Talk:Mongols

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2020 and 15 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Akandrews (article contribs).

Semi-protected edit request on 27 November 2020

I would like to add "mongols are bound together by a common 'ancestry',heritage and ethnic identity. I would like to add the ancestry part as mongols all share to an extent the same ancestry based on several sources done on mongol genetics. Mongol 1206 (talk) 08:54, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

We already say they are an ethnic group. I'm not quite sure it can be said that people's ancestry binds them together, since it's rather (like we already mention here) ethnic identity that does so. – Thjarkur (talk) 11:13, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 November 2020

I would like to change the total population of the mongols from 10-11 million to a number such as 10,494,346 (the total from this article excluding daurs) or 10,626,338 (including daurs) this comes from the daurs article on wikipedia itself. Thanks for taking it as a consideration to put the total number, your effort is very much appreciated. Mongol 1206 (talk) 09:56, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: @Mongol 1206: could you provide a link to the actual source used for those numbers on the Daurs article, because according to Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a reliable source, Wikipedia itself is not a reliable source. Thanks. Seagull123 Φ 19:11, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344210956_China_Ethnic_Statistical_Yearbook_2020

About the exact number of daurs based on this source, the Wikipedia number is right at 131,992 daurs. We should atleast add these numbers to the mongols in China of 6.2 million and say (including daurs) next to it. Mongol 1206 (talk) 11:42, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 November 2020

I would like to change the total population of the mongols from 10-11 million to a number such as 10,494,346 (the total from this article excluding daurs) or 10,626,338 (including daurs) this comes from the daurs article on wikipedia itself. Thanks for taking it as a consideration to put the total number, your effort is very much appreciated.

Here is the actual source for the number: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344210956_China_Ethnic_Statistical_Yearbook_2020 Mongol 1206 (talk) 01:33, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

​The source you link to does not make a claim of there being 10.5 million Mongols, it says that Mongols in China are 0.5% of the country's population which is about 6,2 million in China. We cannot sum up these numbers to reach an exact figure (because of significant figures), so "10-11 million" is more correct than an exact figure. – Thjarkur (talk) 10:10, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

You should add the daurs population to mongols in China 131,992 Mongol 1206 (talk) 11:39, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

About the exact number of daurs based on this source, the Wikipedia number is right at 131,992 daurs. We should atleast add these numbers to the mongols in China of 6.2 million and say (including daurs) next to it. Mongol 1206 (talk) 11:44, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

What??

Russia: 1,035,000 (including Tuvans and Altai people) We are not Mongols! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.26.232.114 (talk) 13:15, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Edit semi-protected

Hello, Mongolian here. I'd like to make a minor distinction. We start with "The Mongols (Mongolian: Монголчууд, ᠮᠣᠩᠭᠣᠯᠴᠤᠳ, Mongolchuud, [ˈmɔɴ.ɢɔɬ.t͡ʃot]; Chinese: 蒙古族) are an East Asian/Central Asian ethnic group native to Mongolia and to China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region".

This is all true. However, why aren't we adding the Buryats and Kalmyks (Oirats) living in Russia? Buryatia is Mongol land absorbed by Russia but we speak the same language, are the same ethnic group, eat the same food and celebrate the same festivals, except governed by Russia due to imperialism (similar to Inner Mongolia in China).

So when we start, we should say, ""The Mongols (Mongolian: Монголчууд, ᠮᠣᠩᠭᠣᠯᠴᠤᠳ, Mongolchuud, [ˈmɔɴ.ɢɔɬ.t͡ʃot]; Chinese: 蒙古族; Russian: Монгольские народы) are an East/Central Asian ethnic group native to Mongolia, Russia's Buryatia, and to China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region".

And we don't have to say Kalmykia since Oirat Kalmyk Mongols migrated to Europe after the fall of the Dzungar Khanate in the 18th century so they aren't native to that region. It's just Buryatia.

Let's hope we don't find pushback from nationalist Russians who claim Buryatia is theirs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TengriinBogd (talk • contribs) 04:14, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. @TengriinBogd: The lead must be a summary of the content already in the article, and needs to be based on reliable sources, per WP:Verifiability. I see a mention of the presence of Mongols in areas outside of Mongolia and China, notably Russia (in the lead itself), but I do not see any sources provided to say they are native to these areas (and given the well known exploits of Genghis Khan, it isn't quite a surprise that the Mongols expended geographically outside of their native lands...). I'd suggest you propose changes to the section on Russia (Mongols#Russia) - which is remarkably short compared to the others - first, to see if there is enough reliably sourced material about this. Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 23:48, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Not really sure how Wikipedia works but I hope my response is visible in this publication. I'd love to provide sources that support the change to include Buryatia the same we do as the Inner Mongolian Autonomous Region. The latter is granted "autonomous" status whilst only 16-19% of the population is actually of Mongolian ethnicity, with Han Chinese dominating the indigenous Mongolian lands and many do not get along at all. In the same vein, ethnic Russians, due to colonization of Siberia beginning from the 16th century, have settled in Buryatia in the 17th century in search of wealth, gold, and furs.

Let's see an excerpt from the history of Buryatia in very simple terms:

"Mongolic-related Slab Grave cultural monuments are found in Baikal territory. The territory of Buryatia has been governed by the Xiongnu Empire (209 BC-93 CE) and Mongolian Xianbei state (93-234), Rouran Khaganate (330-555), Mongol Empire (1206-1368), and Northern Yuan (1368-1691). Medieval Mongol tribes like Merkit, Bayads, Barga Mongols and Tümeds inhabited in Buryatia. Today Buryat-Mongols populate the territory of Buryatia.

