User talk:Paul Siebert

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Welcome! Hello, Paul Siebert, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Arnoutf (talk) 20:49, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions alert

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in Eastern Europe or the Balkans. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

Your feedback is requested at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ukraine on a "History and geography" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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can you Help? This page needs max protection The Axis powers page

Stalin, like all Russians, hated Poles so the first goal of the Axis Powers was to subjudugate the Polish nation and crush the Catholic Church.https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Axis_powers&diff=1002901400&oldid=1002901106 https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Axis_powers&diff=1002902689&oldid=1002902527 Stalin engineered the Holocaust in which millions of Polish citizens were genocided. https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Axis_powers&diff=1002901647&oldid=1002901400 70.54.168.41 (talk) 15:46, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

We all should obey some Wikipedia rules, which require us to follow what majority of reliable sources say on that subject. To do that, it is not sufficient just to drop a link to some Wikipedia page (Wikipedia is not a source for us), instead, you should do a neutral search for information on that subject.

In addition, such claims as "all Russians hated Poles" is inappropriate (and factually incorrect). Similarly, we cannot say "all Germans hated Jews". Such statements are factually incorrect, and I doubt they are allowed at Wikipedia pages.

In any event, I think you should read more (at least take a look at our discussion with Piotrus) before we will continue.--Paul Siebert (talk) 16:12, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Timing of our posts

I noticed that you did not wait for KIENGIR's 11th entry before posting a 12th, so I responded with a 12th as well, but we should not get too far ahead of him. AmateurEditor (talk) 01:17, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

You are right. Sorry.--Paul Siebert (talk) 01:24, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

Your feedback is requested at Talk:Axis powers on a "History and geography" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Romanizing historical Ukrainian

I think we discussed this question in the past. I have since found a source with romanization for Old, Middle, and Modern Ukrainian (Shevelov 1979:21), and updated the “international” romanization table at romanization of Ukrainian. Cheers. —Michael Z. 00:07, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll take a look.--Paul Siebert (talk) 04:35, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Your opinion

Hi Paul Siebert, I am writing to you because I have read your opinion on my AE request about the user "My very best wishes".[1] I worked for about 6 years on the Italian Wikipedia, I mainly deal with Eastern European topics. On the English Wikipedia I made few edits, because, unfortunately, I don't speak English very well, and I can only write short sentences, otherwise I would force other editors to correct my grammar, consequently I also know little about the community (I'm starting to know some admins and some users these days) and all the internal democratic mechanisms (such as requests AE or RFCs).

I am writing to you because I really need a third party opinion, because what is happening to me on the issues indicated in the AE request has never happened to me before. On the Italian Wikipedia it would have been impossible to remove dozen controversial contents in the same article, full of reliable sources, for "Undue weight". It could have happened on one piece of content, or maybe two, but all those removals by a single user would have quickly attracted an administrator to block the operation. Such behavior would be readily recognized as suspicious.

Perhaps in the Italian Wikipedia we give too much importance to controversial issues compared to the English one? For example, the user writes: "his views on various political events that had happen many years ago are unimportant". Is such an answer acceptable? Is that what it says in the BLP rules? In the BLP rules[2] I also read: "Criticism and praise should be included if they can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, so long as the material is presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a disinterested tone."
Yet, for the first time in 6 years, despite having multiple reliable sources, which support a certain thing, while reporting its content without adding a single word to the RS, I am continually blocked. I have the impression of being made fun of, practically I am unable to enter new content with accusations to which, seriously, I do not know what to answer. What is the answer to all "Undue weight" even for pretty serious facts? I can only answer that for me they are not considered "Undue weight", but at this point how is it resolved? Does this user want to push me to do an RFC for each line of text I want to include on Wikipedia? I find myself in the absurd situation in which I cannot even report what I find written in the RS, because it is removed for "wrong narrative".

Excuse me if I ask you this question but, also seeing that you have more than 20k edits, maybe you have the experience in such disputies to be able to give me advice. Sometimes seriously, I feel like I've entered a parallel dimension here on the English Wikipedia, and I do not understand if it is simply me who am breaking some rules (perhaps due to problems of fully understanding English)--Mhorg (talk) 22:20, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't think you are doing anything wrong. You should keep in mind that English Wikipedia is huge, and different topics are being edited by different people. Accordingly, topic-specific behavioural standards may differ significantly. I myself faced similar problems: when I started editing some Christianity related topic, that immediately led to a conflict, despite the fact that I did exactly what I am doing in other history related topics, where my contributions are seen quite positively by majority of users. Therefore, it would be more correct to conclude that the problem is with the users who opposed you. One of them has already been topic banned, and the appeal was unsuccessful. With regard to another one, that is a complicated case, and Ii am going to address to the ArbCom to resolve the situation with his problematic behaviour.

