Talk:Washington and Lee University

General Cleanup

I've completely cited every single missing fact, except the one about the two black students who followed the first. Can someone please hunt that down and cite it?

Edit: there are more hanging sources, i'll try to correct them as i can.

Eckus (talk) 17:35, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Done a great job. The original problem was that the article "got long" before anyone started using footnotes at all. If you run across one that is of general use, please add. It can be named and used repetitively on other (general) statements. Even with the one missing citation supplied, the article would still woefully weak on references. Thanks. Student7 (talk) 00:49, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Kappa Alpha or Kappa Alpha Order?

I'm pretty confident that there is some confusion.

There are 2 fraternities in America with the name "Kappa Alpha." Here are the two websites I can give you.

http://www.kappaalphaorder.org/undergraduate/chapters/default.asp

http://www.ka.org/KA-chapters.html

Note that W&L is listed as the Alpha Chapter for Kappa Alpha Order and Kappa Alpha doesn't even have a chapter at W&L. As such, I'm pretty confident that the website you gave, is technically incorrect.

http://campuslife.wlu.edu/residential_life/upperclasshousing.html#Fraternity%20Houses

It may be called colloquially "Kappa Alpha," but that points to a different Wikipedia article. You will notice that Kappa Alpha does not point to Kappa Alpha Order. Further, the Alpha Chapter of Kappa Alpha is not Washington and Lee.

For this reason, I am reverting to previous version.

I see

Well, thank you for the links :) BMWman 01:47, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)

Non Incautus Futuri

Non incautus futuri has an article of its own. I don't think that it should. I propose that it be merged into this article. --AaronS 04:36, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree. There's no point for a separate article.--thequackdaddy 01:36, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Crime Stats

There isn't really a page or reference I can find that compares various schools' crime statistics, but if you take a quick look at almost any school's crime report, nearly any school you pick will have higher crime rates, even after adjusting for student population.

For instance, see these statistics for campuses in similar settings:

Amherst- http://www.amherst.edu/~campuspolice/clery/clerycrimestats.html

Swarthmore- http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/publicsafety/pdfs/statistics.pdf

UVA- http://www.virginia.edu/uvapolice/casisUVA1.htm

Even Notre Dame- http://www.nd.edu/~ndspd/chart04.pdf

And EVEN Liberty University- http://www.liberty.edu/studentaffairs/deanofmen/index.cfm?PID=7309

These are all in relatively rural areas (and ND and Liberty are supposed to have particularly strict moral codes). Needless to say, schools in urban areas tend to have much more crime even after adjusting for population. I will remove the fact tag again tomorrow if I hear no objection here. KrazyCaley 19:46, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but that's original research. In order to show what you wish you would have to:

1. Define "crimes like theft"
2. Find a representative sample of Universities, than justify it as representative.
3. Find out their attendance during 2004.
4. Do the division.
5. Specify "much lower".

That's just too much original work. If you can find something, even a press release from W&L, that says what you want it to say, you can cite that and put it up. If I hear no objection here, I will remove the sentence in question tomorrow. Jim Apple 20:34, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Point well-taken. I altered the language so that W&L's campus security page directly supports the new sentence. KrazyCaley 23:20, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but the security department page pointed to does not mention other schools, as far as I can see. Jim Apple 00:52, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

If it's any help--here's a pretty good schools crime stats page, maintained by the FBI: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_09.html#va Sadly, however, it doesn't list W&L, but you may be able to use it to compare similar schools.

