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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Tcr25 (talk | contribs) at 00:14, 9 July 2021 (→Discussion: extend comment). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

This is a sandbox/working group page for the rewrite of the section of the article covering Étienne de Perier's time as governor.

(work in progress)

Governor of French Louisiana (1726–1733)

In August 1726, after then governor of French Louisiana Pierre Dugué de Boisbriant was recalled to France,[1] Perier was appointed commandant general of the territory, overseeing military matters and relations with the Native Americans.[2] He arrived in New Orleans in October 1726[3] and established his home at 613 Royal Street.[4]

Despite Perier's lack of experience in colonial administration, the Company of the Indies felt they had a long-time employee who would be a pliant administrator focused on the Company’s goals.[5] To ensure this, the Company granted him an annual salary of 10,000 French livres,[6][a] 10 acres (4.0 hectares) of riverfront land, and eight enslaved people a year so long as he remained in office.[7] He sold the land, which is in the modern McDonoghville neighborhood, in 1737.[8]

The Company directed Perier to increase the profitability of the colony, enforce discipline and loyalty, and keep the English from entering the territory. [9] He was specifically tasked with completing improvements to secure the health and safety of New Orleans, as well as to visit the Company settlement in Natchez.[10] Perier also sought to diffuse some of the partisan, religious, and familial cliques that had made running the colony difficult for his predecessors.[11] In this he had some initial successes, particularly in managing the dispute between Jesuit and Capuchin missionaries.[12]

Perier launched a large public works effort, overseeing the construction of the first levees on the Mississippi,[13] cleared forests and brush from the land between the city and Lake Pontchartrain,[13] and dug a canal from the Mississippi to connect the river to a rice mill on the king's plantation and Bayou St. John.[14] He also welcomed the Ursuline nuns to the city; his wife, Catherine, laid the cornerstone for the nun's first convent in the city.[15]

Slavery policies

Achieving these public works required the labor of enslaved Africans. The Company had a monopoly on the slave trade and oversaw the importation of more captured Africans to Louisiana when it controlled the colony than at any other point in the 18th century.[16] With this steady supply of new captives, Perier tended to put enslaved people to work on public projects until they were auctioned off to local slavehoders.[17] To increase the available workforce, Perier began conscripting enslaved people for 30 days at a time. In most cases, they were conscripted when the Company first brought them to Louisiana, before delivering them to their purchasers, which raised the ire of Louisiana slaveholders.[18] Perier instituted an apprenticeship program where enslaved people were loaned to craftsmen for three years to train them as brickmakers, joiners, masons, carpenters, and other skilled trades necessary to the growth and development of the colony.[19] He also put enslaved Africans to work on Company ships, navigating the coast and rivers.[20]

At the time, both Africans and Native Americans were enslaved by French settlers. Perier was increasingly concerned about alliances among enslaved people, and he encouraged slaveholders to keep enslaved Africans apart from enslaved Native Americans for fear of the two groups forming alliances. He was particularly concerned that Native Americans who escaped from slavery would induce enslaved Africans to also escape and seek the protection of Native tribes.[21] To foster mistrust between the two groups, Perier used armed enslaved Black troops to attack neighboring Native Americans,[22] and he continued the policy of rewarding Native Americans for capturing escapees and disrupting maroon communities.[23]

Native American relations

It was in addressing relations with Native Americans in the colony where Perier had his greatest challenges. Despite having been encouraged to learn from what former Bienville had written about relations with the Native Americans[24] and recognizing the need to improve relations to forestall British advancement into the territory,[25] Perier instead broke with Bienville's policy of diplomatic engagement with neighboring tribes.[26][27] Louisiana's colonial administrators at the time tried to balance the need to maintain good relations with Native Americans with demands from settlers for more and better land;[28] however, Perier did not recognize Native American ownership of their traditional lands.[28] This was in line with French desires to colonize New France, as opposed to earlier efforts to maintain the territory as a resource for trade.[29][30]

While Perier did work to maintain positive relations with France's Choctaw and Quapaw allies, in other cases, he sought to dominate tribes unwilling to align with France's colonial ambitions. In Illinois, at the border between France's Canada and Louisiana territories, the Meskwaki (Fox tribe) in 1728 again declared war on France. Pereir, his counterpart in Canada the Marquis de Beauharnois, and the local commanders pursued a policy of complete destruction against the Meskwaki, despite the ill will it generated with other Native American tribes in the region.[31][32] This approach would be seen in Perier's response to the Natchez revolt.

Plantation ambitions

The territory of the Natchez, on bluffs above the Mississippi River, had been noted by the Company of the Indies for its agricultural potential as early as 1717,[29] and Fort Rosalie and several tobacco plantations were established there after the First Natchez War in 1716.[33] After arriving in Louisiana, and with an eye on establishing his own plantation in the area,[34] Perier sent the Sieur de Chépart (in some sources d'Etcheparre) to command Fort Rosalie and oversee trade with the Natchez.[35]

As commandant of the fort, Chépart was criticized for his tyrannical behavior toward the Natchez, his soldiers, and settlers, eventually being recalled to New Orleans to answer for his actions in 1729. Instead of relieving Chépart, Perier pardoned him and sent him back to the Natchez territory.[36] On his return, Chépart renewed his efforts to secure land for himself and Perier's plantation.[37] In November 1729, Chépart issued an order for the Natchez to begin planning for their complete removal from White Apple Village and other Natchez territory. These actions sparked the Natchez revolt.

