User talk:Bensin/Archives/2012

Article Feedback Tool - notes and office hours

Hey guys! Another month, another newsletter.

First off - the first bits of AFT5 are now deployed. As of early last week, the various different designs are deployed on 0.1 percent of articles, for a certain "bucket" of randomly-assigned readers. With the data flooding in from these, we were able to generate a big pool of comments for editors to categorise as "useful" or "not useful". This information will be used to work out which form is the "best" form, producing the most useful feedback and the least junk. Hopefully we'll have the data for you by the end of the week; I can't thank the editors who volunteered to hand-code enough; we wouldn't be where we are now without you.

All this useful information means we can move on to finalising the tool, and so we're holding an extra-important office hours session on Friday, 6th January at 19:00 UTC in #wikimedia-office. If you can't make it, drop me a note and I'll be happy to provide logs so you can see what went on - if you can make it, but will turn up late, bear in mind that I'll be hanging around until 23:00 UTC to deal with latecomers :).

Things we'll be discussing include:

• The design of the feedback page, which will display all the feedback gathered through whichever form comes out on top.
• An expansion of the pool of articles which have AFT5 displayed, from 0.1 percent to 0.3 (which is what we were going to do initially anyway)
• An upcoming Request for Comment that will cover (amongst other things) who can access various features in the tool, such as the "hide" button.

If you can't make it to the session, all this stuff will be displayed on the talkpage soon after, so no worries ;). Hope to see you all there! Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 04:50, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

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Done. --Bensin (talk) 11:39, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Teamwork Barnstar
	Dear Bensin, Thanks for all your help in designing the new article feedback tools, so we can provide a better user experience and engage more readers to become editors over time! Even though I am a newbie on Wikipedia, I have learned a lot from you already, and look forward to a great collaboration with you in 2012! Fabrice Florin (talk) 21:19, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I enjoyed working with you too. --Bensin (talk) 06:48, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

White-fruited strawberry

See Pineberry. Nadiatalent (talk) 20:41, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Great! I added the image in Pineberry to the article about strawberries. Thanks for letting me know! :-) --Bensin (talk) 21:15, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for finding the problem and fixing it! Nadiatalent (talk) 14:12, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for finding the solution and telling me about it! :-) --Bensin (talk) 15:15, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Article Feedback Tool

Hey guys; apologies for the belated nature of this notification; as you can probably imagine, the whole blackout thing kinda messed with our timetables :P. Just a quick reminder that we've got an office hours session tomorrow at 19:00 in #wikimedia-office, where we'll be discussing the results of the hand-coding and previewing some new changes. Hope to see you there :). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 21:47, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Barnstar

(barnstar returned to sender User:Philippe (WMF))		The Original Barnstar
		This barnstar is awarded to everyone who - whatever their opinion - contributed to the discussion about Wikipedia and SOPA. Thank you for being a part of the discussion. Presented by the Wikimedia Foundation.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Philippe (WMF) (talk • contribs) 20:38, 21 January 2012

I am sorry, Philippe, but I cannot accept this barnstar. I must admit that for a long time I have secretly wanted The Original Barnstar, but I always imagined receiving it for my body of work and not for expressing an opinion (however well founded) in what appears to be a Wikimedia foundation initiated and driven[1] political campaign. What other issues would the foundation be willing to take a stand on? And what if the foundation takes a stand on something where we fundamentaly disagree? Would I have to quit the project living with the regret that all my time, all my work and efforts here was donated to an organization that turned out to fundamentaly disagree with me? Up until now the safeguard preventing this was our two policies Wikipedia:NOTADVOCATE#ADVOCATE and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. In this case I believe the foundation abused its leverage to swing Wikipedia like a sword in a most unflattering manner and then condescendingly patted its users for allowing it. I sincerely doubt the foundation would hand out barnstars had the proposal not been supported by the community.