Explanation of Selection of Robert E. Lee

The page needs to explain whether Lee is controversial on campus (maybe he's not) and why the school did not find it incongruous to add his name to that of Washington (maybe it did). The statement that "After the American Civil War, General Robert E. Lee turned down several financially tantalizing offers of employment that would merely have traded on his name" leaves a lot unsaid, such as how the school dealt with hiring a president who had been indicted on charges of treason or, for that matter, the fact that Lee had led an armed insurrection against the United States of America despite having served honorably as an officer in the U.S. Army. Lee seems to reversed course after the war to seek "reconciliation" and promote "honor," but stating that he did these things fails to handle his defining characteristic: he was the leader of the Confederate forces in the Civil War. Wakonda 20:14, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I have the feeling this topic didn't make it in the article because Lee really isn't controversal on campus (not that I've noticed attending here anyway. I'm in my third year at the school of law). It's in Lee's home state, so I don't think the Virginia school was too worried about accepting a man as president who had fought on their own side during the war (the North had ransacked the buildings during the war, supposedly saving the structures only because of the statute of "Old George," as we call it, on Washington Hall). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.171.72.48 (talk) 02:29, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

Agreed - I'm a first year undergrad and I've heard abosolutely nothing about Lee being controversial.nlyons162 01:23, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

The key point is that W&L is located in a rural section of Virginia that had strong pro-Confederacy sentiments. He remains highly-regarded throughout the southern United States. Racepacket (talk) 17:04, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Light Horse Harry Lee NOT Declaration Signer

Lighthorse Harry Lee was a Revolutionary War Hero, but he was NOT a signer of the Declaration of Independence. In fact Lighthorse Harry in his later years was considered a swindler, landed in debtors prison, then fled to the Caribbean.

The Lee relations who were DoI signers are the brothers Francis Lightfoot Lee and Richard Henry Lee. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pentagonbrat (talk • contribs) 20:26, 10 April 2007 (UTC).

Fair use rationale for Image:Farewell Young Lover.jpg

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BetacommandBot 05:18, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Farewell my-Young lover.jpg

Image:Farewell my-Young lover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:11, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

link to bigsight.org alumni page

I am a W&L alum and added the link to http://bigsight.org/school/wlu because it has the most current information on recent alumni and students. Over 100 people are on this and each profile contains full information. My adding this link was not spam - it is a valuable resource for users and should be maintained. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clearmornings (talk • contribs) 06:50, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia's policy on external links and what Wikipedia is not. The information on that website is not encyclopedic and is not relevant to the content of the article, and thus there is no need to include it. Esrever ^(klaT) 07:25, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Farewell young lover 2.jpg

Image:Farewell young lover 2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:08, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

new alum

I found the William McClung article in desperate need of work. He is an early graduate of W&L, so I thought someone familiar with this topic would want to take a look at it. Here's a good source I found.--Jwilkinsen Jr (talk) 22:14, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

US News Rankings

The article misquotes the US News rankings. Washington & Lee's undergraduate program is ranked #14 amongst Liberal Arts Colleges, not amongst National Universities. US News —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.103.47.190 (talk) 15:57, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I changed "universities" to "colleges." Will that do the trick? Student7 (talk) 18:29, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

2010 Reorganization

I have reorganized the article to conform to the Wikiproject University guidelines and have expanded the Administration, Research and Honor Code sections. Please continue to work on the article. If the footnotes were cleaned up, it could easily gain Good Article recognition. Racepacket (talk) 17:02, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

External links modified

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Meriwether Lewis

You are free to hold whatever opinions that you like about Meriwether Lewis. Your personal opinions do not change that the book cited says "In 1793, Lewis graduated from Liberty Hall (now Washington and Lee University) and joined the Virginia militia." Abel (talk) 18:35, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

References

Source

How does an opinion writer for The Atlantic - ADAM SERWER - qualify as an disinterested, authoritative reference source?

Reference 17 -"The Myth of Kindly General Lee". theatlantic.com. Retrieved 2017-06-04. Lee was as indifferent to crimes of violence towards blacks carried out by his students as he was when they was carried out by his soldiers."