Natchez revolt and retaliation

See also: Natchez revolt

On November 28, 1729, the Natchez Chief, the Great Sun, led his warriors into Fort Rosalie and captured the settlement, killing between 229 and 285 colonists and enslaved people and taking about 450 captives, mostly French women and enslaved people. A about a month later, the Natchez's allies, the Yazoo, made a similar attack on Fort St. Pierre.[38] Ahead of the attack, the Natchez also recruited several enslaved Africans, arguing that driving off the colonists would mean freedom for them too.[39]

In response to the Natchez revolt, Perier sought the complete destruction of the Natchez and their allies to ensure the safety of the colony.[40] He began by authorizing an attack on the unaligned Chaouacha tribe south of New Orleans by enslaved Black volunteers in December 1729,[39] rewarding the men by freeing them from slavery.[41] He also proposed attacks against other tribes along the Mississippi, regardless of their involvement in the revolt, earning a rebuke from Controller-General of Finances Philibert Orry, who described the plan as "acting against all the rules of good government and against those of humanity."[42]

In January 1730, French and allied Choctaw soldiers caught the Natchez by surprise and recovered 54 women and children and 100 enslaved people.[39] Throughout 1730, Perier sought to make examples of captured Natchez men and women, including torturing them and burning them alive in public executions.[43][44] Lacking enough troops to handle the revolt, and unwilling to rely too heavily on France's Choctaw allies, Perier sought reinforcements from France.[45]

The Natchez continued to resist the French until January 1731 when Perier and colonial soldiers, along with two battalions of marines commanded by his brother, Antoine-Alexis, successfully captured the Natchez's Grand Village. Great Sun and nearly 500 more Natchez men, women, and children were captured and shipped to Saint-Domingue where they were sold into slavery.[46] However an undetermined number of other Natchez escaped to seek refuge with (and eventual assimilation) into other tribes, including the English-allied Chickasaw and Cherokee,[47] further straining the French's already poor relationship with the Chickasaw.[48]

Aftermath and recall

In his reports on the Natchez revolt and his response, Perier suggested a conspiracy among the tribes, perhaps with British encouragement, was responsible for the revolt, to divert attention from the role Chépart and his orders played in igniting the conflict.[49] However, this story did not gain credence back in France,[48] nor in Louisiana.[50] Instead, Perier was criticized by the Company for letting his personal plans for a Natchez plantation distract him from his public responsibilities.[38] There were also concerns about his continued harsh approach towards even allied Native Americans and attempts to punish the Chickasaw for taking in Natchez refugees.[51] Although at the same time, he sought to reward some Native allies, such as the Quapaw, by expanding trading posts.[52]

In June 1731, Perier faced an attempted slave uprising, the Samba rebellion, involving enslaved Bambara peoples inspired by the Natchez revolt. As he had done with Natchez prisoners, Perier ordered torture and public executions via breaking wheel for the men and women who planned the attempted uprising.[53]

In the end, Perier was criticized for his support of Chépart and his policies towards Native Americans, which failed to provide security and stability for the colony.[54] Ultimately, the result of the revolt was a further weakening of the Company, which was still suffering from the bursting of the Mississippi Bubble in 1720. Due to its ongoing financial losses in the territory in 1731 the Company abandoned its charter and returned Louisiana to the king.[55][56][57] Despite questions about his management of the Natchez revolt, Perier remained in place as governor of the colony, although the king's advisors, particularly the Count of Maupaus, sought to replace Perier.[58]

In 1733, Perier was recalled to France to answer for his handling of the Natchez revolt, and former Louisiana governor Bienville was appointed to replace him.[58]

