Talk:Aceh

NPOV issue, Aceh War

"The Aceh army was rapidly modernized, and Aceh soldiers butchered Köhler (a monument to this atrocity has been built inside Grand Mosque of Banda Aceh).". In the photo next to this passage it states, "General Köhler, commandant of Dutch troops, died from a shot by an Acehnese sniper during the first attack on Aceh.". Being shot by a defending army is not being 'butchered', and then calling the local army repelling an invasion an 'atrocity'. Search for the 'Grand Mosque of Banda Aceh' leads to the Baiturrahman Grand Mosque's page, that has no mention of such a monument. Does this exist? Furbian (talk) 02:39, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

"Use of Sharia" image

I'm not convinced by this image. Every state of Malaysia has "syariah" criminal offences. I wouldn't describe those as purely personal status issues. Also, hasn't Brunei recently officially brought a sharia code into force? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.110.109.210 (talk) 12:53, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

IPA Phonetic pronuncation

I corected this to accurate IPA transcription. Eagleswings 13:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

http://www.conflictrecovery.org/acehetni.htm data made arbitrarily. northern Aceh, Pidie, Pidie Jaya, Southwest Aceh, lhokseumawe, Nagan Raya, Aceh Jaya and many more are not at the entry into the data. so its rate of Aceh freefall his number. data can not be in-charge right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.241.148.136 (talk) 17:43, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Achin Entry

Does anyone want to incorporate Achin? - Mustafaa 07:46, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

There was some pretty racist, archaic stuff in there i.e. Mohammedans and value judgments about the appearance of ethnic groups. Much of the rest of it is somewhat dated as well unless the Dutch still have a garrison there. It would only serve as minor reference for someone willing to write about the history of Aceh. - Gest 17:09, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I've just changed Achin into a redirect; like Gest, there wasn't much there that I felt was worth bringing into the article, although I did update the colonial history a little. If someone was writing a History of Aceh article, and wanted much more detail on the pre-1900 history of Aceh, though, they should look through the old revision history of Achin. - Cdc 01:04, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The White Acehnese

The discussion of the 'blue-eyed' 'fair-skinned' people of West Aceh I simplified to make it more factual. There is no known historical evidence for the Portuguese origin of the Daya Acehnese, despite the widespread legend. (I would be glad to be corrected on this). I travelled through the area before the Tsunami, and whilst it is true that there are unusually many fair-skinned people in the area, there are also fair-skinned people in other parts of Aceh (a former Governor of Aceh, from Aceh Besar, had blue eyes). Eagleswings 13:19, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Your right,their not Portuguese descent,but of Turkish/Ottoman Janissary descent.The Portuguese theory by experts themselves clash with one saying they were colonists stranded,and another saying they are troops of the Moorish Empire.Some say they arrived in the 1400's,another say they arrived in 1509.I dont know how on earth this Portuguese theory came about,but people seem to take the Portuguese theory more seriously I guess is because they are European,whilst the Turks are mostly situated in the Middle East which probably makes people think that it is unlikely them.Well,the Ottoman troops,were also made up of a lot of southeast Europeans and so was their Jannisary troops.Also,the Portuguese are not blue-eyed blondes although you do find a minority of them with it.They are mostly tannish pale skinned with brown hair and eyes.So it doesnt make sense that they are Portuguese when the descendants gained a reputation as being the "blue eyes" of Aceh.Even more so since these people are of Acehnese+European descent,and European light colourings are recessive compared to the tanned black haired Acehnese which would have dissapeared after a couple of generations unless intermarriage with other descendants with high percentage of European blood would have been able to keep the features alive.Another example:the Portuguese descended people of Malaysia themselves dont look European at all.Those who do have recent European ancestors.Also,their Portuguese ancestors arrived in Malacca in 1511 till 1641.

Ethnic groups of Aceh

I have tidied up the section on the languages and ethic groups. Eagleswings 13:20, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Separatist

I wish people would refrain from using "separatist", this is a completely biased term

"Separatist" is the generally accepted and used term elsewhere in the article, other Wikipedia articles, the media, and in the political sphere. The US has had sanctions in place on Indonesia because of their brutal tactics in Aceh.

See: 2004 CIA World Factbook Intro to Indonesia ("armed separatist movements")

Davenbelle 19:22, Jan 8, 2005 (UTC)

Actually members of various independence, or secessionist if you will, movements find the term offensive. People who oppose certain independence movements favour the term, since it gives them an added legitimacy, and/or suggests that said area was always part of whichever state (often not true). Members of independence movements in general should not be confused with violent groups which favour armed insurrection...

