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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Vami IV (talk | contribs) at 04:49, 2 October 2021 (Manual archive of two concluded threads). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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The recent Bugle issue

Somehow the Feb 2020 Bugle got double sent recently. Can we fix this?--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 21:46, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Problems with AutoCheck B assessments

  • @Sturmvogel 66: You've noticed it here, for example. I'm also seeing it as well such as here, but it appears the MilHistBot is having some serious hiccups with failing to detect mostly unsourced material. -Indy beetle (talk) 19:27, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Here is another blatant failure: Dmitry Ivanovich Popov. -Indy beetle (talk) 19:29, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
  • I am also concerned that the amount of human checking is becoming a bit unmanageable, and that a significant proportion of the bot-assessed Bs just shouldn't be being assessed that way. Perhaps Hawkeye could tighten up Milhistbot a bit so we err towards a C rather than a B? If everyone could note what they have assessed the article as when they strike it, that might help to identify weaknesses in the assessing so Hawkeye can tweak the bot appropriately. Thoughts? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:44, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
    • Will do. Obviously, the bot can't really catch unreliable or dated sources or probably bad grammar, but the uncited paragraphs ought to be catchable. I remember there being a couple last month with no section divisions, which should be catchable as b3=no. Hog Farm Talk 01:49, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Hawkeye, it looks like the bot really missed something with [[Christian the Younger of Brunswick]]. No inline citations at all, yet still marked as B class. Hog Farm Talk 01:46, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

@Hawkeye7: - Not to detract from the good work the bot does, but it appears to have had a significant hiccup assessing Coffeyville Army Air Field, which has no inline citations and an outstanding no footnotes tag from 2013. Hog Farm Talk 02:27, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Hmmm. I see the problem. I changed the way newlines are handled and it was no longer performing the check for references correctly. This has now been fixed. But the fix won't affect this month's list. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:51, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for taking a look into this. Ought to make the list a little more manageable next month. Hog Farm Talk 04:19, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

February 2021 Military History Writers' Contest

All done bar handing out the first place award. ( ) Cheers. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:49, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Done (hopefully correctly :p) Eddie891 Talk Work 17:04, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Looks like some A-Class articles probably need reassessed

So looking through the recently-delisted FAs, we'll have to be keeping an eye out for WP:URFA/2020-delisted MILHIST ones that need an A-Class re-review. From a quick look, Structural history of the Roman military, is a old ACR-passed one that just got delisted, and there may be other. Peacemaker was on top of this earlier, but they're busy and not as active. Is anyone else familiar with A-class reassessment processes? WP:MILHIST/ACR just sends you to the coords. I'm not super familiar with the topic for the structural history of the Roman military one, but if someone who is familiar with that thinks it needs A-Class reassessment, like with the FAR, then maybe one should be opened. Hog Farm Talk 01:36, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

G'day, the process is that you have to move the most recent ACR for the article to an archive, then start the ACR process again as normal. For an example, see the move that took place here and then the reappraisal review that took place here, which was set up with these edits on the talk page: [1]. The review page is listed at WP:MHACR as per a normal first time ACR. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 09:24, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
Stuff related to Rhodesia might need to be checked. A few of those got spun through FAR a year or two ago. -Indy beetle (talk) 08:23, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

note from WP:HIST. inviting any input

my compliments to the commanding general, WP:MILHIST! this is the coordinator for WP:HIST. allow me to express my admiration for the vast and highly impressive functionings of your wikiproject. my own wikiproject is relatively less-active in comparison to yours. based on that, I wanted to suggest one or two possible actions.

  • would some of you be willing to serve as part-time liaison or coordinators at WP:HIST? we could only benefit from any input that you might care to provide.
  • If any of you wish to join any existing task forces at WP:HIST. relating to any eras or topics that you currently are working on, or else to set up any new task forces, you are entirely welcome to do so.
  • the sheer range and scope of military history makes it an almost exact parallel for the general field of history itself, since it encompasses every society and every historical period that ever existed. based upon that, any action, input or items that you might care to offer at WP:HIST would be most welcome.

I hope that sounds good to you. please feel free to reply, with any thoughts that you may have. thanks! --Sm8900 (talk) 20:03, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

March contest

Can someone please verify my entries for the March article writing contest so it can finalised. I have updated the tables and done a blurb for the Bugle on a provisional basis. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 09:20, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

I Have archived February's log, but otherwise it looks good. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 09:31, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
I finished checking the last entries, and have award Zawed the second-place bling. I got first, so somebody else will have to handle the other barnstar. Hog Farm Talk 01:59, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
I have belatedly awarded Hog Farm's first place prize. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 10:23, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Battle of Vukovar

Hello.