References

  1. ^ Sumners, Cecil L. (1998). The Governors of Mississippi. Gretna, Louisiana: Pelican Publishing. p. 12. ISBN 978-1-4556-0521-7.
  2. ^ McGuire, Jack B. (2010). "Etienne de Perier". In Cowan, Walter Greaves; McGuire, Jack B. (eds.). Louisiana Governors: Rulers, Rascals, and Reformers. Jackson, Mississippi: University Press of Mississippi. p. 25. ISBN 978-1-60473-320-4.
  3. ^ Fortier, Alcée (1904). A History of Louisiana: Early Explorers and the Domination of the French (1512-1768). Vol. 1. New York, New York: Manzi, Joyant & Co. p. 103.
  4. ^ Brown, Alan (2021). Louisiana Legends & Lore. Mount Pleasant, South Carolina: Arcadia Publishing. p. 59. ISBN 978-1-4671-4751-4.
  5. ^ Balesi, Charles John (1992). The Time of the French in the Heart of North America, 1673-1818. Chicago, Illinois: Alliance Française Chicago. p. 175. ISBN 978-1-881370-00-0. Retrieved 21 June 2021.
  6. ^ Giraud, Marcel (1991). A History of French Louisiana: The Company of the Indies, 1723–1731. Translated by Pearce, Brian. Baton Rouge, Louisiana: LSU Press. p. 54. ISBN 978-0-8071-1571-8.
  7. ^ Gayarré, Charles (1854). History of Louisiana: The French Domination. Vol. 1. New York, New York: Redfield. p. 372.
  8. ^ Swanson, Betsy (2003). Historic Jefferson Parish: From Shore to Shore. Gretna, Louisiana: Pelican Publishing. p. 110. ISBN 978-1-4556-0576-7. Retrieved 21 June 2021.
  9. ^ Haudrère 1996, pp. 87–100.
  10. ^ Gayarré 1854, pp. 372–375. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFGayarré1854 (help)
  11. ^ Giraud 1991, p. 58. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFGiraud1991 (help)
  12. ^ Giraud 1991, pp. 58, 102. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFGiraud1991 (help)
  13. ^ a b Rightor, Henry (1900). Standard History of New Orleans, Louisiana. Chicago, Illinois: The Lewis Publishing Co. p. 81.
  14. ^ Franks, Herschel A.; Yakubik, Jill-Karen (1994). Cultural Resources Survey of Four Construction Items Below New Orleans (Report). New Orleans, Louisiana: U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. p. 245.
  15. ^ Cruzat, Heloise Hulse (1919). "The Ursulines of Louisiana". Louisiana Historical Quarterly. 1 (1): 12.
  16. ^ Greenwald, Erin M. (2013). Pipe Dreams: Louisiana under the French Company of the Indies, 1717–1731. New Orleans, Louisiana: The Historic New Orleans Collection. p. 12.
  17. ^ Usner Jr., Daniel H. (1979). "From African Captivity to American Slavery: The Introduction of Black Laborers to Colonial Louisiana". Louisiana History: The Journal of the Louisiana Historical Association. 20 (1): 32. JSTOR 4231866.
  18. ^ Midlo Hall, Gwendolyn (1995). Africans in Colonial Louisiana: The Development of Afro-Creole Culture in the Eighteenth Century. Baton Rouge, Louisiana: LSU Press. p. 127. ISBN 978-0807119990.
  19. ^ Usner Jr. 1979, p. 34. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFUsner_Jr.1979 (help)
  20. ^ Greenwald 2011, p. 193.
  21. ^ Willis, William S. (July 1963). "Divide and Rule: Red, White, and Black in the Southeast". The Journal of Negro History. 48 (3): 162. JSTOR 2716338.
  22. ^ Blackbird, Leila K. (2018). Entwined Threads of Red and Black: The Hidden History of Indigenous Enslavement in Louisiana, 1699-1824 (MA). New Orleans, Louisiana: University of New Orleans. p. 47–48.
  23. ^ Usner Jr. 1979, p. 44. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFUsner_Jr.1979 (help)
  24. ^ Giraud 1991, p. 36. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFGiraud1991 (help)
  25. ^ Greenwald 2011, p. 191.
  26. ^ Saadani 2008, p. 16.
  27. ^ Phelps, Dawson A. (June 1957). "The Chickasaw, the English, and the French 1699-1744". Tennessee Historical Quarterly. 16 (2): 122–123. JSTOR 42621333.
  28. ^ a b Klein, Michael (2000). Louisiana: European Explorations and the Louisiana Purchase — A Special Presentation from the Geography and Map Division of the Library of Congress (PDF) (Report). Washington, D.C.: Library of Congress. p. 21.
  29. ^ a b Fohl, Stephen Jay (2012). The French and Indian Wars: New France's Situational Indian Policies During the Fox and Natchez Conflicts, 1701–1732 (BA). Richmond, Kentucky: Eastern Kentucky University. pp. 51–52.
  30. ^ Greenwald 2013, pp. 4, 15–16.
  31. ^ Rushforth, Brett (January 2006). "Slavery, the Fox Wars, and the Limits of Alliance". The William and Mary Quarterly. 63 (1): 215. JSTOR 3491725.
  32. ^ Cleland, Charles E. (1992). Rites of Conquest: The History and Culture of Michigan's Native Americans. Ann Arbor, Michigan: University of Michigan Press. pp. 117–118. ISBN 0-472-06447-9.
  33. ^ "Survey of Historic Sites and Buildings". Explorers and Settlers. Washington, D.C.: National Park Service. 2005.
  34. ^ Davis, Edwin Adams (1960). The Story of Louisiana. Vol. 1. New Orleans, Louisiana: J.F. Hyer Publishing Co. p. 59.
  35. ^ Blackbird 2018, p. 46. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFBlackbird2018 (help)
  36. ^ Swanton, John Reed (1911). Indian Tribes of the Lower Mississippi Valley and Adjacent Coast of the Gulf of Mexico. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office. pp. 222–223.
  37. ^ Usner Jr., Daniel H. (1998). American Indians in the Lower Mississippi Valley: Social and Economic Histories. Lincoln, Nebraska: University of Nebraska Press. p. 26. ISBN 0-8032-9563-4.
  38. ^ a b James, D. Clayton (1968). Antebellum Natchez. Baton Rouge, Louisiana: LSU Press. p. 10. ISBN 978-0-8071-1860-3.
  39. ^ a b c Usner Jr. 1979, p. 45. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFUsner_Jr.1979 (help)
  40. ^ Gayarré 1854, p. 443. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFGayarré1854 (help)
  41. ^ Ingersoll, Thomas N. (April 1991). "Free Blacks in a Slave Society: New Orleans, 1718–1812". The William and Mary Quarterly. 48 (2): 177. doi:10.2307/2938067.
  42. ^ Delanglez, John (1934). "The Natchez Massacre and Governor Perier" (PDF). The Louisiana Historical Quarterly. 17 (1935): 640.
  43. ^ Saxon, Lyle (1989). Fabulous New Orleans. Greta, Louisiana: Pelican Publishing Co. p. 106. ISBN 978-1-4556-0402-9.
  44. ^ Cushman, Horatio Bardwell (1899). History of the Choctaw, Chickasaw and Natchez Indians. Greenville, Texas: Headlight Printing House. pp. 547–548. ISBN 978-1-5485-1119-7.
  45. ^ Albrecht, Andrew C. (1946). "Indian–French Relations at Natchez". American Anthropologist. 48 (3): 348. doi:10.1525/aa.1946.48.3.02a00010.
  46. ^ Gayarré 1854, pp. 448–449. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFGayarré1854 (help)
  47. ^ Woods, Patricia Dillion (1978). "The French and the Natchez Indians in Louisiana: 1700–1731". Louisiana History: The Journal of the Louisiana Historical Association. 19 (4): 434. JSTOR 4231820.
  48. ^ a b Albrecht 1946, p. 349.
  49. ^ Barnett Jr., James F. (2007). The Natchez Indians: A History to 1735. Jackson, Mississippi: University Press of Mississippi. pp. 106–107. ISBN 978-1-60473-309-9.
  50. ^ Delanglez 1934, pp. 635–637.
  51. ^ Delanglez 1934, pp. 638–639.
  52. ^ Catton, Theodore (2017). A Many-Storied Place: Historical Resource Study, Arkansas Post National Memorial, Arkansas (PDF) (Report). Omaha, Nebraska: National Park Service, Midwest Region. p. 90.
  53. ^ Elliott, Charles N. (2007). "Samba Rebellion (1729)". In Rodriguez, Junius P. (ed.). Encyclopedia of Slave Resistance and Rebellion. Vol. 2. Westport, Connecticut: Greenwood Publishing Group. pp. 442–443. ISBN 978-0-313-33273-9.
  54. ^ Barnett Jr. 2007, p. 126.
  55. ^ Klein 2000, p. 18. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFKlein2000 (help)
  56. ^ Greenwald 2013, p. 15.
  57. ^ Lugan, Bernard (1994). Histoire de la Louisiane française: 1682-1804 [History of French Louisiana (1682-1804)] (in French). Paris, France: Perrin. ISBN 9782262000943.
  58. ^ a b Conrad, Glenn R. (1995). "Administration of the Illinois Country: The French Debate". Louisiana History: The Journal of the Louisiana Historical Association. 36 (1): 40. JSTOR 4233163.

