Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 March 1

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March 1

Category:Children of Thutmose II

Propose deleting Category:Children of Thutmose II (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: SMALLCAT ★Trekker (talk) 21:20, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Per Small_with_no_potential_for_growth: "Avoid categories that, by their very definition, will never have more than a few members, unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme". The rational clearly has exceptions which you keep ignoring. Dimadick (talk) 21:24, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- @Dimadick: you are repeatedly ignoring consensus and refusing to listen to anyone else who has been explaining this to you over and over again. If you keep creating these SMALLCATS and fictional cruft I will be bringing this to ANI.★Trekker (talk) 21:31, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:SMALLCAT, the category might have been useful with say 10 children, but with two only the articles can easily be interlinked directly. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:39, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The subcategories of Category:People of the Eighteenth Dynasty of Egypt work well for these articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:09, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Children of Louis XIII of France

Propose deleting Category:Children of Louis XIII of France (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: SMALLCAT ★Trekker (talk) 21:20, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Per Small_with_no_potential_for_growth: "Avoid categories that, by their very definition, will never have more than a few members, unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme". The rational clearly has exceptions which you keep ignoring. Dimadick (talk) 21:24, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:SMALLCAT, the category might have been useful with say 10 children, but with two only the articles can easily be interlinked directly. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:39, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Children of Nizam al-Mulk

Propose deleting Category:Children of Nizam al-Mulk (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: SMALLCAT ★Trekker (talk) 21:18, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Per Small_with_no_potential_for_growth: "Avoid categories that, by their very definition, will never have more than a few members, unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme". The rational clearly has exceptions which you keep ignoring. Dimadick (talk) 21:24, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:SMALLCAT, the category might have been useful with say 10 children, but with two only the articles can easily be interlinked directly. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:40, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose He had various well-known children. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:02, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. There are only two entries and they and the father are all linked on each other's articles already. Not a useful category. DrKay (talk) 08:53, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Children of George VI

Propose deleting Category:Children of George VI (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: SMALLCAT ★Trekker (talk) 21:17, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Per Small_with_no_potential_for_growth: "Avoid categories that, by their very definition, will never have more than a few members, unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme". The rational clearly has exceptions which you keep ignoring. Dimadick (talk) 21:22, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:SMALLCAT, the category might have been useful with say 10 children, but with two only the articles can easily be interlinked directly. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:41, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Lists of mammals by continent

Propose merging Category:Lists of mammals by continent to Category:Lists of mammals by location

Nominator's rationale: Duplicate category trees. Need to be merged or subcategorized. —Naddruf (talk ~ contribs) 20:53, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Weak oppose, the continent category may be kept as a subcategory of the location category. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:43, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning oppose, per the rationale of Marcocapelle. BD2412 T 04:14, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- It is a duplicate and then would need to be subcategorized. —Naddruf (talk ~ contribs) 05:55, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - If kept and subcatted, its content should be removed from Category:Lists of mammals by location so then they are no longer duplicates. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:41, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose "location" is about countries and states, whose articles should be split by continent (or for states - country). Instead purge the continental items from "location" into the subject. The target is too large and needs splitting, if anything. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:25, 6 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

People from Lasithi

Propose merging Category:People from Agios Nikolaos, Crete (municipality) to Category:People from Lasithi
Propose merging Category:People from Neapoli, Crete to Category:People from Lasithi
Propose merging Category:People from Vrachasi to Category:People from Lasithi
Propose merging Category:People from Ierapetra (municipality) to Category:People from Lasithi
Propose merging Category:People from Sitia (municipality) to Category:People from Lasithi

Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, this concerns categorization by 3rd and 4th level administrative divisions of Greece, leading to a endless series of single-article or 2-article categories. The proposal is to merge to 2nd level administrative division, except cities and larger towns, in this case except Ierapetra (16,000 people), Agios Nikolaos, Crete (13,000 people) and Sitia (10,000 people). This is follow-up on this earlier nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:26, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Merge for Now with no objection to recreating later if any category can grow to 5+ direct articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:14, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

People from Lemnos

Propose merging Category:People from Atsiki to Category:People from Lemnos
Propose merging Category:People from Moudros to Category:People from Lemnos
Propose merging Category:People from Myrina, Lemnos to Category:People from Lemnos
Propose merging Category:People from Nea Koutali to Category:People from Lemnos

Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, this concerns categorization by 3rd and 4th level administrative divisions of Greece, leading to a endless series of single-article or 2-article categories. The proposal is to merge to island level. This is follow-up on this earlier nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:22, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Merge for Now with no objection to recreating later if any category can grow to 5+ direct articles. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:14, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Lemnos (regional unit)

Propose merging Category:People from Lemnos (regional unit) to Category:People from Lemnos

Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:OVERLAPCAT, Lemnos (regional unit) contains the island of Lemnos and a number of tiny islands of which only the island of Agios Efstratios is inhabited (270 people). The chance that anyone from Agios Efstratios gets an article is very small, and if it happens we may simply recreate the regional unit category. When merging, the two parent categories of Category:People from Lemnos (regional unit) should be added to Category:People from Lemnos. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:19, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Lemnos (regional unit) has three parent categories. The "pure" place categories do make the distinction between the regional unit and the island, so Category:Lemnos (regional unit) probably shouldn't be added to Category:People from Lemnos, and the other two should. --Antondimak (talk) 21:33, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for the confusion, I meant: When merging, the two parent categories of Category:People from Lemnos (regional unit) should be added to Category:People from Lemnos. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:49, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And I miswrote. I meant to write "Category:People from Lemnos (regional unit)] has three parent categories". --Antondimak (talk) 23:11, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Merge This hollow layer does not aid navigation. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:15, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Children of Morgan le Fay

Propose deleting Category:Children of Morgan le Fay (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Morgan le Fay is a fictional character. Per the same reasoning as why Category:Children of Uther Pendragon was deleted so should this. ★Trekker (talk) 16:07, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Part of a category tree on Category:Children by mythological figure. Dimadick (talk) 16:17, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- @Dimadick: how many times does it need to be explained to you that that is not an acceptable reasoning? You created this category in 2021 despite many times over being told that stuff like this is not ok. This is honestly starting to look disruptive to me.★Trekker (talk) 21:14, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Looked at the first entry, from which I quote: "in this story, he is said to be the child of Morgan le Fay and Julius Caesar." Yet, somehow he is not categorized in Category:Children of Julius Caesar. There's a reason for that: he's not a child of Julius Caesar. He's a fictional character. Fictional characters should not be categorized like this. Put them in Category:King Arthur's family or Category:Arthurian characters. DrKay (talk) 16:29, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:SMALLCAT, the category might have been useful with say 10 children, but with three only the articles can easily be interlinked directly. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:53, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment And where do you see them interlinked? Dimadick (talk) 21:17, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - Not currently yet, but in this case it is more useful to create direct links instead of a category. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:38, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Contents

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) JsfasdF252 (talk) 19:43, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Contents to Category:Wikipedia contents

Nominator's rationale: Would this help with SEO? JsfasdF252 (talk) 14:39, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Apparently this one has been withdrawn by nominator. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:26, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Murdered royalty of Macedonia (ancient kingdom)

Propose renaming Category:Murdered royalty of Macedonia (ancient kingdom) to Category:Murdered royalty of Macedon

Nominator's rationale: As per the previous nomination this should be Macedon, not the modern Macedonia. Looks like a bunch of incorrect speedy renames about 5 years ago. Pipsally (talk) 14:30, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The category matches the main article Macedonia (ancient kingdom). Dimadick (talk) 16:20, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Dimadick, in addition the article title is Macedonia (ancient kingdom). Marcocapelle (talk) 17:59, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Ancient Macedonia is also called "Macedonia" in English, not just "Macedon". It doesn't imply a closer relation to modern Macedonia. --Antondimak (talk) 23:16, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Per WP:C2D. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:06, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Dimadick. Matches with Macedonia (ancient kingdom). Abhishek0831996 (talk) 08:54, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Executed royalty of Macedonia (ancient kingdom)

Propose renaming Category:Executed royalty of Macedonia (ancient kingdom) to Category:Executed royalty of Macedon

Nominator's rationale: The ancient kingdom was Macedon, not Macedonia, which is the modern state in the same area. Pipsally (talk) 14:01, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose The category matches the main article Macedonia (ancient kingdom). Dimadick (talk) 16:20, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Dimadick, in addition the article title is Macedonia (ancient kingdom). Marcocapelle (talk) 18:00, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Dimadick, in addition the article title is Macedonia (ancient kingdom). Marcocapelle (talk) 18:00, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Why are you voting twice? Dimadick (talk) 21:28, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Given the identical timestamp, it looks like just a past error. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:05, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:C2C. - RevelationDirect (talk) 01:05, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Dimadick. Matches with Macedonia (ancient kingdom). Abhishek0831996 (talk) 08:55, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Archbishops of Nigeria

Propose renaming Category:Archbishops of Nigeria to Category:Primates of All Nigeria