Experienced editor recommended me to contact editors from this project regarding article Battle of Vukovar. For several months now there's ongoing discussion about inclusion of battle of Vukovar on this list. Editors reached dead end until user started RfC [2]. I thought this would solve things but RfC expired [3] because no one answered. I asked for help before but no one replied [4]. I fear that if no one comments or resolves the issue the entire discussion on talk page of article in question will be archived and removed while the controversial addition to the list will remain. Any advice or help editors from this project offer would be greatly appreciated. Istinar (talk) 10:46, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for nothing I guess. Istinar (talk) 10:36, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Outing a user

Dear coordinators, I would like to draw your attention to this diff, by BlueD954 which appears to be attempting to "out" another editor from their pseudonym edit handle. I have had a number of acrimonious exchanges with BlueD954, so I would much appreciate any guidance you elders might have in this regard, to avoid any further risk of 'outing' or bitter discussion. I will state for the record that the quoting of WP:BURDEN which appears to have drawn this ire was not directed at any particular user. Kind regards Buckshot06 (talk) 07:32, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Can't one of our in-house admins suppress that diff? -Indy beetle (talk) 06:40, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
@Indy beetle and Buckshot06: - I have applied revision deletion. Was gonna do this quite awhile ago, but evidently got distracted by something else. Should likely be oversighted as well, which I cannot do. I believe Mz7 and HJ Mitchell are oversighters, and I think there's a form that can be filled out, as well. Hog Farm Talk 06:53, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
@Hog Farm and Buckshot06:, I've suppressed (oversighted) that diff and the one following one. For future reference these things are usually better handled by email. My contact details are on my user page and the details for the oversight team are at WP:RFO. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 10:44, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
My thanks go to all. Kind regards Buckshot06 (talk) 07:42, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

April contest

I've closed the April contest and awarded the first place bling. I finished second, so I could not hand out the second place personally. Also did do the writeup, as the next issue of the Bugle has not been started. Once it opens up, ping me and I can do the writeup if needed. Hog Farm Talk 03:47, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

I have awarded Hog Farm the Writer's Barnstar for runner up in the contest. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 09:20, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Hey HF, great if you could do that Bugle write-up now, I think it's all we need to go to press... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
Put a short writeup; it was a bit of a slow month for the contest. Hog Farm Talk 22:43, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Help needed with checking the results of the April reviewing drive

Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/April 2021 Reviewing Drive/Worklists - I've started checking some of the submissions here, but would appreciate any help. Hog Farm Talk 16:08, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Hog Farm, what are we checking for? Other than allocating the total points, which I am happy to do. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:05, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
Just making sure a legitimate review happened for each one claimed. Hog Farm Talk 22:06, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
Hog Farm, OK. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:09, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
There seem to be quite a few entries which have been assessed as B class but were never on either the AutoCheck report nor the MilHist Assess page. Eg all bar five of Darwin Naz's. Some entrants have added a category of "Articles manually assessed against B class criteria". I assume that these score no points and so don't need checking? Gog the Mild (talk) 17:10, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/April 2021 Reviewing Drive--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 18:25, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
@WP:MILHIST coordinators: - Should we just take everyone's word for the 1 point ones? I'd forgotten about this, and it's been a month and a lot of the 1 point entries are still unchecked. Hog Farm Talk 23:09, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Yes. We have not previously checked these. SFAIAA. And it is tedious. And probably not the best use of time. Gog the Mild (talk) 09:33, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Linking Pitched Battles to the project

Hi there,

I am a uni student editing the 'Pitched Battle' article for a project. I was wondering if it would be appropriate to link the article to the Military history project? Any help or guidance in this regard would be great. Cheers.

AutoCheck report for May

The following articles were rated as B class by automatic assessment:

MilHistBot (talk) 06:09, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey, I just looked at HSL-class fleet support ship, and as far as I understand things, we don't generally create articles on ships before steel has been cut (or at least that's the precedent I've always seen enforced at WP:SHIPS). In a nutshell, it's a WP:CRYSTAL issue, since these kinds of projects get cut all the time and they aren't all independently notable (in the way that, say, the Boeing–Sikorsky RAH-66 Comanche is). Anyone have any opinions on AFDing this one? Parsecboy (talk) 11:44, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Quarterly reviewing awards

Did I miss it, or did the Jan - March quarterly reviewing awards not happen? Should they have? Gog the Mild (talk) 19:45, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Gog the Mild - The table was posted at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history/Awards#January_to_March_2021_reviewing_tallies; I have no memory as to whether it was processed or not. Hog Farm Talk 22:15, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
They did not. I have approved all but mine. If someone could do the honours, the bot will do the rest. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:51, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
All sorted now. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:54, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi Hawkeye7, I am clearly doing something to upset the bot. The list credits me with 4 FA reviews, but a quick skim gives eight FACs which I both reviewed and were promoted within the quarter. Plus some archived. I seem to have been careful to include "recusal" for at least one edit summary for each of them. Any idea what I am doing wrong? Thanks. (I suspect that the bot has only picked up the four I reviewed in Oct-Dec and were promoted the following quarter and not counted any from Jan-Mar, but that is just a guess.) Gog the Mild (talk) 10:23, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Yes: "recusal" wasn't a keyword the Bot recognised; it expected "recuse", "recused" or "recusing". As it happened I noticed you do this a week ago, and have already told the Bot to accept "recusal" as well. This was after the March reviews were processed, but it will take effect next time. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:55, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Good news everyone. The April to June awards list is now out. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:14, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