Notes

  1. ^ 10,000 livres in 1725 is equivalent to about €151,000 in 2021. (Convertisseur de Monnaie d'Ancien Régime)

Discussion

Hi Carter, You made an serious work of research and this proposal is a very good start. Some remarks:

  • I do not agree to delete the subsection "Collusion with commandant Chepart" or whatever we aggre to named it. This partnership and its consequences (Chepart

asks the Natchez to leave their landi of White Apple to make a plantation for him and Perier) s cited by several authors as the reason that led to the revolt of Natches. Even the Company blamed Perier for that. Thanks.

  • For the content I would like to make some improvments.

Regard, --Belyny (talk) 15:12, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Belyny, The consensus was for something (final wording was not determined) closer to "Natchez revolt" than "Collusion with commandant Chepart." That's why I went with "Natchez revolt and retaliation." The details of Perier's support for Chépart and his desire to acquire the Natchez's land is all included in the text as is the fault the company and king found with him for it:

The Company was working to increase tobacco farming in the colony, and Chépart and Perier eyed the Natchez territory along the Mississippi as a ripe opportunity for a new plantation. Chépart issued an order for the Natchez to begin planning for their complete removal from White Apple Village and other Natchez territory. These actions sparked the Natchez revolt.

—Carter (talk) 15:41, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi Carter,
  • There was no consensus on that. For my part, I agree to dissociate Perier's partnership with Chepart from Natchez revolt that are two things connected but two totally different subjects. The Natchez revolt is not the subject of this article, the focus of this article is Governor Perier, his life and his actions.
  • To be constructive and find consensus I accepted several amendments on which I did not agree, thank you this time for the reciprocity on your part.
  • I am open to any proposal from your part on the title to be given to the Perier' colusion with Chepart to take the Natchez'land, but given its consequences, there is no reason to remove the subdivision concerning this important point in Perier’s action. This is not a "Native American policies" from the governor but a personal action on his part which was reproached him by the company and which had serious consequences.
I wish to make some amendments and additions to the content of the other paragraphs of your proposal, but let us first agree on the structure of the sub-divisions and their titles. Regards --Belyny (talk) 17:53, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi Belyny, can you be clear as to what you're wanting here? If I'm understanding you correctly, you want a specific subdivision about Chépart that is at a secondary or tertiary level. Is that correct? I don't believe that makes sense and would run afoul of MOS:OVERSECTION.
I labeled the section "Native American policies" because it the core of Perier's policy towards Native Americans was that the Company's interests were greater than any indigenous claims on the land. He then took personal advantage of that, working with Chépart, to try and force the Natchez to remove from land they (Perier and Chépart) wanted and it exploded spectacularly against him. That is all there in the text. Is there some aspect of what you feel needs to be included in the text that is missing?
How would you divide the text, preserving WP:NPOV and WP:EPSTYLE, to disentangle the tangled mess of personal business, formal policy, and the unintended reaction? —Carter (talk) 18:22, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
The current section has all of one sentence: "The Company was working to increase tobacco farming in the colony, and Chépart and Perier eyed the Natchez territory along the Mississippi as a ripe opportunity for a new plantation that would benefit them personally. Chépart issued an order for the Natchez to begin planning for their complete removal from White Apple Village and other Natchez territory" which can be seen as a description of collusion. All the rest of the 3 paragraphs are about the revolt and aftermath of massacres and slavery. The section, as currently framed, should be titled about the revolt, not the Chépart dealings. Finally, collusion has a very negative connotation in the English language and is not a dispassionate framing of the title.--Eostrix  (🦉 hoot hoot🦉) 14:41, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
@Carter Was this initially copied from the actual article, and then edited? ―Qwerfjkltalk 15:34, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
@User:Qwerfjkl, No, I drew on the existing article and sources, but wrote it fresh with additional sourcing. --Carter (talk) 15:42, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
@Carter Can you copy & paste the article in, replacing this article, and then immediately revert it, so it's easier to compare the two via diffs? ―Qwerfjkltalk 18:07, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Qwerfjkl, Here you go:
—Carter (talk) 18:44, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Carter, I thought I was clear:

  • I don't wan't a subdivision "about Chepart" as you wrote, I want to keep the subdivision (as secondary level in "Governor of the French Louisiana (1726-1733)" about Perier partnership with Chepart" (not the same at all).
  • I don’t agree with you point of vue: that makes sense and its does not go against MOS:OVERSECTION. (Also there is no spécific rule on number of subdivsions and a subdivion is justified by its content. A lot of Wikipedia:Good articles have many subdivisions see for exempleRichard Montgomery).
  • You make a mistake in your analysis : Partnership between Perier and Chepart to take for themselves Natchez land of White apple has nothing to do with "Native American policies" of the governor Perier under the order of the Companie des Indes. Its a another topic of personal behavior (blamed by the Compagnie) which had serious consequences and as such justifie a subdivison on this specific point.
  • There is no problem of WP:NPOV and WP:EPSTYLE in stating in an article what several authors write on a specific subject.
  • Before discuss the title and content of subdivions you proposed, it's better to find consensus on this point. I always accept your proposal even when I didn’t really agree, so I'd appreciate some of the same.