User Kat Walsh made an interesting argument that "We depend on a legal infrastructure that makes it possible for us to operate", but the argument has serious flaws. When she is talking about "legal infrastructure" she is referring to "American legal infrastructure" and when she is talking about what "makes it possible for us [and other sites] to operate" she is referring to what "makes it possible for us [and other sites] to operate in the US". The Wikimedia projects may be based in the US, but I think we all can agree it's a global project, and as such it can, if needed, move its base to another country. That would however require the foundation staff to relocate or quit their jobs, which may be one reason it was so eager to take a stand on this issue.

That said, I am just as happy as anyone else that the legislation seems to be postponed. I will nonetheless return this barnstar to you, but I recognize it was given to me in good faith. --Bensin (talk) 16:45, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

... and I did so here. --Bensin (talk) 16:56, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

An actual barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		for your fantastic work helping develop the Article Feedback Tool. It's been a pleasure :) Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 14:59, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Because I saw your message above ;p.

On the SOPA note; we are a global project, but our servers are based in the US (mostly), and there really aren't many nations which have a legal system that would be loose enough to deal with us. It's not enough to have copyright exemptions, you also need fair use (which only the US has), exemptions under defamation law, and a whole host of other things. Then you have to look into things like finding a legal system that has no problem with lots of money trickling in from loads of different countries (our donation model) and it becomes a real headache. Then we have to find a nation with strong network architecture so it can support our servers - another issue.

Even if such a country was found, we'd then have to relocate, and this is yet another big problem - lets say we have 90 staffers and contractors, and 60 of them decide they don't want to move to Sweden or whatever. That's two-thirds of the talent and experience gone, just like that; we have to hire a lot of new people who will take a long time to settle in, which will set us back years. That's without taking into account the financial cost of relocating the remaining 30 staff, getting a brand new office set up, training said 60 people, moving all the servers over, and so on and so forth. And where does that money come from? We're not that rich; money is apportioned to various departments to be spent on various things, and you can't just find the funding to do all of that stuff without draining the budgets for "actual" development (buying new servers, doing research, whatever).

And after doing this; after moving halfway across the world, losing a massive chunk of our personnel and experience, setting the movement back years in terms of development and having to learn Swedish, what do we have? We have SOPA passing - SOPA, a statute specifically aimed at having foreign websites blocked from US readers, who are a sizeable chunk of our annual income.

I'm not saying there weren't issues with how the WMF handled the situation, and if something similar comes up in the future, I'm sure things will be done better - although I personally hope we never have to do something like this again, because if you do it all the time it starts losing its value. But I disagree that the staffers involved were opposed to SOPA because it would get them fired. They were opposed to SOPA because they care about this movement, and because if SOPA passed, this movement would be set back years. I'm not based in the US, I'm not dependent on the Foundation being based in the US, and I'm not even a proper staffer, and even I wanted this thing killed ;). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 14:59, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I like to think my participation had a positive impact on the AFT project and that this barnstar confirms that. Thank you!

Of course you wanted SOPA and PIPA killed. I did too. You'd be crazy not to :-) But the USA is not a City upon a Hill and fair use is not the foundation of the Wikimedia projects.

A move may not be on the table, but if it were, the language would probably be the least concern. If all (35 is it?) English language speaking nations in the world were discarded, almost half of all citizens in EU countries speak English. 85% in Sweden do, 87% in the Netherlands, 83% in Denmark.[2] Norway and Iceland are not EU members but the numbers there can be expected to be similar. As for network architecture, well, we have "the internets" here too you know ;-) Apple, Microsoft, Google and Facebook are some companies that has showed interest in moving their servers to Sweden for example.[3] Unfortunately we have that abominable FRA law but I can't see how that is significantly worse than the American Room 641A-flavour. Besides, did the foundation ever consider a distributed staff could be a strength and not a weakness? How many developers working in India for the same price as one working in San Francisco? Would a distributed staff perhaps move us towards our goal of a move diverse editing community?