AutoCheck report for June

The following articles were rated as B class by automatic assessment:

MilHistBot (talk) 08:21, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

These have all been addressed now below

Steinman's Status as USCG Member

Please consider offering an opinion at Talk:Alan_M._Steinman#Steinman's_Status_as_USCG_Member. --Mox La Push (talk) 03:02, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Help/Advice Please

I added that Seabee Lt. Painter (CEC) was given the job of salvaging the USS California and USS West Virginia at Pearl Harbor. This was deleted: "Undid revision 1035004230 by Mcb133aco (talk) rmv non-notable personnel per wp:shipsnotcrews" I reposted the original material adding that for his leadership Lt. Painter was awarded the first of the 5 Legion of Merit awards. I added a ref for the 120 men from the 16th CB posted to the West Virginia salvage. All of it was deleted, now stating that I was "edit warring" and I had a "COI" because my knowledge base is Seabee history. The information cited was stated without embellishment and footnoted. The edit note also said my editing was poor while what they reposted was verbose. A NPOV would be great Thank You. Mcb133aco (talk) 18:57, 23 July 2021 (UTC)mcb133acoMcb133aco (talk) 18:57, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Your user page indicates in bold text that you’re a public affairs officer for a naval construction unit. That’s why I said you have a COI issue when trying to insert material related to Seabees.
in any event, the material you posted was poorly formatted, with numerous extraneous spaces, refs that don’t match the existing citation style, lack of italics for ship names, etc. Moreover, trivial details about the non-notable lieutenant in charge of salvage operations or the specific time of an accidental explosion aren’t encyclopedic. Parsecboy (talk) 19:57, 23 July 2021 (UTC)


MY USER PAGE STATES in bold print A REQUEST from the PAO officer of NMCB 11 to ME. Is English a second language for you? I also believe your POV is not neutral as the Navy thought Lt. Painter was notable enough to be awarded 5 Legion of Merits. The "time" you cite as trivial has been posted to that article long before I did anyathing The information you deleted from the USS Gansevoort came straight from the USS California and you cited the same "Undid revision 1035004230 by Mcb133aco (talk) rmv non-notable personnel per wp:shipsnotcrews". My opinion of that delete is it was pure vandalism. I also think your response here is inappropriate as I specifically requested an editor with a NPOV and yours clearly is not. Mcb133aco (talk) 20:24, 23 July 2021 (UTC)mcb133acoMcb133aco (talk) 20:24, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

You don’t seem to be aware that another editor reverted your edits before I did. Parsecboy (talk) 21:06, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

AutoCheck report for July

The following articles were rated as B class by automatic assessment:

MilHistBot (talk) 10:34, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

@Sturmvogel 66 and Parsecboy: - I see that a lot of the ship articles in this batch rely very heavily on a web source titled naval-history.net. Is this a reliable source? Hog Farm Talk 18:49, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Good question. Parts of it are entirely reliable as they're transcriptions of Admiralty documents like the official ship's logs from WWI. But I've encountered too many errors in Mason's ship movement histories for WWII to regard it as accurate and will replace it with other sources in every article I work on. I hesitate though to call those non-RS for B-class articles and below as it's about 85% accurate by my reckoning.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 11:29, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
If I see a ship article that overwhelmingly relies on naval-history.net, uboat.net, or anything of the sort, I automatically fail B1. Conway's All the World's Fighting Ships or Jane's Fighting Ships almost always has material for warships that could be used instead, and there's usually some of the much preferable deadtree about many vessels that is out there but may be harder to access or read. -Indy beetle (talk) 17:52, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

AutoCheck report for August

The following articles were rated as B class by automatic assessment:

MilHistBot (talk) 00:50, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

@Hawkeye7: - Is this all for the month? (Does that mean the bot has finished going through all the old stubs to check for reassessment)? Hog Farm Talk 02:01, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
No, it means I accidentally stopped that run. So there are fewer articles this month. Could somebody could have a look at Category:Military history articles with no associated task force? The Bot ignores drafts, but there seems to be several articles in the category that it has trouble associating with task forces, most likely because they are missing categories. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:03, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
@WP:MILHIST coordinators: All Autocheck articles for August have been completed. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 04:39, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
Thanks Vami IV, once these checks have been completed, anyone can manually archive the thread to the most recent archive page (currently 58, see the navbox just below the Discussion heading). The July checks also need to be archived in the same way. If you wouldn't mind doing the honours that would be appreciated! Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:44, 2 October 2021 (UTC)
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