the article, and (d) tweak them a bit to avoid copyright violations, then (d) add the citation (start with a "ref" tag, end with a "/ref" tag). In the first note/cite, use a "name" field to identify the cite (for example, "Paper-YY-MM-DD"), as described at WP:CITE. If you find some text that supports what now has a "fact" tag on it, you should (e) remove the "fact" tag, since a citation is no longer needed.
In other words, the next step is for you to do what I just did, but with other sources, adding more information. Just do one or two, and then let me know that you've done some, and I'll take a look and give you some feedback. Thanks. John Broughton | Talk 19:52, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And thank you for signing your talk page postings. John Broughton | Talk 19:54, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You did a small amount of copyediting. You didn't add any sources (such as Forbes), which I thought was surprising, since you went to all the trouble to find a number of good links (above). The article still has lots of "citation needed" tags, which needs to change - either a source is found for these tagged sentences or they have to be deleted.
I realize that I could expand and improve the article solely by myself. I'm trying to avoid that temptation because I don't want to maintain it, and because if you don't learn how to put stuff correctly into the article, any updates that you do to it could very well cause trouble. If you don't have any futher time for improving the article, let me know, and I'll consider my options, but right now the article is NOT ready to go public in any. John Broughton | Talk 21:06, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]


October 2006 source

You wrote there was a huge article in october about him in the saturday times magazine and all his future festivals but there is no onliny version sadly of the piece. Wikipedia doesn't require a source to be online in order to be used. It's helpful, of course, and offline sources are regarded a bit more skeptically, but if they're accessible in a library, they certainly are acceptable for Wikipedia if they meet WP:RS.

Would you be willing to post, here, the text that you'd like to add to the article? (There are copyright issues if a large amount of text from a source goes into a Wikipedia article unchanged, so if you can post here what you think is the most relevant parts of the article, I'll pick and chose from that, and change some wording, and add it to the Wikipedia article we're working on.) Thanks. John Broughton | Talk 01:51, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the Saturday Times article info. You didn't mention the actual date. Also, do you want any other info from that article other than the Russia event to go into the Wikipedia article? If so, you should type that out here. John Broughton | Talk 22:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Article status

Thanks for the additional sources you posted on my talk page. I'd already looked at all of them, and decided that they didn't have anything additional to add to the article. (Yes, they described Ganguli in different ways, but the fastest way to get this article rejected is to make it look like a vanity piece, with different folks gushing over Ganguli - how much he's accomplished, how exotic he looks, how surprised they were, etc.) At this point, we really have enough articles describing the two festivals that have taken place; more citations just look like we're adding citations for the sake of citations, which isn't good.

What I'd really like, to finish the article and get it put in Wikipedia officially (it's already coming up pretty high in Google searches, by the way), is anything on the Russian and Turkish festivals. Do you have any links to official websites for these festivals? Any link to any news article that even mentions them? If not, we're going to have cut the text back to something like "Ganguli has also discussed holding a festival in St. Petersburg in October 2007 and a festival in Turkey in 2008, but nothing has been officially announced." So any links that you can provide would be greatly appreciated. John Broughton | Talk 23:12, 2 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, please provide (below) the sentence mentioning the Russian festival as well as a full article detail (author, date, page number if you have it, article title), formal title of newspaper. As for Turkey, we can go with "A festival in Turkey in 2008 has also been mentioned." - the counterpoint british council page (what's the URL?) will be okay for that, I think. John Broughton | Talk 03:07, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Article is now at deletion review

You'll find the article listed at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 January 8. Please do NOT modify the article under ANY circumstances until the deletion review is finished. If it needs changes, let me know. Also, I strongly recommend AGAINST your commenting at the deletion review - let others decide. John Broughton | Talk 00:01, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Three editors have commented positively on the article, and I expect that to continue, and, more importantly, the admin who deleted the article hasn't opposed the re-creation of it. But the process is hardly over yet.
As for what to do next, the answer basically is "wait". At some point (either when the regular time is up - five days?) or when it becomes clear there is a consensus (which could be in only a day or two), an admin will close the discussion and take action. If things continue as they're going, that action will be the admin moving the article from your user space (that is, from where it is now) and making it into a regular article. John Broughton | Talk 15:22, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at Wikipedia:Deletion review, it looks like all items that are more than six days old have been closed. So, to answer your question, we wait two days (at most).
And, technically, I don't think we can move the article into mainspace, even if we wanted to; I believe creating the article again requires an administrator. Even if we could move the article, we'd be extremely foolish not to let the process run until it closes. There have been only positive comments about re-creating the article (with some minor, and well-justified caveats), and there is no reason to do anything that would cause problems at this point. John Broughton | Talk 01:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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