The area of the present-day Buryatia was first colonized in the 17th century by Russians in search of wealth, furs, and gold.

In 1923, the Buryat-Mongolian Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (Buryat: Буряадай Автономито Совет Социалис Республика; Russian: Бурятская Автономная Советская Социалистическая Республика) was created as a result of the merger of State of Buryat-Mongolia and Mongol-Buryat Oblasts. In 1937, Aga Buryatia and Ust-Orda Buryatia were detached from the Buryat-Mongolian ASSR and merged with Chita and Irkutsk Oblasts, respectively. In 1958, the name "Mongol" was removed from the name of the republic. The Buryat ASSR declared its sovereignty in 1990 and adopted the name Republic of Buryatia in 1992. However, it remained an autonomous republic within the Russian Federation. On 11 July 1995 Buryatia signed a power-sharing agreement with the federal government, granting it autonomy. This agreement would be abolished on 15 February 2002."

Not only did ethnic Russians expand from the Rus in today's Ukraine to Asian Siberian territory, the Mongolian territory to this day is Russified, with Cyrillic and Russian being taught to ethnic Buryat Mongols in an effort to assimilate. The term "anti-mongolianism" exists because multiple superpowers attempted (and succeeded largely) to absorb southern tip of Mongolia which is Inner Mongolia and northern tip of Mongolia, which is Buryatia itself.

"During the height of the USSR, Soviet Russian scientists attempted to convince the Kalmyks and Buryats that they were not Mongols during the 20th century (demongolization policy). 35,000 Buryats were killed during the rebellion of 1927 and around one-third of Buryat population in Russia died in the 1900s–1950s. In 1919 the Buryats established a small theocratic Balagad state in Kizhinginsky District of Russia and the Buryat's state fell in 1926. In 1958, the name "Mongol" was removed from the name of the Buryat-Mongol Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic."

I hope this is clear and let me know if you need more information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TengriinBogd (talk • contribs) 03:35, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Requesting a minor addition to the first sentence of the "Mongols" page, which starts with "The Mongols (Mongolian: Монголчууд, ᠮᠣᠩᠭᠣᠯᠴᠤᠳ, Mongolchuud, [ˈmɔɴ.ɢɔɬ.t͡ʃot]; Chinese: 蒙古族) are an East Asian/Central Asian ethnic group native to Mongolia and to China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region".

This is all true, but why are the native Buryat Mongolians of Buryatia, Russia missing from the family? Buryat is a Mongol subgroup and Buryatia is Mongol land absorbed by Russia but we speak the same language, are the same ethnic group, eat the same food and celebrate the same festivals, except governed by Russia due to imperialism (similar to Inner Mongolia in China). The Buryats (Buryat: Буряад, romanized: Buryaad; Mongolian: Буриад, Buriad), a Mongolian people numbering approximately 500,000, comprise one of the two largest indigenous groups in Siberia.

With the addition made, it should say, "The Mongols (Mongolian: Монголчууд, ᠮᠣᠩᠭᠣᠯᠴᠤᠳ, Mongolchuud, [ˈmɔɴ.ɢɔɬ.t͡ʃot]; Chinese: 蒙古族; Russian: Монгольские народы) are an East/Central Asian ethnic group native to Mongolia, China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, and Russia's Republic of Buryatia". In China, Mongolians balance Mongolian and Chinese languages while in Russia, Mongolians balance Mongolian and Russian languages.

Let's see an excerpt from the history of Buryatia in simple terms:

"Mongolic-related Slab Grave cultural monuments are found in Baikal territory. The territory of Buryatia has been governed by the Xiongnu Empire (209 BC-93 CE) and Mongolian Xianbei state (93-234), Rouran Khaganate (330-555), Mongol Empire (1206-1368), and Northern Yuan (1368-1691). Medieval Mongol tribes like Merkit, Bayads, Barga Mongols and Tümeds inhabited in Buryatia. Today Buryat-Mongols populate the territory of Buryatia. The area of the present-day Buryatia was first colonized in the 17th century by Russians in search of wealth, furs, and gold."

However, "During the height of the USSR, Soviet Russian scientists attempted to convince the Kalmyks and Buryats that they were not Mongols during the 20th century (demongolization policy). 35,000 Buryats were killed during the rebellion of 1927 and around one-third of Buryat population in Russia died in the 1900s–1950s. In 1919 the Buryats established a small theocratic Balagad state in Kizhinginsky District of Russia and the Buryat's state fell in 1926. In 1958, the name "Mongol" was removed from the name of the Buryat-Mongol Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic."

Not only is it morally correct to remind people that Mongolians are native to Buryatia, but that they speak Buryat dialect of Mongolian in Buryatia as well, just like how Mongolians speak a dialect of Mongolian in Inner Mongolia, China. It's our responsibility to make sure Mongolian ethnicities (whether they be Khalkha, Buryat, Dariganga, Chakhar, etc) are listed correctly in their corresponding native regions.

References

That’s true buryats and kalmyks are Mongolians. Aminafrommongolia56 (talk) 12:02, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 July 2021

I want to edit the mongols section because mongols are central Asian/ East Asian people but it only said East Asian. I lived in Mongolia for more than 20 years and I know our history. Aminafrommongolia56 (talk) 09:58, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:39, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Why does it say mongols are East Asian?

Why does it say mongols are East Asian when they are central Asian/East Asian? I am from Mongolia and lived here since I was born. If you ask a Mongolian the question they would answer “төв ази” ( Central Asia). Aminafrommongolia56 (talk) 12:00, 29 July 2021 (UTC)