--Belyny (talk) 17:40, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Belyny, I moved your signature up to try any help keep the threading and conversation obvious.
I'm not wedded to "Native American policies" it's just a simple way to break out that aspect. I disagree with you that there is a clear difference between Perier's personal ambitions and his implementation of policies for the colony. It seems clear in the sources that he used his office to benefit himself personally, so it's not two different things its two aspects to what he did. He put in place policies in the name of the Company that he used to his personal benefit.
Yes, there can be more sections or fewer sections in articles, but it's dependent upon the content. I don't think breaking out the single paragraph "Achievements," for example, is necessary. If he didn't have the major incident of the Natchez revolt in his history, that would all just be part of the sole paragraph on his governorship.
Looking at your proposal below, you've repeated some things and placed a number of things out of chronological order (see MOS:BLPCHRONO). This creates issues of WP:UNDUE. For example, the Carter Godwin quote is in reference to his attack on the Chaouacha (not Chickasaw), which happened in response to the Natchez revolt. For it to make sense, you need to set up the full context of the attempt of the Natchez to enlist enslaved Africans into the attack on Fort Rosalie. As you've placed it, it doesn't really explain what was going on or why. Beyond that, the same point is given in the prior section ("To foster mistrust between the two groups, Perier used armed enslaved Black troops to attack neighboring Native Americans"). Most of the quotes about public burnings of Native Americans also came after and in response the Natchez revolt. That doesn't excuse them or make them less horrific, but it does indicate that it wasn't something being done just to do it. And, this is included in the section on the Natchez revolt and reaction. The quote you've pulled from Delanglez is about the attack on the Chaouacha, not the public burnings, which is the implication left by where you've placed it.
Regarding Chépart, a lot of what you have in here is about him, not Perier. Yes, Perier supported, enabled, and worked with Chépart, but I don't know that all the detail you have in here about him belongs here. Some of it is may be more appropriate in Natchez revolt.
When you reduce the duplication of content here, each section gets a lot shorter. Shorter is good (WP:BECONCISE), but then you come back to the MOS:OVERSECTION issue if it's a lot of really short sections.
I'm open to suggestions and have changed most all of the text I've proposed in the other sections in response to concerns and criticisms. I'm sorry if you feel it's been a one-way process, but I don't believe that's fair or accurate. My only goal here is to get a readable, accurate article posted to replace the mess that was frozen in place after the edit war between you and Savary34 (and his sockpuppets).—Carter (talk) 18:35, 30 June 2021 (UTC)


Hi Carter,
  • I disagree with you : there is a clear difference between Perier's personal ambitions and his implementation of policies for the colony. Your strong opposition on the subdivison "Parnership with Chepart" is againt WP:NPOV and its a point of vue.
  • Find consensus is not trying to impose a point of view without considering others are wrong.
  • Nobody has an editorial power to choose what should be said or not as long as it is information centered on the subject anf given by reliable secondary sources as references.
  • Findind a chronology error must not be a pretext to suppress information.
  • I'm sorry to remind you that before the Edit war started by Savary34 (and his sockpuppets), this article was shorter and not "a mess" [1]
  • If you constantly reject my arguments with reasons that I do not find valid, I don’t see how we can reach a consensus.
I’m too old to fight for nothing, so do you prefer I let you write "your article"? --Belyny (talk) 22:59, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Belyny, I'm not trying to impose a point of view; I'm trying to ensure the article is encyclopedic and in line with the WP:MOS. This includes having an article that is concise, NPOV, and logically laid out. I disagree that anything is being suppressed here; the points you are highlighting about Perier's actions and character are in the text. They may not have a separate subhead and they may not have the quotes that you've attached, but they are all there.
The MOS:BLPCHRONO issue isn't that there's an error in the chronology; it's that when that's resolved (and the duplication it's creating) you end up with much shorter sections, which is when MOS:OVERSECTION comes into play.
I'm not opposed to attempting to get more of what you want in the article; I'm opposed to adding repetitive material, quotes that require much more text to properly contextualize without gaining new information, and creating small sections or section heads that run afoul of WP:MOS. Regarding the diff you've linked to, yes, that's much shorter, but it also needs revision to meet MOS:BLPCHRONO and WP:BECONCISE. It's also missing some things that I learned about in researching Perier for this rewrite, such as his involvement with the Second Fox War and the Samba rebellion.
I do see some things that you've added that were missing in what I had, in particular Perier's pardoning of Chépart and reinstating him at the fort. That should be mentioned.
I'm not pushing back strongly because I disagree with including material. I'm pushing back when you are ignoring MOS conventions and aren't offering changes that are in line. My only reason for opposing a "Partnership with Chépart" subdivision is that I really only see about two sentences before it becomes about the Natchez revolt, which is the event that requires greater importance for detailing Perier's actions and reactions. I'd ask you to honestly divide up what you have here, put it in the proper chronological order, consider the appropriate level of detail, and see what's left.
—Carter (talk) 23:46, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Belyny, I've tried above to work in some of what you added in expansion. I'm not in favor of excessive quotes and I don't think they're necessary for the article, so I have not used them exactly. I also tried to add more to contextualize the changing nature of France's ambitions for New France at this time. The changes are highlighted in this diff. Hopefully this addresses your content concerns, even if the wording is not exactly as you've offered. —Carter (talk) 14:58, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Hi Carter,
  • I don’t agree with your interpretation of some guidelines to justify your points of view.
  • I maintain that there is a clear difference between Perier's personal ambitions and his implementation of policies for the colony and the the subdivison "Parnership with Chepart" is quite justified. I disagree with your point of view on that.
  • I maintain that some quotations of authors are accurate. Your writes "I'm not in favor of excessive quotes and I don't think they're necessary for the article, so I have not used them exactly" is a point of vue that I do no share.
  • In this discussion you seem to be positioning yourself as a super-editor with a "right of validation", but nobody (you, me...) has an editorial power to choose what should be said or not as long as it is information centered on the subject anf given by reliable secondary sources as references.
  • I'm sorry that your refusal to accept my proposals is not conductive to find consensus. I accepted many things that I did not agree with, I expected the same from you. Regards, --Belyny (talk) 17:50, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
Belyny, on the subject of quotations please read MOS:QUOTE, Wikipedia:Quotations#General Guidelines, and Wikipedia:Do not include the full text of lengthy primary sources. It is in the English Wikipedia guidelines to avoid lengthy quotations.--Eostrix  (🦉 hoot hoot🦉) 06:01, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
Belyny I'm not positioning myself as anything other than someone who's trying to navigate disputes around an article that has been subject to an unusual amount of discord. Part of that means looking to the MOS for direction and focusing on the text. I've been going back and working on the text above based on what the preponderance of sources say. If you have a dispute about the text, address it in the text; however, it is necessary to keep mind of the timeline of events. For example, the quotes you string together about Perier's torture and public execution of Natchez prisoners should not sit before any discussion of the Natchez revolt. Those events happened afterwards and in response to the revolt. Had they happened before, it would be explaining in part why the revolt happened, but that's not the case.
I don't think any of the text above attempts to minimize or excuse Perier's actions (official or personal). If you read the text you can see that I broke out a section "Plantation ambitions" that tries to emphasize his personal business ambitions and his entanglement with Chépart. While I'd rather focus on the text than the subtitles, I think that subtitle is better that "Partnership with Chépart" in part because the article is explaining who Chépart is; he's not an otherwise known or noteworthy individual so seeing his name in the subhead will mean nothing to the reader; he has no article we can link to in any language version of Wikipedia and "Chépart" may not even be his name. The text is where he is introduced and explained.
Regarding quotes, as Eostrix noted there is policy around their use, but if you think that a quote improves the ability of the article to inform and educate a reader, then look at a way to include it. Just dropping in quotes doesn't do the job, especially when their inclusion confuses the situation or requires otherwise unnecessary explanation or detail to setup.
Again, if you feel the text I've proposed is inaccurate or incomplete, work with it in line with MOS and WP policies to improve it. I'm not refusing to accept your proposals; I may not have embraced your words, but the substance of the content you've highlighted has been included. If you feel something's still missing or wrong, point it out in the text or indicate what should be added. —Carter (talk) 12:55, 5 July 2021 (UTC)