Nominator's rationale: There are 14 (Anglican) Archbishops in the Church of Nigeria, one of whom has the title 'Primate of All Nigeria'. The present title is ambiguous and the category is collecting Archbishops who are in Nigeria (but not 'of'). There are also 9 Catholic Archbishops in Nigeria, not to mention Maronite Catholic Eparchy of the Annunciation, with an exarch. (Eg Musa Filibus is an Archbishop of the Lutheran Church of Christ in Nigeria.) There have been 4 Primates of All Nigeria so far. Oculi (talk) 13:12, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment See also recent decision Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 February 20#Category:Primates of the Anglican Church of Ireland. Laurel Lodged (talk) 14:28, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Alt ~~Category:Church of Nigeria archbishops by archdiocese in Nigeria~~ per above precedent and my own nomination for Ireland below. Laurel Lodged (talk) 14:32, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- There is already Category:Anglican archbishops in Nigeria. No-one has the title 'Primate of the Anglican Church of Ireland'. Also the Church of Nigeria uses 'Province', not archdiocese. Oculi (talk) 15:11, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - Looking at the website of the Church of Nigeria, the styles and titles are quite confused. Primate is used, as is Metropolitan and Archbishop. Both Province and Diocese seem to be in use. There seems to have been a recent reorganisation there. For categorical purposes, if they mean the same thing as in other parts of the Anglican Communion, is the local nomenclature significant? Laurel Lodged (talk) 15:58, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    - There are 14 provinces, each with an Archbishop. Each province is divided into dioceses, each diocese with a bishop. One of the bishops is Archbishop of his province, one of the Archbishops is 'Primate of All Nigeria'. See eg [[1]]; Henry Chukwudum Ndukuba appears to be Bishop of Gombe, Archbishop of Jos and 'Primate of All Nigeria'. Or, judging from the article Henry Chukwudum Ndukuba, it may be that the Primate steps down as Archbishop and becomes 'Bishop of Abuja'. Oculi (talk) 16:32, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
ALT 2 The parent Category:Primates in the Anglican Communion has a confused lot of titles: primate, primus, archbishop. Insofar as there is a clear categorical structure, it's probably "Primate of the Church of Foo". So how about Category:Primates of the Church of Nigeria? Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:19, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Perfectly OK. Oculi (talk) 16:30, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Support Alt-2, consistent with how these primates are referred to in the articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:32, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Anglican archbishops by diocese in Ireland

Propose renaming Category:Anglican archbishops by diocese in Ireland to Category:Church of Ireland archbishops by archdiocese in Ireland

Nominator's rationale: In Protestantism in Ireland, only the Church of Ireland has archbishops. So the adjective "Anglican" is redundant and the denomination " Church of Ireland" more precise. Also they are archdioceses, not dioceses. Follows recent CFD in the Roman Catholic Church for archbishops. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:01, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Alt rename - Category:Anglican archbishops by province in Ireland per Category:Anglican archbishops by province. And Church_of_Ireland#Structure uses 'province'. It seems simpler just to conform with the convention in the tree. (The Catholic Church uses Archdiocese: eg Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Besançon.) Oculi (talk) 15:53, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note "The Anglican Archbishop of Armagh is the ecclesiastical head of the Church of Ireland, bearing the title Primate of All Ireland, the metropolitan of the Province of Armagh and the diocesan bishop of the Diocese of Armagh." Laurel Lodged (talk) 16:22, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support "province", per common language within the denomination and consistent within the category tree. I am neutral between "Anglican" and "Church of Ireland". Marcocapelle (talk) 20:38, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Would support ALT 2 of Category:Church of Ireland archbishops by province in Ireland which could still be a child of Category:Anglican archbishops by province. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:18, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People convicted of speeding

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete. Fences&Windows 18:59, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:People convicted of speeding (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: While it is true that every article in this category mentions a speeding conviction, I think this characteristic is common enough to be essentially trivial. It certainly is not defining for those so categorized. And the same category was deleted before, in 2018. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 01:27, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy delete per WP:G4. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:54, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete (and speedy, ho ho) non-defining. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 09:19, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Delete WP:G4. This isn't remotely defining. - RevelationDirect (talk) 12:03, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy delete per G4. This is so common and trivial that it isn't worth noting at all. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 21:36, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recipients of the Saxe-Ernestine House Order

Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Recipients of the Saxe-Ernestine House Order

Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Grand Masters of the Saxe-Ernestine House Order
Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Grand Crosses of the Saxe-Ernestine House Order
Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Commanders of the Saxe-Ernestine House Order‎

Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Commanders 1st class of the Saxe-Ernestine House Order‎
Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Commanders 2nd class of the Saxe-Ernestine House Order

Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Knights of the Saxe-Ernestine House Order

Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Knights 1st Class of the Saxe-Ernestine House Order

Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD, WP:PERFCAT, WP:OVERLAPCAT)

When foreign royalty and other important guests visited any of the various Saxon/Ernestine duchies or vice versa, the Saxe-Ernestine House Order was given out as souvenir. Alexander II of Russia, Luitpold of Bavaria, and Abbas II of Egypt are not remotely defined by this award and list it with other honours. Relations between the inter-married royal houses of Europe was likely also a factor.

The award was also automatically given to local members of the fractured ruling family, House of Wettin, who are already somewhere under the equally fractured Category:House of Wettin tree. There wasn't a list so I created a collapsible one at the bottom of the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:05, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Background In the past, we've deleted dozens of similar categories for high ranking visitors and those nominations are listed right here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:05, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:55, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Recipients of the Order of Francisco de Miranda

Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:Recipients of the Order of Francisco de Miranda

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)

The Order of Francisco de Miranda is a Venezuelan award that has been given out to a wide variety of domestic recipients including business leader Martín Marciales Moncada, musician José Antonio Abreu, agricultural engineer Eduardo Mendoza Goiticoa, and sculptor Harry Abend. The foreign recipients have also been diverse and include a Japanese auto executive, a Polish Nobel Peace Prize laureate, a ruling Emir from Qatar, and a visiting Soviet cellist. The one thing these articles all have in common is they generally mention the award only in passing and the there is no common thread here to aid navigation. All the category contents are now listified right here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:05, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:56, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]