User talk:Wcherowi

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Re: Kepler Fraud

Thanks for revising my edit instead of deleting it. :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler's_laws_of_planetary_motion

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Catenary contribution deletion

Hello, why did you delete my contribution? My solution is valid and verified by faculty peers. If you have any mathematical or logical criticism, please elaborate. If not, please do not strike down with no reason. — Preceding unsigned comment added by R.zalman (talk • contribs) 21:04, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Your solution was unsourced as I mentioned in my edit summary. Wikipedia does not publish original work (see WP:NOR), so no matter how correct the solution was, it can not be used until it is published in a reliable source.--Bill Cherowitzo (talk) 22:52, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Percentage point

Dear Wcherowi, The changes I made you reverted as "good faith edit". However, I'm afraid that the current definition of the percentage point may be interpreted in the way that 44% - 40% = 4% is wrong. Of course, it is 4 percentage points as well. I am not against "percentage points". However, from the mathematical point of view, the arithmetic difference of two percentages is the value in percentages again. So, I wanted to ask why did you revert my contribution? I'm looking forward to your reply, so I can improve my contribution. ToMiBi (talk) 16:43, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

The whole idea of introducing the term "percentage point" is to avoid the confusion that you are trying to introduce. Percentage points are not percentages. Your insistence on saying that m% - n% = (m-n)% is just a meaningless manipulation of symbols. While it is true that you can express a percentage point as a percent, it is not given by this simple-minded formula. A change from 1% to 5% is a change of 4 percentage points, but an increase of 400% (and not 4% as you would like to say), and the example in the article, from 40% to 44% is likewise a 4 pp increase, but a 10% increase. You can not equate percentage points with percentages because the percentages depend on the magnitude of the quantities and the percentage points do not.--Bill Cherowitzo (talk) 23:29, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

The water level indicator displays the water level in a rainwater tank from 0 to 100%. It corresponds to the volume of water divided by the volume of the rainwater tank. Let's say (due to the rain), there is a change of water level from 1% to 5%. I agree that the volume of water has relatively increased by 400%. However, it is still true that the water level has increased by 4%, since water level is defined as the volume of water divided by the volume of the rainwater tank. And that volume of new water corresponds exactly to 4% of water level change. In other words, if the total water volume divided by the tank volume is 5%, could you explain why the new/added water volume divided by the tank volume is not 4%???

So, the problematic part is not the percentage itself, but 1) expressing what is a base of percentages, 2) providing the information if the increase is expressed as a relative change (fold change) or as a difference (absolute change or actual change).

Wikipedia says: "For example, moving up from 40% to 44% is a 4 percentage point increase, but is a 10 percent increase in what is being measured."

To me, it is not clearly defined what is being measured... "The water volume or the water level"? It is a relative increase or an absolute increase? Moreover, if 40% + 4 pp = 44%, then for sure it implies that 4 pp = 4% (otherwise we cannot sum up these numbers).

I hope you can see my point. ToMiBi (talk) 19:41, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

No, no. You are making the same mistake in different terms. Percentages do not add or subtract as their numerical values. A simple example will show this. Suppose you have 100 ml. of milk that is 30% cream, and 100 ml. of milk that is 50% cream. Add the two together and you have 200 ml. of milk that is 40% cream (and not 80% cream, as you would have it). Another example shows that you can not use a simple additive rule without taking into account the total volumes. Again, 100 ml. of 30% milk and now 300 ml. of 50% milk. Combined this gives 400 ml. of 45% milk.--Bill Cherowitzo (talk) 20:43, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

I completely agree with your example. There is no discussion about that. Or are you suggesting that I can use percentage points instead? I.e. add or subtract p.p. as their numerical values? In that case I do not agree with you (200 ml. of milk that is 80 p.p. cream makes no sense to me). Moreover, my example is telling a different story. You basically said that I'm not taking into account the total volumes. Ok, let's fix this. If rainwater tank volume is 100 liters and there is just 1 liter of rainwater, then the volume of rainwater corresponds to 1% of the tank volume (water level indicator displays 1%). If due to the rain, there is 4 liters more, then in total there is 5 liters of rainwater. Thus, new water level corresponds to 5% of tank volume. I hope you agree that rainwater volume is increased by 4 liters. So, could you explain, please, why the new/added water volume divided by the tank volume is not 4%? ToMiBi (talk) 14:25, 9 February 2021 (UTC)