Talk:United Airlines Flight 93

First passenger killed

Did you know that Mark Rothenberg was the first person killed on flight 93? Zachbarbo (talk) 17:27, May 29, 2021 (UTC)

Source for that? Acroterion (talk) 21:56, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

I heard it from numerous documentaries and movies. Zachbarbo (talk) 16:58, June 1, 2021 (UTC)

Can you name which specific ones they are? Nightscream (talk) 21:46, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

From what I gather, the documentary in question is “The Flight That Fought Back”, whose narrator states “it is believed Mickey’ Rothenberg is the first person attacked”. In his book “Among the Heroes,” which I added a NBC link to, Jere Longman writes about Rothenberg being the possible victim, and it is elaborated on in Tom McMillan’s book “Flight 93: The Story, the Aftermath, and the Legacy of American Courage on 9/11”. I tried to add a link to pages 153 or 154, but it caused a problem so I wrote the words instead, so that someone might be able to find it and link it instead.86.8.200.101 (talk) 16:28, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Hostages in the cockpit

In reading various articles on Flight 93, it appears that those who listened to the plane's cockpit voice recorder took down statements and pleas by "two" native English speaking people who weren't hijackers, a man and a woman. The presence of hostages in the cockpit could be discerned at first from a stream of harsh commands Jarrah issued in English after his "Here the captain" announcement. Before the woman's voice was heard, and as the commands started, a male voice pleads "No more," several times. In the "Washington Post's account of the recording at the trial"., this comment is attributed to a "victim", indicating the voice was American. This, as well as moaning that was said to be heard, indicates that a pilot (some, including the late Sandy Dahl (Jason Dahl's wife) and David Dosch (a friend of Jason), believing it to be Capitan Dahl, possibly repeatedly disabling the plane's autopilot feature to attempt to foil the hijackers), was alive in the cockpit and refused to follow Jarrah's commands to "sit down." The belief by Sandy Dahl was included as far back as 2015 (https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=United_Airlines_Flight_93&oldid=644554398) but has been omitted over the course of several edits about a year back, apparently by accident, and thus only the later comment is included, "Dahl seemingly continued to moan and fight Jarrah over the controls, repeatedly disengaging the autopilot, as at 09:40, there were horn sounds that indicating the hijackers were repeatedly having trouble with the autopilot and were fiddling with a green knob." Along with bringing the initial paragraph back, so that the later comment doesn't seem to come out of nowhere (like I said, deleting the first comment about this, would confuse readers on where the "moaning" was first heard), I am changing the words slightly so it can make more sense, notably changing the word "indicating" to "indicated" instead.86.8.200.101 (talk) 20:58, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for the work you've done on this. I don't have time to check the sources you cited to ensure that they support your additions; I just made a minor copyedit on a space that violated WP:PAIC. Perhaps someone else can check the text to make sure it's source-accurate. Nightscream (talk) 21:40, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

“cofirm”

According to the Commission Four Flights Monograph, the response to Ed’s about possible cockpit invasion was written as “cofirm” than “confirm”. I’m writing to reflect this as it is written in the monograph.86.8.200.101 (talk) 18:10, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

“Mayday!”

Much interpretation has been made of the two brief mayday calls. Melody Homer wrote in her book that she recognised her husband voice as giving the call, as she and Sandy Dahl listened to both the mayday recording and the CVR recording to see if they could recognise their husbands’ voices. Some people have claimed to have heard a woman crying out, “Oh My God!” on the first call, or men shouting, “Stop it!” or “We’re are all going to die here!” On the audio of the second recording on the page, the subtitles are written as though ”we all gonna die here!” is actually being said. So in order to clear up these interpretations, I am using the NTSB Flight Path Study, United Flight 93, from February 19, 2002, and the Four Flights Monograph which detail the words and Werth’s actions. Although the NTSB report lists only one “Mayday,” the April 12, 2006 New York Times account of the voice recording played at the Moussaoui trial indicated the word was repeated three times, which is standard practice among pilots and boat captains, to be sure the emergency is clearly communicated.86.8.201.86 (talk) 15:57, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

The NTSB report should not be cited directly, in my opinion. The better route is to follow the WP:SECONDARY guideline and cite analysis by secondary sources. Binksternet (talk) 16:22, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

I have removed the words “purposely keyed the microphone so sounds of the struggle would be heard by officials on the ground” as it is copied directly from Tom McMillan’s book. 213.104.124.144 (talk) 08:34, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes, but you introduced plagiarized wording from that same source and failed to attribute it.--MONGO (talk) 12:10, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

CVR partially released

Not many people seem to know, but some portions of the CVR were released for the 15th anniversary. I have added a link to an FBI website where the tape is played. I don’t know if any other source for it exists. I also specify what parts were played.213.104.124.144 (talk) 17:58, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Stop interpreting and analyzing primary sources. It's a violation of WP:No original research. Binksternet (talk) 18:20, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

I second that...while NIST and other government sources can be used directly as they are public domain, we try to avoid using primary sources.--MONGO (talk) 05:29, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Totally agree with comments by Binksternet and MONGO. David J Johnson (talk) 12:07, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Beamer’s exact words

Removing the sentence “Beamer told Jefferson the group was planning to "jump on" the hijackers and fly the plane into the ground before the hijackers' plan could be followed through”, Beamer as quoted by Jefferson in the Guardian article said that he ”thinking about jumping the guy with the bomb”, with no mention of crashing the plane of their own accord. Regardless of the outcome, the passengers in the calls, said they were trying to retake the plane and save their own lives. They had lots to live for.80.43.197.240 (talk) 08:18, 10 July 2021 (UTC)