I suggest it is only "generally accepted", in that many of the large states of the world have ulterior motives in hanging on to certain territories, and do not wish to give their self-determination movements positive publicity.

This article while mentioning armed insurrections does not completely explain the actual grievances of the self-determination movement in Aceh.

The article also fails to explains the pre-1800 issues in Aceh. Aceh was part of the Kingdom of Atjeh in the middle ages. Those peoples were of indonesian descents while the indonesians of today are of javan descents. Ie: they are descendants of the Kingdom of Mataram which was situated near Jakarta. I'm not saying that it explains today self-determination movement but it does explain a bit the beginning of the article. If you doubt it check the CIA World Factbook. Over 80% of the population is of javan ethnicity. - Mystra007, January 26 2004 Also (opinion follow) Aceh independance isn't like independance in other places. Like Africa or Timor, those independance movements are mainly between remnants of colonization (like in Timor, the dutch settled indonesia but Portugal owned Timor. So today it's kinda a war between indonesian sunni and portugese catholics). While in Aceh it's the remnants of two kingdoms who are still fighting today like they always did

I support the use of term separatist, as it is not considered to have a strong connotation (positive or negative) and has an accurate denotation. Also, please sign your comments. Toad02 (talk) 18:04, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

NPOV in the history section

The history section needs a looking over by someone with knowledge in this area. Various facts strike me as confusing (like who was general-major Köhler?) and many statements are quite POV for example:

Major J.B. van Heutsz, a colonial millitary leader, then wrote a series of articles on Aceh, proclaiming the use of excessive force to subjugate the province. This advice was followed: in 1898 Van Heutsz was proclaimed governor of Aceh, and with his lieutenant, later Dutch Prime Minister Hendrikus Colijn, most of Aceh was (nominally) brought under Dutch control. They charged colonel Van Daalen with breaking remaining resistance. Van Daalen destroyed several villages, killing at least 2,900 Acehnese, among which 1,150 women and children. Dutch losses numbered just 26, and Van Daalen was promoted. By 1904 Aceh was fully under Dutch control.

When news about the brutal acts in Aceh reached the Netherlands there was a public outcry against Van Daalen, and he was discharged. The true account of the Aceh war was never investigated, however. Estimated total casualties on the Aceh side range from 50,000 to 100,000 dead, and over a million wounded.

Sam Spade (talk · contribs) 15:44, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Major Köhler was one of the generals charged with the first expedition against Aceh. He was killed in action. The only source for the number of victims is the book by Paul Van 't Veer.

The name "Aceh"

The name "Aceh" is based on the groups of people:

Arab Chinese European Hindu

as what I heard in Lhokseumawe recently...

If I"m not mistkan, it's not Hindu, but Hindustani - a term which the Malay-speakers used for Indians in yesteryears prior to European Colonisation. --Fantastic4boy 10:35, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

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...Doubtful, since the spelling has changed through time and used to be Atjeh on many maps.

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Well, and why is the language called Achinese?

Hi, I edited some stuff on the Aceh war. The dutch called Aceh "Atjeh" or "Atchin", hence the Atchinese. The aconym above looks unfounded to me. Motorway

re: Arab Chinese European Hindu I also heard this when I worked in Aceh, from an Acehnese. He made it clear this is a word play, and behind the humour is a pride in diverse ethnic origins. Word play, eg imagining a common word is an acronym and creating expansions of it, is a common source of amusement throughout Indonesia.

The Arab-Chinese-European-Hindu explanation of the name 'Aceh' is a modern invention, despites its great popularity in Aceh today. One hundred years ago other explanations were popular, e.g. that the word came from an Indian language. What is interesting is that an explanation is thought necessary for its origin. The name Aceh appears suddenly in the historical record when the kingdom formerly known as Lambri (Chinese Langpoli) was rapidly expanding its power. Why the name of 'Aceh' was adopted is unknown. The expression Achinese is the now out-dated English spelling, which goes back centuries. It is probably based upon a Portuguese source. The correct spelling in English today should be Aceh and Acehnese.Eagleswings 13:07, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

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After some thought and consideration, I created an Indonesia-related topics notice board, along the same lines as other regional notice boards (such as those for Malaysia and Africa). This was established to coordinate efforts to improve Indonesia-related Wikipedia entries. If you've made contributions to Indonesia-related articles in the past, or would like to, please take some time to visit, introduce yourself, and sign the roster.--Daniel June 30, 2005 18:34 (UTC)

