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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Kierzek (talk | contribs) at 15:26, 2 October 2021 (→Lead image: cmt). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Germanocentrism

I understand that the police was German, but it acted also outside Germany, which is rather ignored here. Compare eg. Flemish collaborators and their route to the Gestapo. The translators of the Sipo-SD in Antwerp. 84 Avenue Foch https://www.doew.at/english/memorial-room-for-the-victims-of-the-gestapo-vienna/gestapo-headquarters-vienna Xx236 (talk) 13:39, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Important names in are listed 'Principal agents and officers'. The structure of Gestapo should be rather described in the text.Xx236 (talk) 13:51, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Short history http://www.gelsenzentrum.de/gestapo_staatspolizei.htm Xx236 (talk) 13:59, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The lead describes origins, it should inform about the end, either.Xx236 (talk) 14:04, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In the lead, added about the end with link. Kierzek (talk) 17:03, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Gestapo outside Germany still to be written.Xx236 (talk) 12:06, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Operations in Nazi-occupied territories - the occupations were complicated, eg. the Netherlands was administered by civilians, Belgium militarly. Xx236 (talk) 12:42, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Besides some minor copy editing, the subject matter has been addressed, thanks to Obenritter. And he was correct your tag was not the appropriate one that you originally posted. Kierzek (talk) 12:47, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is a long way between 'adressing' and creating an ecyclopedic description, which has not been done yet.
I do not care if my tag was appropriate or unappropriate. Radical bias of this article was highly unappropriate and I have criticized it, even if everyone was happy with the bias. 'Population ratios, methods and effectiveness' is still about 'German society'. Nacht und Nebel is not even linked here. Xx236 (talk) 08:20, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
'the case for Czechoslovakia'? There was no Czechoslovakia. There was a Protectorate and partially independed Slovakia. Xx236 (talk) 09:26, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As far as English speaking historians are concerned and most of Europe, Czechoslovakia existed as a sovereign state from October 1918, at which time it declared independence from the Austro-Hungarian Empire. It remained as such until its 1993 split into the Czech Republic and Slovakia. YES -- the text is correct as written.--Obenritter (talk) 22:59, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The second phrase "From 1939 to 1945, following its forced division and partial incorporation into Nazi Germany, the state did not de facto exist but its government-in-exile continued to operate." The Gestapo acted according to German opinion, not 'in Czechoslovakia'. Slovak Republic (1939–1945) Xx236 (talk) 12:01, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You do realize that your argument legitimizes the opinion of the Nazis. The actual government (geographically de facto did not exist) although it operated elsewhere. As far as the rest of the world was concerned, it was still Czechoslovakia...unless of course, you prefer the Nazi stance on the matter. Please clarify what your point is precisely and how you think it needs to be rewritten with an academic source fully substantiating the change.--Obenritter (talk) 16:55, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Holocaust should be linked in the lead

Gestapo participated in the Holocaust, not only planning it as Final Solution.Xx236 (talk) 14:49, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Heinrich Muller was at the conference, certainly the Gestapo was involved in both and that is addressed. Kierzek (talk) 12:49, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Holocaust should be quoted directly, not indirectly like here 'During World War II, the Gestapo played a key role in the Nazi plan to exterminate the Jews of Europe.' Xx236 (talk) 08:24, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly how would one "quote" the concept of the Holocaust? Let me educate you for a moment -- a concept cannot be quoted. Please stop trolling this page. If you're here to constructively work on a Wikipedia encyclopedia page, I do not see much evidence of it anywhere.--Obenritter (talk) 23:04, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Trolling'?" "Educate"?: Please stop attacking me. An editor has to cooperate. My crtics was rational and partially accepted by you. which is documented in history of the page, compare "Fixed.". The Germanocentrism of the text is obvious. Gestapo participated in the Holocaust and this participation should be described. Is it really only one phrase " During the Holocaust, Eichmann and his agency coordinated the mass deportation of European Jews to the Nazis' extermination camps."? It means that the Eichmann's agency participated, noone more. Xx236 (talk) 12:20, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/gestapo Xx236 (talk) 13:35, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed.--Obenritter (talk) 14:52, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Suppression of resistance/Homosexuality

As far as I know there was no homosexual 'resistance' network. The Nazis decided to persecute them.Xx236 (talk) 12:46, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Section title fixed. However, "resistance" in the Nazi imagination meant not conforming to the norms of the regime. Listening to British foreign broadcasts for example, was considered "resistance" in Nazi parlance.--Obenritter (talk) 14:55, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

'Official secret police'

Is "official secret police" in the opening sentence not an oxymoron? Surely you have official police and secret police? The Police forces of Nazi Germany article lists (presumably) the official police forces but does not include the Gestapo. The sentence should be changed to "was the secret police of Nazi Germany and in German-occupied Europe." 2001:BB6:4713:4858:D980:4B9C:6A64:6DAB (talk) 10:05, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The abbreviation Gestapo is derived from Geheime Staatspolizei, which translates as secret State police < "state" being the official government organ thereof, so there is nothing wrong with the way this is worded. The other police elements within Nazi society are covered as well, accordingly named. Translations do not always make perfect sense between languages, unfortunately.--Obenritter (talk) 14:00, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Obenritter is correct. Not to mention the fact that the article you cite to 2001:BB6:4713:4858:D980:4B9C:6A64:6DAB is not very well written and certainly is incomplete in its presentation of information to the general reader. It does list the SiPo, which if you click on the link to that article you’ll see that the SiPo was an organization made up of the Gestapo and the Kripo under Heydrich. Kierzek (talk) 14:33, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I just did some needed ce work to the article, Police forces of Nazi Germany. Obenritter, see what you think. It could use some additional work and citations. Kierzek (talk) 14:36, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Kierzek: While I have never come across that article, I will see what I can do when I have time (so little of it these days).--Obenritter (talk) 19:38, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I never knew it existed either until it was mentioned above. There’s not much to it. Cheers, Kierzek (talk) 20:03, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lead image

Preserving here by providing this diff. I've replaced the lead image with the following rationale: "Calling out an (almost) humanitarian operation, the White Buses, in the infobox is an obfuscation". In addition, the term "White Busses" does not appear elsewhere in the article. --K.e.coffman (talk) 15:22, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ok with me. Kierzek (talk) 15:26, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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