I see some problems with you edits, although they by no means violate our policy. We must be extremely careful when we write about Navalny, because our non-professionalism may have a negative impact on his reputation and make him more vulnerable (taking into account his current situation, that may be, literally, lethal). Therefore, a correct approach would be either to write highly professionally or not to write at all. In connection to that, any references to his nationalism and xenophobic statements should be placed into a proper context. Thus, it would be necessary to make it clear that Navalny's political views are changing with time, and to discriminate his statements made by him in the past from his current views. Therefore, a question of due weight and a question of a proper context should be discussed on a talk page, and only after some consensus is achieved can we add something to the article space. That is my opinion, and I cannot rule out a possibility that some information reverted by MVBW is really marginally relevant. Just think about that.

By having said that I do not mean that the inability to reach consensus in those discussion was your fault.

I am trying to avoid editing the articles that describe recent events, so I am not sure I myself will ever edit Navalny related articles. I am just sharing my thoughts with you.--Paul Siebert (talk) 00:31, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

What would be the difference between ArbCom and an AE request, if I may ask you?
Speaking of Navalny, I understand your point of view, but the controversial parts are practically squeezed to the bottom of the article and occupy a very marginal part of the text. I think it is impossible to say that the article is unbalanced (towards the negative, indeed! If anything it is towards the positive). Plus, I don't think it's our role to save or condemn Navalny. The facts remain facts, what he has accomplished for 7 years of pro-nationalist political views cannot be removed "because he has changed". If anything, it can be specified that over time his political vision has changed (but this is not already done by the article, where simply over the years the topics he deals are changed?)
Specifically, would you advise me to open RFCs? is it correct to open several of them? Does each RFC last a long time or do they usually resolve quickly? Because really, I'm thinking of removing the RSS Feed plugin, every time I see a notification I get stressed.
Thank you for your opinion.--Mhorg (talk) 08:49, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

All information is on the ArbCom page. Arbitrators analyze each case in details, and their decision is final. However, they accept a case only if sufficient evidences have been presented to demonstrate that the case does deserve their attention, and that all other means to resolve the conflict proved to be unsuccessful.

It is always good to open RFC if you have a disagreement that cannot be resolved at a talk page.

I am not sure I understand what do you mean under the "RSS Feed plugin", but, in general, it is normal to be stressed when you edit such a hot area as EE related topics. Welcome to English Wikipedia :) That is how we are working here :)--Paul Siebert (talk) 15:18, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind and thorough answers. As for the wikihounding cases I reported, I asked Swarm what he thought of them[3], but he hasn't answered yet. I am not sure if I am giving the "proper weight" to this stuff, but the user has also begun to meddle in discussions on my tp with other users.[4] It's normal? I am exaggerating?--Mhorg (talk) 17:27, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Again, if I were an uninvolved admin, I would have come to the same conclusion as Swarm, and that is not because there is no DE or wikihounding, but because your evidences are not too convincing. I could give you some advises, but I am pretty sure my talk page is being carefully watched by the same user.

Regarding meddling, you may let this user know their interference is not welcome (if that is your talk page), otherwise that is acceptable (unless you have some strong evidences you were not interested to know their opinion on that matter.--Paul Siebert (talk) 20:55, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Anyway, if you have some additional information about questionable behaviour of that user, you may post it here. I'll take a look.--Paul Siebert (talk) 21:23, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

About the Following, also an admin noticed the behaviour of the user.[5] Moreover, I find this other fact really unfair: the user tries to convince (with success) an administrator that a user who was backing him in the discussion was not a sockpuppet[6] (actually it was legitimate to have high suspicions), and at the same time intervenes to ban another user accused sockpuppetry[7] who was opposing him in the discussion. The other day it turns out that the user he was defending was really a vandalizer\sockpuppet.[8] Could it all be a coincidence? To me it all seems part of a plan to carry on their own personal POV-pushing battle on Wikipedia. If this is his way of acting and planning, I dare not imagine what kind of actions he has done on the whole encyclopedia. I have neither the knowledge nor the time to carry out an investigation of this type. I don't mean to have certainties, but strong doubts are legitimate at this point. (Could you please ping me when you answer me?)--Mhorg (talk) 08:16, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

This too can be interesting: speaking of what I call "whitewashing operations", a user came to write me on the talk page about what the user did on the article of a website linked with the Ukrainian secret services.[9]--Mhorg (talk) 09:20, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

About the AE request: closed with no action.[10]--Mhorg (talk) 12:01, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Mhorg (pinging per your request), I am not surprised that your AE report was declined. I expected that. The user we are talking about is polite and cautious, and all what he is doing looks like good faith mistakes. At least, that is what an average admin usually concludes from each separate case. Moreover, I myself thought the activity of that user was directed primarily against me, whereas other users have no problems with him. However, your case demonstrates that that the problem is more serious than I thought before. As I already explained, it would be naive to expect the admins at AE will take actions against that user: they are just amateurs who can barely devote more than 30 minutes to read all diffs and explanations. Remember, they know nothing about the subject of the dispute, but they see that user behaves politely and has a very long and clean history.