The 2007 move from Florida to the San Francisco Bay Area seem to indicate that headquarters and staff need not be located in the same legislative area as the servers. Regardless, the Wikimedia projects are the biggest, brainiest organization in the world. We'd figure it out. If a move of the staff was required, and if I accept your estimation that 2/3 would quit, in the light of recent events I'm not so sure that would be an entirely bad thing... And by that very pointed remark I mean to say two things: Firstly: I do believe ALL staffers have good intentions, but using "the ring" (i.e. the sway with the community) for "objective good purposes" is tricky, and just as with the start-up and first roll-out of AFT, this gamble was initiated and driven by the Wikimedia foundation. This gambling of the Wikipedia project's halo of neutrality was a stunt that may turn out to be expensive in the long run. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, but a little less sword wielding would be becoming. Secondly: The Wikimedia projects were thriving long before any staffers started to run the show. In October, 2006, the foundation had five(!) paid employees. In May 2011, the foundation had 65 employees. Is it up to 90 now?! With this growing staff I see foundation take upon itself tasks that perhaps better should be handled by the community. Pampering the community will weaken it. If the foundation takes a stand on a political matter (even implicitly) it will without a doubt influence the community. Perhaps sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse but successfully urging the community to involve itself in politics will always be at the price of our neutrality. --Bensin (talk) 23:06, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Good points all :). I was including things like external and temporary contractors in the numbers count (and it was a fairly rough guess) hence the disparity ;). From the time I briefly spent on-site in SF, I can confirm that things tend to work significantly better when staff and contractors are in the same sort of location; taking emails, for example - because of time differences, if I send an eomail to Dario and he misses it for a day, that's two days, real-time. If I'm sat in the cubicle next to him, I can pop my head over the top and ask :). It solves a heck of a lot of comms problems. Fair use is not really the primary issue; it's more things like "does your defamation law permit a common carrier exemption?" and "is the same true of copyright law?". But I'm not an expert on Swedish law (or, indeed, US law! ;p). Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 08:26, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

From the time I never spent on-site in SF, I can confirm that even HUGE projects tend to turn out perfectly fine using a distributed model. As for if defamation laws permit a common carrier exemption in the some 60 potential countries, I cannot answer. And you'll have to explain the concept to me (or serve me a link) for me to even attempt to answer it. Because I'm not an expert on law either. Hence "let the big brain" figure it out. :-) --Bensin (talk) 15:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

office hours

Another notification, guys; Article Feedback Tool office hours on Friday at 19:00 UTC in #wikimedia-office :). If you can't attend, drop me a note and I'll send you the logs when we're done. We're also thinking of moving it to thursday at a later time: say, 22:00 UTC. Speak up if that'd appeal more :) Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 16:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Jamie Morgan (musician)

Hi! It seems you recently created an unreferenced biography of a living person: Jamie Morgan (musician). The community has decided that all new biographies of living persons must contain a reliable source that supports at least one statement made about the person in the article as per our verifiability policy. Please add references as soon as possible. Thanks! --LaraBot (talk) 00:11, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Reference added. --Bensin (talk) 01:19, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

*poke*

Just a reminder; office hours tonight at 21:00 UTC :). We've got the feedback page deployed on enwiki! We can show it off now :D. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 15:28, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

I'll try to make it but can't say for sure. If I don't I'll catch up by the logs. --Bensin (talk) 18:38, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Granite Hotel for deletion

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Category:Cross-dressing in film and television

Category:Cross-dressing in film and television, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mike Selinker (talk) 23:20, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Justin Bieber on Twitter

Hi. I undid the merge proposal tag. This was resolved earlier. You did not post a new discussion or give any indication why the topic should be revisited on the talk page. If there is a compelling new reason beyond the arguments already offered, then please feel free to put the tags back in. Before doing that, please carefully read the Justin Bieber on Twitter article and figure out how you would merge the content in and prepare an arguement regarding non-independent subject notability. --LauraHale (talk) 08:59, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Hello! The compelling reason for the tags are that there is no consensus and that more editors should voice their oppinion. --Bensin (talk) 13:46, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