Hi Carter, I took time to read again your proposal and my proposal.

  • I remain convinced that the subdivisions "Nomination" and its content is relevant to explain the context of Perier's nomination
  • I disagre with your title "Plantation ambitions" it is too vague. The title of this subdivision must point out the partnership between Perier and Chepart to install a plantation on natchez lands. It is a important point highlighted by severals authors as one of the reasons of the Natchez Revolt. You can't diminish the importance of this point as you do.
  • The quotations I want to keep from secondary sources (not primary sources as written above) providing author's own thinking (and attributed to thy authors) to illustrate some specific points are more neutral than a paraphrase which is not exactly the views expressed by the authors. Even it is generally recommended that content be written in Wikipedia editors' own words, quotations are not forbidden and sometimes are more accurate to avoid any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources>
If you constantly refuse my points of view with counter arguments (and personal interpretation of guidelines) it seems to me difficult to find consensus. Do you want to write you own article? Regard --Belyny (talk) 23:59, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
Hi Belyny,
Again, all of the content that you're mentioning is in the above text. I don't see anything you're mentioning being obfuscated or diminished, it's just not in the subhead. I am not refusing your points; I've amended the above text to include things you mentioned. I'm not hearing from you that anything is missing or wrong in the text, just that you want a very specific subheading. The subheads need only help organize the information, not replace it. You also want to include quotes, but the way you placed them in the below text fails to respect the chronological order of the events in question and/or fail to accurately contextualize the quote, both of which creates WP:UNDUE problems. I'd also say that if you feel any of the paraphrasing done above goes beyond the source, then let's consider fixing the paraphrasing unless the direct quote is really needed. I see two ways forward from here, 1) you go ahead and rework the text in line with MOS policies and we discuss actual text or 2) seek a third opinion. —Carter (talk) 00:53, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

My [Belyny's] proposal is :

Governor of the French Louisiana (1726-1733)

Nomination

In August 1726, after then governor of French Louisiana Pierre Dugué de Boisbriant was recalled to France,[1] Perier was appointed commandant general of the territory, overseeing military matters and relations with the Native Americans.[2] He arrived in New Orleans in October 1726[3] and established his home at 613 Royal Street. a modest house made of wood and mud.[4] At this place was built in 1832 a new house that became in 1963 the Creole restaurant The Court of Two Sisters.[5]

Despite Perier's lack of experience in colonial administration, the Company of the Indies felt they had a long-time employee who would be a pliant administrator focused on the Company’s goals.[6] To ensure this, the Company granted him an annual salary of 10,000 French livres,[7][a] 10 acres (4.0 hectares) of riverfront land, and eight enslaved people a year so long as he remained in office.[8] He sold the land, which is in the modern McDonoghville neighborhood, in 1737.[9]

The Company directed Perier to increase the profitability of the colony, enforce discipline and loyalty, and keep the English from entering the territory. [10] He was specifically tasked with completing improvements to secure the health and safety of New Orleans, as well as to visit the Company settlement in Natchez.[11] Perier also sought to diffuse some of the partisan, religious, and familial cliques that had made running the colony difficult for his predecessors.[12] In this he had some initial successes, particularly in managing the dispute between Jesuit and Capuchin missionaries.[13]

Perier's taking office marked the end of the indigenous policy pursued by Governor Bienville.[14]

Achievements

Perier launched a large public works effort, overseeing the construction of the first levees on the Mississippi,[15] cleared forests and brush from the land between the city and Lake Pontchartrain,[15] and dug a canal from the Mississippi to connect the river to a rice mill on the king's plantation and Bayou St. John.[16] He also welcomed the Ursuline nuns to the city; his wife, Catherine, laid the cornerstone for the nun's first convent in the city.[17]

Slavery policies (Ok for this title)

Achieving of public works required the labor of enslaved Africans. As the Company had a monopoly on the slave trade, they tended to put enslaved people to work on projects until they were auctioned off to local slavehoders.[18] To increase the available workforce, Perier began conscripting enslaved people for 30 days at a time. In most cases, they were conscripted when the Company first brought them to Louisiana, before delivering them to their purchasers, which raised the ire of Louisiana slaveholders.[19] Perier also instituted an apprenticeship program where enslaved people were loaned to craftsmen for three years to train them as brickmakers, joiners, masons, carpenters, and other skilled trades necessary to the growth and development of the colony.[20] He also put enslaved Africans to work on Company ships, navigating the coast and rivers.[21]