The spelling "Acheh" is also common and I believe the official spelling used by GAM

Reverted cut-and-paste move

I've reverted a cut-and-paste move from here to Nanggroe Aceh Darussalam. For one thing, it was done incorrectly; the way to do that is to use the "move" button, not by just copying the text, because cut-and-pasting loses the extensive revision history. Also, an informative edit summary is critical when you do something like that! Anyway, I could have fixed that, but I think Aceh is the correct title for this article; while it is not its current full official name, it is by far the most commonly-used name both in English (which is what matters here - see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English)) and in Indonesian, and is also the name the place has been known as during most of its long history. CDC (talk) 16:19, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with this. Nanggroe Aceh Darussalam is essentially a political term, meaing 'the Nation of Aceh Darussalam'. It evokes Aceh's glorious past. Eagleswings 13:11, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

History of Aceh and Recent Events

Added history of Aceh since independence and recent event of reconstruction and governor election. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arfan1629 (talk • contribs) 12:05, 27 January 2007 (UTC).

History of Aceh : Aceh Part of Kedah or Kedah part of Aceh?

Added link to wiki articles about Pasai Kingdom of Aceh.

Please elaborate more about the tombstone of Ratu Aceh (Queen of Aceh) dated 1380 CE, it seems to be the tomb of Queen of Pasai. If that is so the then new question arises concerning Kedah and Pasai, who conquers who?

Moreover, the mentioning of the phrase 'Han Siamese' in the previous version of the article is intriguing. Are there any link between Acehnese rulers with Han dynasty of China (2nd century BC to 2nd century CE) and Siamese rulers of Thailand? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arfan1629 (talk • contribs) 10:17, 27 February 2007 (UTC).

GAM flag

222.124.123.235 12:59, 2 June 2007 (UTC) I completely disagree with the display of separatist GAM flag here, for this flag has been prohibited according to the Helsinki Instrument of Surrender. Displaying this flag in Aceh today is considered a criminal offence, not even the ex-rebels can show this flag. Showing the flag is tantamount to showing the Nazi flag in the Germany section.

Wikipedia is not censored, and no matter where this flag may (or may not) be illegal, it is perfectly legal to put it here. And your Swaistika/Germany analogy is nonsense. sorry Merbabu 13:03, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Until now (2015), Aceh Flag as a province is still in dispute. Helsinki Instrument of Surrender clearly prohibited Aceh flag uses GAM Flag or most part of it. In GAM anniversary frequently (original) GAM Flag are used, but Central Government certainly prohibited it. Proposed Aceh Flag is always refused by Central Government, because it is always a minor change of GAM Flag. There are many different opinions about it. Low level ex-combatan, high level ex-combatan, elite political, low level people in many different areas are all have different opinions, in fact GAM is not so solid when they are not as combatan. Please also consider that several area in Aceh are not support GAM and nowadays they are harder speak out. I suggest GAM Flag is stated as GAM Flag and Aceh Province Flag is 'blank' Flag with notation 'Aceh Province Flag is still in disputed'. Maybe it is rather ridiculous. Or no flag at all and only stated 'Aceh Province Flag is still in disputed', because it is article about Aceh Province.Gsarwa (talk) 13:53, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Quote removal

HJRO requested to remove a quotation that (s)he said that the quote came from different war. As given by his/her edit: [2], I removed this block:

---

The letters which Colijn wrote at the time to his wife make no effort to hide the atrocities in which he was personally involved:

" I have seen a mother carrying a child of about 6 months old on her left arm, with a long lance in her right hand, who was running in our direction. One of our bullets killed the mother as well as the child. From now on we couldn't give any mercy, it was over. I did give orders to gather a group of 9 women and 3 children who asked for mercy and they were shot all together. It was not a pleasant job, but something else was impossible. Our soldiers tacked them with pleasure with their bayonets. It was horrible. I will stop reporting now."

Colijn's wife wrote in the margin : " How terrible !!" ---

— Indon (reply) — 08:21, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

References

No history before Islam?