The reason you stated is not likely to be good enough. The article was contentious enough during the DYK process, and the merge discussion had to be closed before it could appear on DYK. The discussion was and the article appeared. This means the discussion was pretty much resolved and your argument offers nothing new that has not already been stated. Please do not re-open the arguement unless you have a much stronger argument other than "It was closed wrongly with no consensus." --LauraHale (talk) 20:38, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Anyone is welcome to open any discussion with any argument. As for the strength of the argument, it's for the community, not one single editor, to decide. --Bensin (talk) 05:16, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Be careful Bensin you're likely to be blocked for WP:3RR if not careful..♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:01, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, but I'm aware of the 3RR and I'm not likely to be blocked for breaking it. --Bensin (talk) 05:16, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

AFT5 release coming up - help us design a banner!

Hey all :). First-off, thanks to everyone for all their help so far; we're coming up to a much wider deployment :). Starting at the end of this month, and scaling up until 3 July, AFT5 will begin appearing on 10 percent of articles. For this release we plan on sending out a CentralNotice that every editor will see - and for this, we need your help :). We've got plans, we know how long it's going to run for, where it's going to run...but not what it says. If you've got ideas for banners, give this page a read and submit your suggestion! Many thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 16:31, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Justin Bieber on Twitter for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Justin Bieber on Twitter is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Article Feedback newsletter

Hey all!

So, big news this week - on Tuesday, we ramped up to 5 percent of articles :). There's been a lot more feedback (pardon the pun) as I'm sure you've noticed, and to try and help we've scheduled a large number of office hours sessions, including one this evening at 22:00 UTC in the #wikimedia-office ^connect channel, and another at 01:00 UTC for the aussies amongst us :). I hope to see some of you there - if any of you can't make it but have any questions, I'm always happy to help.

Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 20:49, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Mass bot-generated feedback cheats

AFT5 allows everyone to post feedback without proving that they are human. This gives a possibility of mass bot feedback cheats. Could you consider adding a CAPTCHA check, at least for IPs? Could you also think about blocking blank feedback comments? --Николай95 (talk) 06:49, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Apartmentzauber

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Non-creative list of information is not creative content, see User_talk:Coren/Archives/2011/February#The_Sin_of_Nora_Moran. --Bensin (talk) 22:26, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Einer spinnt immer

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If substantial content is duplicated and it is not public domain or available under a compatible license, it will be deleted. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material. You may use such publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details. (If you own the copyright to the previously published content and wish to donate it, see Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for the procedure.) CorenSearchBot (talk) 19:46, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Non-creative list of information is not creative content, see User_talk:Coren/Archives/2011/February#The_Sin_of_Nora_Moran. --Bensin (talk) 19:48, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Request to restor article Valitor

Hello, Bensin. You have new messages at WP:REFUND.
Message added 09:35, 30 July 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I answered there. --Bensin (talk) 11:00, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation pages

Hello, Bensin. When you moved Michael Cramer to a new title and then changed the old title into a disambiguation page, you may have overlooked WP:FIXDABLINKS, which says:

A code of honor for creating disambiguation pages is to fix all resulting mis-directed links.

Before moving an article to a qualified name (in order to create a disambiguation page at the base name, to move an existing disambiguation page to that name, or to redirect that name to a disambiguation page), click on What links here to find all of the incoming links. Repair all of those incoming links to use the new article name.

It would be a great help if you would check the other Wikipedia articles that contain links to "Michael Cramer" and fix them to take readers to the correct article. Thanks. R'n'B (call me Russ) 13:35, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Hello! Good catch! I have requested an update of the Movepage-moved text so users who move pages will be alerted about this. Previously I've used the Disambig fix tool, but the fix list for the disambig page in question seems empty even though there are may pages linking to it. Is there a problem with the tool? --Bensin (talk) 16:51, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the "fix list" says at the top "This page is updated daily; the last update completed 7 days 1 hour 57 minutes ago", which indicates that there is a problem. In fact, when it updated 7 days ago, it was using data that was then 17 days out of date due to Toolserver replication lag. So the whole thing is a mess. If the Toolserver ever catches up, we'll update all the reports, but I can't say when that might be. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 11:49, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