At the time, both Africans and Native Americans were enslaved by French settlers. Perier was increasingly concerned about alliances among enslaved people, and he encouraged slaveholders to keep enslaved Africans apart from enslaved Native Americans for fear of the two groups forming alliances. He was particularly concerned that Native Americans who escaped from slavery would induce enslaved Africans to also escape and seek the protection of Native tribes.[22] To foster mistrust between the two groups, Perier used armed enslaved Black troops to attack neighboring Native Americans,[23] and he continued the policy of rewarding Native Americans for capturing escapees and disrupting maroon communities.[24]

Native American policies

Despite having been encouraged to learn from what Bienville had written about relations with the Native Americans[25] and recognizing the need to improve relations to forestall British advancement into the territory,[26] Perier did not deal with the Indians and treat them as equals as did the former governor Bienville Louisiana's colonial administrators at the time tried to balance the need to maintain good relations with Native Americans with demands from settlers for more and better land;[27] but Perier refuse to recognize Native American ownership of their traditional lands, including the rich lands of the Grand Village and other Natchez villages.[27][2]

Perier tried to control the Indians with fear and armed a group of Black slaves and sent them against a small group of peaceful Chickasaw Indians who lived South New Orleans.[28] Carter Godwin in The Journal of Negro History writes: "Perier's logic was reactionary. Since he had used blacks to murder Indians in order to make bad blood between the races, the Indians retaliated by using blacks to murder white men".[29]

Lyle Saxon in Fabulous New Orleans states "another record of horror" : "Soldiers from the New Orleans barracks managed to capture four men and two women of the Natchez nation, and Governor Perier had them burned at the stake on the levee in front of the Place d'Armes.[28] Perier said: "Since their flight, I have had fifty of them killed or taken prisoners. I buried here six of them, four men and two women".[30] Perier was criticised severly by some of his owns officers for this piece of brutal stupididy.[28]

It wasn’t the last time Perier burned Natchez prisoners alive. A Natchez woman was captured and Governor Perier had her burned to death on a high platform erected especially for the ceremony, and deto witness which all New Orleans again turned out in state[30]

Such policy wa blamed by the French Government. The Comptrolleur General was horrified and wrote to Perier : "What do you expect the natives will think when they witness the destruction of whole nations who have given you no offense? … Is it not equivalent to forcing them to look upon the French as barbarians who must be driven out or massacred?"[31]

Partnership with Chepart for a plantation on Natchez land

Perier Wished to establish for himself a large plantation near the Natchez village. He entered into a partnership with a sieur Chepart (or d'Etcheparre), known as a drunkard and brash person and promised him an interest in the futur plantation if he could secure the Natchez land. [32]Together they planed to operate this plantation on the rich lands held by the Natchez[33] and Perier appointed Chepart as new commandant of Fort Rosalie.

Immediately, Chepart tyrannized the people and abused his power. His presence had to be tolerated because of his friendship with governor Périer and his protection.[34] Finally Chepart was summoned before the Superior Council which found him guilty, but Perier pardoned Chepart and restored him to his command. Chepart could return to Natchez to pursue his plans to establish concessions for both himself and governor Perier on Indian Territory[35]

Chepart told the Natchez that he wished to seize land for a plantation in the center of White Apple, where the Natchez had a temple of their people's graves.[36][37][38] Governor Périer sided with Chépart and planted a cross on the land he sought.[39][38]

When the Natchez began to protest the seizure of their land for the plantation, Chépart said he would burn down the temple that contained their ancestors' graves. In response to this threat, the Natchez seemed to promise to cede the land, wrote Dumont de Montigny, but only if they were given two months to relocate their temple and graves. Chépart agreed to give them the time in exchange for pelts, oil, poultry, and grain—a request the Natchez promised to fulfill later.[39]

According to different authors the Natchez revolt in october lay in a larger pattern of Franco-Natchez conflict and the greed of Perier and Chepart.[40]

Accusations at this time the time go in the same direction : "His tyranny and his exactions goaded the Natchez to fury. This Dechepare was a creature of Perier ... his attempt to seize the land of the Natchez and to drive the Indians out of their village precipitated the crisis. But he Commandant, though reviled by everybody, was following instructions. In an unsigned memoir, date January, 1731, we read : "Moreover, it is secretly maintained, that the cause of the Natchez massacre should not be imputed to the late Chepart alone... and that he was following written orders which some people are said to have read". Elsewhere the accusation is more clearly formulated : "The reason which led the Natchez to perpetrate such a deed, is that M. Perier having the intention of beginning a plantation in their country in partnership with Dechepare...had asked him to drive out the Natchez... in order to take the land occupied by the Indians for their plantations".[41]

Natchez revolt and retaliation (ok for this title)