Snit333 (talk) 01:48, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Questionable Source in Lee Years

It seems like the majority of the Lee Year section is reliant on the dsuka.com source from this (archived) page Firstly, the source was cited as "Home – Jual Tiket Pesawat Murah – Rajawali Travel," which I have corrected to "Robert E. Lee" in accordance with the page's title. More importantly, as far as I can tell, dkusa.com doesn't rise to the standard of a reliable source. It seems to be a defunct page for the Kappa Alpha Order, a fraternity that claims it "was born under the white light of [Lee's] noble life" and considers him a "spiritual founder." It has no named author, with the writer listed as "Delta Beta," so it's difficult to establish whether the author qualifies as an authoritative source, and the webpage seems unlikely to be considered a 'published materials with a reliable publication process.' The article is openly laudatory of Lee, if not cloying, as he is an important figure to KAO's history, and the claims it makes are unsourced. As such it seems like it should at the very least be treated as a Biased Source, whereas the current article presents its claims without any qualification. As such, it strikes me as WP:SPS, and to whatever extent it may be considered WP:ABOUTSELF it seems to be overly self-serving.

The Lee Years section also seems to have issues with tone and NPOV throughout, phrases such as "it is hardly surprising that he welcomed the challenge" seem unnecessary. The claim in paragraph 2 that Lee's incorporation of new fields in the liberal arts curriculum is also uncited, the only related source, footnote 17, only establishes that the journalism degree was a new concept. The third paragraph is also completely uncited (the above footnote does mention "To help rebuild a shattered South" as a motive for some of the school's actions, but doesn't seem to support claims about admissions.) There's already a discussion about the reliability of the Atlantic article as a source for claims about Lee's racist behavior as president that doesn't seem to have been resolved.

In all, the section seems to have issues that I think require substantial revision. However, I'm a brand new editor, and this is a slightly contentious topic given current events and I'm hesitant to unilaterally attempt to correct this. Still, I wanted to raise the issue, and if people think it would be a good idea I'd be happy to attempt to find more reliable sources and revise.

Foridin (talk) 01:11, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

I agree. I removed the bit about "hardly surprising". I also put a refimprove flag on the section. I hope other editors weigh in. Attic Salt (talk) 17:06, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

@Foridin: You appear to have the qualifications to edit further. You're 100% in the right to point that citation out as inadequate. If we're honest, it was probably written by an undergrad student. I too find the "Lee Year's" section in need of some serious copyediting. The topic is wrapped in with the Lost Cause and that section doesn't appear to have a single academic source. I'll fix that in the coming days. Muttnick (talk) 01:33, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Addition to categories "American slave owners" and "American slave traders"

On March 18 I added the categories "American slave owners" and "American slave traders," which were reverted quickly, described as "incorrect," "inaccurate," "disruptive" and possibly "vandalism." These are good faith edits which are true, previously sourced in the article, correct, accurate, widely known and certainly not intended to be disruptive, vandalistic or controversial. Here is the citation to the facts, which was previously cited in the article, long before I ever added the categories:

Anyone have any thoughts? I'm attempting to establish a consensus about this so the categories can be re-added. Other pages in these categories are of people and institutions which later stopped slave-trading or slave-owning, as this educational institution has, through various actions/events (manumission, selling all their slaves, slavery abolition). Why would these categories not apply to educational institutions which were American slave owners and slave traders? How can I best go about re-adding them, as they are true, sourced in the article, correct, accurate and widely known? JBDouglas (talk) 01:14, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Both of those categories appear to be intended for individual people, not institutions. Have you discussed whether or not it's appropriate to add institutions to those categories? Is there perhaps a better category or a need for a new one specifically for colleges and universities? ElKevbo (talk) 01:27, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Both categories predominantly list individual people, but also institutions, indicating the intent to include them. But perhaps a new one might be useful or needed for colleges and universities which historically owned or traded slaves. I don't know if that's necessarily the case. JBDouglas (talk) 02:08, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

I didn't see any institutions in those categories but I apparently just missed them. Regardless, I do think that a new category - perhaps several - warrants serious consideration. It would certainly be nice to be able to link directly to such a category (or list article) from Slavery at American colleges and universities. ElKevbo (talk) 03:05, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

References