That's a shame. It's a really valuable tool that saves editors tons of time. I hope the problem is fixed soon. On a happier note, my suggestion for updating the Movepage-moved text was implemented so anyone who moves a page and plans to turn the old article into a disambig page, just like I did, will get a notice to also disambiguate the links that point to it. --Bensin (talk) 13:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Bensin. You have new messages at Koavf's talk page.
Message added 23:07, 22 August 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

—Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:07, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Category:Beauty and the Beast adaptations

Category:Beauty and the Beast adaptations, among other categories which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Mike Selinker (talk) 02:55, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 9

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Done. --Bensin (talk) 10:56, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

This is not a newsletter

This is just a tribute.

Anyway. You're getting this note because you've participated in discussion and/or asked for updates to either the Article Feedback Tool or Page Curation. This isn't about either of those things, I'm afraid ;p. We've recently started working on yet another project: Echo, a notifications system to augment the watchlist. There's not much information at the moment, because we're still working out the scope and the concepts, but if you're interested in further updates you can sign up here.

In addition, we'll be holding an office hours session at 21:00 UTC on Wednesday, 14 November in #wikimedia-office - hope to see you all there :). I appreciate it's an annoying time for non-Europeans: if you're interested in chatting about the project but can't make it, give me a shout and I can set up another session if there's enough interest in one particular timezone or a skype call if there isn't. Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 10:47, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Här får du en bild på en gullig kattunge för att du är så outtröttligt uppmärksam.

Plrk (talk) 23:02, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Asch, tänkte lägga den på commons men jag var visst inne på fel mediawiki. Jaja! Plrk (talk) 23:03, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

My pleasure! :-) --Bensin (talk) 23:16, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

AFT5 newsletter

Hey all :). A couple of quick updates (one small, one large)

First, we're continuing to work on some ways to increase the quality of feedback and make it easier to eliminate and deal with non-useful feedback: hopefully I'll have more news for you on this soon :).

Second, we're looking at ways to increase the actual number of users patrolling and take off some of the workload from you lot. Part of this is increasing the prominence of the feedback page, which we're going to try to do with a link at the top of each article to the relevant page. This should be deployed on Tuesday (touch wood!) and we'll be closely monitoring what happens. Let me know if you have any questions or issues :). Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 14:36, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 26

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Done. --Bensin (talk) 13:21, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

AFT5 office hours

Hey all :). Just a quick note to say we'll be holding office hours in #wikimedia-office at 21:30 UTC this Thursday (the 29th) to show everyone the additional tools we're thinking of working on. All attendence and feedback is appreciated :). Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 14:08, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Richard Nixon talk page notice

I have added a section on the talk page for the article Richard Nixon titled "Section deleted on 13 December 2012." Please share your thoughts on the talk page. Thanks. Mitchumch (talk) 16:49, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Category:Songs written by Joachim Horn-Bernges

I have nominated the above category, which you created, for deletion as there is no relevant supporting article. Cheers. --Richhoncho (talk) 13:57, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be more productive to create such an article instead of deleting the category? Anyway, I have now created a stub article about the subject. --Bensin (talk) 01:40, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

AFT5 newsletter

Hey again all :). So, some big news, some small news, some good news, some bad news!

On the "big news" front; we've now deployed AFT5 on to 10 percent of articles, This is pretty awesome :). On the "bad news", however, it looks like we're having to stop at 10 percent until around September - there are scaling issues that make it dangerous to deploy wider. Happily, our awesome features engineering team is looking into them as we speak, and I'm optimistic that the issues will be resolved.

For both "small" and "good" news; we've got another office hours session. This one is tomorrow, at 22:00 UTC in #wikimedia-office ^connect - I appreciate it's a bit late for Europeans, but I wanted to juggle it so US east coasters could attend if they wanted :). Hope to see you all there! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Okeyes (WMF) (talk • contribs) 14:02, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Refdesk

Hello, Bensin. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Computing.
You can remove this notice at any time.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by They (talk • contribs) 02:25, 7 September 2012 (UTC)