To come

Consequences and Perier's recall

To come

References

  1. ^ Sumners, Cecil L. (1998). The Governors of Mississippi. Gretna, Louisiana: Pelican Publishing. p. 12. ISBN 978-1-4556-0521-7.
  2. ^ a b McGuire, Jack B. (2010). "Etienne de Perier". In Cowan, Walter Greaves; McGuire, Jack B. (eds.). Louisiana Governors: Rulers, Rascals, and Reformers. Jackson, Mississippi: University Press of Mississippi. p. 25. ISBN 978-1-60473-320-4.
  3. ^ Fortier, Alcée (1904). A History of Louisiana: Early Explorers and the Domination of the French (1512-1768). Vol. 1. New York, New York: Manzi, Joyant & Co. p. 103. GGKEY:CSYD4YCWBUH.
  4. ^ [https://books.google.com/books?id=ffxYAAAAMAAJ&q=%22en+r%C3%A9alit%C3%A9+modeste+maison+en+bois+et+en+torchis%22&dq=%22en+r%C3%A9alit%C3%A9+modeste+maison+en+bois+et+en+torchis%22&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj1p6aUy77xAhUzkmoFHdpZA9QQ6AEwAHoECAIQAg Marc de Villiers du Terrage, La Louisiane de Chateaubriand, Au siège de la Société, 1924, page 147.
  5. ^ Brown, Alan (2021). Louisiana Legends & Lore. Mount Pleasant, South Carolina: Arcadia Publishing. p. 59. ISBN 978-1-4671-4751-4.
  6. ^ Balesi, Charles John (1992). The Time of the French in the Heart of North America, 1673-1818. Chicago, Illinois: Alliance Française Chicago. p. 175. ISBN 978-1-881370-00-0. Retrieved 21 June 2021.
  7. ^ Giraud, Marcel (1991). A History of French Louisiana: The Company of the Indies, 1723–1731. Translated by Pearce, Brian. Baton Rouge, Louisiana: LSU Press. p. 54. ISBN 978-0-8071-1571-8.
  8. ^ Gayarré, Charles (1854). History of Louisiana: The French Domination. Vol. 1. New York, New York: Redfield. p. 372.
  9. ^ Swanson, Betsy (2003). Historic Jefferson Parish: From Shore to Shore. Gretna, Louisiana: Pelican Publishing. p. 110. ISBN 978-1-4556-0576-7. Retrieved 21 June 2021.
  10. ^ Haudrère 1996, pp. 87–100.
  11. ^ Gayarré 1854, pp. 372–375. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFGayarré1854 (help)
  12. ^ Giraud 1991, p. 58. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFGiraud1991 (help)
  13. ^ Giraud 1991, pp. 58, 102. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFGiraud1991 (help)
  14. ^ [https://books.google.com/books?id=ekznzbNCQwYC&pg=PA16&dq=labandon+de+la+politique+indig%C3%A8ne+de+Bienville&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj74t2e0r7xAhV4lGoFHamYAUwQ6AEwAHoECAcQAg#v=onepage&q=%22l'abandon%20de%20la%20politique%20indig%C3%A8ne%20de%20Bienville%22&f=falseKhalil Saadani, La Louisiane française dans l'impasse: 1731-1743, Editions L'Harmattan, 2008, page 16.}
  15. ^ a b Rightor, Henry (1900). Standard History of New Orleans, Louisiana. Chicago, Illinois: The Lewis Publishing Co. p. 81.
  16. ^ Franks, Herschel A.; Yakubik, Jill-Karen (1994). Cultural Resources Survey of Four Construction Items Below New Orleans (Report). New Orleans, Louisiana: U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. p. 245.
  17. ^ Cruzat, Heloise Hulse (1919). "The Ursulines of Louiana". Louisiana Historical Quarterly. 1 (1): 12.
  18. ^ Usner Jr., Daniel H. (1979). "From African Captivity to American Slavery: The Introduction of Black Laborers to Colonial Louisiana". Louisiana History: The Journal of the Louisiana Historical Association. 20 (1): 32. JSTOR 4231866.
  19. ^ Hall, Gwendolyn Midlo (1995). Africans in Colonial Louisiana: The Development of Afro-Creole Culture in the Eighteenth Century. Baton Rouge, Louisiana: LSU Press. p. 127. ISBN 978-0807119990.
  20. ^ Usner Jr. 1979, p. 34. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFUsner_Jr.1979 (help)
  21. ^ Greenwald 2011, p. 193.
  22. ^ Willis, William S. (July 1963). "Divide and Rule: Red, White, and Black in the Southeast". The Journal of Negro History. 48 (3): 162. JSTOR 2716338.
  23. ^ Blackbird, Leila K. (2018). Entwined Threads of Red and Black: The Hidden History of Indigenous Enslavement in Louisiana, 1699-1824 (MA). New Orleans, Louisiana: University of New Orleans. p. 47–48.
  24. ^ Usner Jr. 1979, p. 44. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFUsner_Jr.1979 (help)
  25. ^ Giraud 1991, p. 36. sfn error: multiple targets (2×): CITEREFGiraud1991 (help)
  26. ^ Greenwald 2011, p. 191.
  27. ^ a b Klein, Michael (2000). Louisiana: European Explorations and the Louisiana Purchase — A Special Presentation from the Geography and Map Division of the Library of Congress (PDF) (Report). Washington, D.C.: Library of Congress. p. 21.
  28. ^ a b c Saxon, Lyle (1989). Fabulous New Orleans. Greta, Louisiana: Pelican Publishing Co. ISBN 978-1-4556-0402-9.
  29. ^ Woodson, Carter Godwin; Logan, Rayford Whittingham (1916). The Journal of Negro History. Chicago, Illinois: Association for the Study of Negro Life and History. p. 370.
  30. ^ a b Cushman, Horatio Bardwell (1899). History of the Choctaw, Chickasaw and Natchez Indians. Greenville, Texas: Headlight Printing House. pp. 547–548. ISBN 978-1-5485-1119-7.
  31. ^ Rev. John Delanglez, The Natchez massacre and governor Perier, 1934, Georgetown University, Washington DC, 1934, page 640.
  32. ^ Davis, Edwin Adams (undefined). Historical. J.F. Hyer Publishing Company – via Google Books. {{cite book}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  33. ^ Wolfgang Binder, Creoles and Cajuns: French Louisiana, Peter Lang, 1998, page 4.
  34. ^ Louisiana History, Louisiana Historical Association, 1978, page 432.
  35. ^ Daniel H. Usner, Jr., American Indians in the Lower Mississippi Valley: Social and Economic Histories, U of Nebraska Press, 1998, page 26.
  36. ^ Barnett 2007, pp. 80–85.
  37. ^ Le Page du Pratz 1758, pp. 230–31.
  38. ^ a b Usner 1998, p. 26.
  39. ^ a b Dumont de Montigny 2012, pp. 227–28.
  40. ^ [ https://books.google.com/books?id=jmnbCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA472&dq=%22and+the+greed+of+P%C3%A9rier%22&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjMh-2l4r_xAhVVlGoFHcDvDdkQ6AEwAHoECAIQAg#v=onepage&q=%22and%20the%20greed%20of%20P%C3%A9rier%22&f=false Alan Gallay, Colonial Wars of North America, 1512-1763,Routledge, page 472.]
  41. ^ Rev. John Delanglez, The Natchez massacre and governor Perier, 1934, Georgetown University, Washington DC, 1934, page 637.

Notes

  1. ^ 10,000 livres in 1725 is equivalent to about €151,000 in 2021. (Convertisseur de Monnaie d'Ancien Régime)

I try to finish my proposal tomorrow. Regard --Belyny (talk) 17:40, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

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