That is why arbitration is the only option. To understand how it works, try to analyse several recent cases, and read WP:EEML. That will give you a clue which reports are usually accepted by the arbitrators, and which are rejected. That work may require some time, but it is still less time consuming than long and fruitless disputes with that user. And, keep in mind that your opponent has a habit to declare he is retired/semi-retire/stopped editing, but he may change his mind at any moment.

Your information about sockpuppets is interesting. As you probably know, the same user accused me of socpuppetry and said I was "defending" some sock (although I just asked who was the master of that sock). Taking into account that the very same user who accused others of "defending" a sock, is himself a defender of a sock who was supporting his own POV, all of that looks especially bad. Keep in mind, however, that that user may edit his own old statements (similar top what he did in the above described case) to conceal his questionable statements, the evidences should be presented in a form of original diffs.

I am thinking about filing the Arbitration request, and if you want, you may add yourself as a party). Each party has 500 words to present their evidences. These evidences must contain the most striking examples of questionable misbehaviour, and they are needed just to convince ArbCom to accept the case. If you want to do that, try to think about the most convincing evidences that you will present (no need to discuss it with me). If you have no time or desire to participate in that process, that is ok. Frankly, I myself am not ready to do it right now, I am somewhat busy in RL, and I need more time to collect evidences. --Paul Siebert (talk) 20:26, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Mostly random thought

Are you aware of the fact that book reviews published in peer-reviewed journals are usually themselves not subject to any peer review? They are only read by one person, the journal book review editor (if the journal has such a position, general editor otherwise) who makes the call whether to accept the review or not. While it may be a form a peer review, it is not blind, and it involves only one person rather than the usual 3+ reviews a normal article is subject too. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:40, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

I am fully aware of the peer-reviewing process (both as an author and as a reviewer). If your question was a response to my ARCA post, please, keep in mind that the reviews are used not as RS to write something in the article space, but as a criterion for reliability of some concrete book.

You should also keep in mind that a random person can hardly write (and publish) are review: usually editors invite experts for that. Therefore, I do not understand your concern. A review written by some invited expert is obviously much more trustworthy than an article in any mainstream newspaper of a popular book.--Paul Siebert (talk) 03:54, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Paul Siebert, A. Book reviews are often used for various claims about the general subject, not just the book itself. If this is not a good practice, this should be mentioned somewhere. B. As an author of some book reviews, I can attest to the fact that many reliable outlets are open to book reviews being sent without an invitation. This varies from outlet to outlet. For example, you cite the review in Israel Journal of Foreign Affairs. Nothing I see on their instructions for authors suggests that book reviews are 'by invitation only'. The journal seems very obscure (please do tell me why it is reliable outside of being associated with T&F? It almost certainly is not notable in light of WP:NJOURNAL). C. On a final note, you wrote at the mentioned request that "the review contains serious criticism of factual accuracy of The Volunteer". I disagree. Flemming is critical of the book's title which he writes "endorses the dominant narrative of the Pilecki myth". Ok, so he is critical of the claim that Pilecki's volunteered (and for what it is worth, I concur that this word is not the best here, Pilecki likely "was volunteered" rather than "volunteered"). Other than that, he nitpicks at few minor issues and concludes that "Despite the problems outlined above, the book has several merits. It is written in accessible prose and includes numerous pictures and informative maps. It has many references (though some are imprecise and unclear), and provides some additional insight into courier operations and Pilecki’s peacetime life". This is hardly a "serious criticism". And where does Flemming criticize the book's "factual accuracy"? You'd be much better reading the review by Cyra, who's an expert on Pilecki's life, does find a few minor errors in the book, but concludes that "It is very difficult to find any factual errors in the masterfully written biography." Given that Cyra wrote many articles and books on Pilecki, I think he is a much better authority to rely on than Flemming. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:30, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Cyra is also noted in academic literature as promoting the myth here. One couldn't think of a more inaccurate representation of Fleming, who writes:

1. Beginning: "In The Volunteer, journalist Jack Fairweather presents some, but not all, of the features of the Pilecki myth to English-speaking readers."
2. "Fairweather’s problematic title signals the main weakness of the book, as does its first sentence, which endorses the dominant narrative of the Pilecki myth: “Witold Pilecki volunteered to be imprisoned in Auschwitz.” This assertion cannot be sustained."
3. "The second feature of the Pilecki myth that drives Fairweather’s narrative is that Pilecki was especially preoccupied with reporting on the fate of Jews in Auschwitz. In reality, Pilecki’s “mission” in the camp was to sustain morale, provide extra food and clothing to members of his organization, prepare to take over the camp..."
4. "The third feature of the myth relating to Pilecki—that his story was exclusively suppressed by the Communist authorities—is placed under some pressure in Fairweather’s account..."
5. Conclusion: " It is unfortunate that in addition to having an inaccurate, sensationalist title, the book is framed as a “new chapter in the history of the mass murder of the Jews and an account of why someone might risk everything to help his fellow man.” This has resulted in a hagiographic narrative in an Anglo–American idiom."

Far from just the title.--Bob not snob (talk) 11:03, 14 March 2021 (UTC)