The intro and the history section both give the impression that there was no history before the coming of Islam. That can't be true, can it? Pfly (talk) 08:33, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, you're right. But, Aceh pre-islam history only little known. Mon Tasik (talk) 05:06, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Aceh is the center of Shi'a Islam in the Indonesia

I am Acehnese man and live in Banda Aceh. I found this sentence: Aceh is also the center of Shi'a Islam in the country, please the source! That's wrong. Acehnese people are sunni. Si Gam Acèh (talk) 06:58, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

New official name

The official name Nanggroe Aceh Darussalam was renamed to Aceh after Order of the Governor of Aceh Number 46 Year 2009 about How to using official Aceh name and title of Apparatus of Aceh Government within Official Documentation System in the Government of Aceh since 7 April 2009 (Peraturan Gubernur Aceh Nomor 46 Tahun 2009 tentang Penggunaan Sebutan Nama Aceh dan Gelar Pejabat Pemerintahan dalam Tata Naskah Dinas di Lingkungan Pemerintah Aceh tertanggal 7 April 2009). And please refer to this link (new official website of the Government of Aceh). So every terms Nanggroe Aceh Darussalam should be change to Aceh only. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Reindra (talk • contribs) 15:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Sharia in Aceh

This site: [Aceh] talks about the Sharia in Aceh.Agre22 (talk) 16:30, 19 December 2009 (UTC)agre22

Please add images

There are hundreds of images of Aceh from TROPENMUSEUM. They are mostly from 1900- 1950s uploaded to the commons [3]. Many could illustrate this page. Descriptions are mainly in Dutch. --YakbutterT (talk) 01:02, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

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History

-need to add information about history before entry of Islam.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.161.118.184 (talk • contribs)

tsunami death estimates

Bit of a morbid subject, but, the top of the article says approx 170,000 indonesians perished... the actual tsunami section recounts approx 240,000 deaths in Aceh alone. So, is that 70,000+ foreign nationals killed in the region, or just one/other/both estimates being wildly adrift? 193.63.174.11 (talk) 09:01, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't think 240K were killed in Aceh alone. That sounds like the whole total tsunami toll. Rather, from memory, the Aceh deaths numbered 170K from memory. A WP:RS or two would help. --Merbabu (talk) 10:03, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Sources

• Poer, Blontank. "Acehnese let out anger with poetry at Literature Night." The Jakarta Post. April 19, 2002.

WhisperToMe (talk) 05:23, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Images

This article is lack of images. So I add the images and every image is related to its subtopic. These are images with its subtopic below:

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  The beginnings of Islam in Southeast Asia
• 
  Sultanate of Aceh
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  Aceh War
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  Islamic rebellion
• 
  Tsunami Disaster
• 
  Governors of Aceh
• 
  Ethnic and cultural groups

While images which are related to Insurgency in Aceh, there are only 2 images:

• 
  Free Aceh Movement
• 
  The peace agreement and first local elections

So, Aldonymous why you warned me with so arrogant??? Don't you see with your eyes how many images which are related with Insurgency in Aceh. -- Si Gam (talk) 11:54, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

first... fix your English... second, mass adding of images will decrease the quality of article...Ald™ ¬_¬™

First, fix your letter case and punctuation marks. Second, my English isn't your business. Third, I don't see that's a mass adding. Compare with other article, for example Indonesia. -- Si Gam (talk) 14:35, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Sejarah Kabupaten Aceh Timur dari Masa Kolonial Hingga Masa Kemerdekaan (History of East Aceh Regency Period Colonial Until Period Independence)more by Agus Budi wibowo

http://www.academia.edu/3698432/Sejarah_Kabupaten_Aceh_Timur_dari_Masa_Kolonial_Hingga_Masa_Kemerdekaan_History_of_East_Aceh_Regency_Period_Colonial_Until_Period_Independence_

Rajmaan (talk) 22:01, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

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UNDUE violations

This article suffers from a WP:UNDUE focus on corporal punishment in Aceh. So much as so that outside of the history section, that constitutes most of the content. Its more than Aceh's economy, its people, its culture and its geography. We should probably summarize it under the section on "Law" and then focus the rest of the article on what it should be focused on.VR _talk 16:26, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Aceh - an "Islamic state"?

I just noticed this edit (marked as minor) whereby the infobox now notes Aceh as an Islamic state.

What are the board's thoughts on that one? Does the implementation of Sharia Law thereby make a state an Islamic state? (Like many things in infoboxes) there is nothing in the main article along these lines. --Merbabu (talk) 04:20, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Indonesia's constitution does not recognise a "state" within a sovereign state. Aceh is only an autonomous province. Bluesatellite (talk) 04:34, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Split the article

When I read this article, somehow I felt that this article was too focused on its history. It may be necessary to divide this article into the History of Aceh, so that this article can focus more on its geography (as with other geography-themed articles). --Tensa Februari (talk) 07:37, 5 March 2021 (UTC)