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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by SineBot (talk | contribs) at 14:12, 1 November 2021 (Signing comment by 202.142.67.248 - "→Shami: Help"). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Thank you, DaxServer, I am really enjoying editing after creating my account.--Soutut (talk) 08:10, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If in doubt, visit Wikipedia:Teahouse, many friendly and experienced editors will help you :) — DaxServer (talk to me) 09:26, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]


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Happy editing! No Great Shaker (talk) 09:50, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, No Great Shaker (talk), I am really enjoying editing after creating my account.--Soutut (talk) 08:10, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Shami

There is a discussion on the talk page. A number of them. At least two experienced editors have suggested that there is a massive amount of over-detail and recentism on the page and that there is a significant issue with the article essentially being written as a fan-blog. We can't, for example, have stuff written in the way it has been in the Punjab section - that's simply inappropriate for Wikipedia. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:02, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Then the Punjab Kings section should be written in a neutral point of view and the whole removed section should be rewritten in that case. Otherwise, if the continuous removal of the article goes on without rephrasing it, then the article will become a nutshell. So I think, whenever a section is removed, it should be rewritten before deleting another section. Waiting for your reply.Soutut (talk) 09:08, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm current doing that. One section at a time because it's too big to deal with it all at once. The article was absolutely terrible by the way - hideous recentism and over-detail and the worst fan-boy cruft I've ever seen in any cricket article. Things like "taking to the twitters" and saying three times that his 100th wicket was Guptil are just horrible and show a lack of intention by many editors to actually read the article.
I'm not done yet - I'll finish it later, but need to do something else in the meantime. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:30, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The section on bowling style is at least in part a blatant and obvious copy and paste job from CricInfo - the "unique" section, for example, is a word for word C&P. This makes it a clear copyright violation that we cannot include. I'll get around to re-writing it hopefully over the next few days to actually summarise. I don't know if I'll be able to do that today or tomorrow, although that's possible. But it'll get done - don't fret. The section was my idea after all... Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:47, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Good afternoon BST (As per IST), I know creating the section was your idea. Ok, I will surely wait for a next few days for you to rephrase the section. I know it will take time. I shall not do any further edit on that section of the article in the next few days. By the way, after your continuous removal, the article has become very short and wee. Also, I don't know why you have removed the paragraph regarding India's first pink ball match in the Domestic career of Shami. Anyway, I would like to request you to elaborate the article in the other sections as well where it needs, of course, in a neutral point of view. Again, 2021 IPL will end inside this week. So, you may add Shami's performance in 2021 IPL while doing the edit. I'd suggest you to elaborate the ODI, Test and T20 sections too if possible. So, I think it will be better for you if I and other users don't edit the article further in the following days. I hope you will overhaul the whole article. Lastly, I'd recommend you to rewrite the article section by section. For eg, in day 1, you may edit the introduction part, in the next day, you may edit the Early Life and Career part. In this way, oneday, the article will become standard and exemplary in the true sense of the term. I'll be glad if you give me the job to edit any section of this article. I will give my 100% while doing it. Ok, BSK, this is all for now. Looking forward to hearing from you. Thank you. --Soutut (talk) 10:29, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

P.S- The same message is also posted in your talk page to draw your attention.

Which is where I've replied. Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:47, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Please read WP:MOS. And then act on it. You're not getting close to what we need, let alone doing close to a formal style ("a whopping XXX crore" etc... - btw, no one in the world outside of India has a clue what a crore is or whether that's a lot or not - try using a conversion technique to show the amount in USD as well - that way anyone else in the world has got a chance of understanding what you're writing about).
The article needs cutting and sourcing any editions carefully, using a summary style. You're not doing that. You need to. Blue Square Thing (talk) 15:25, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is USD the universal unit? May be. I promised that I would follow and abide by your advice. I will keep my word of honour. The amount in INR will be converted into USD and the controversial word (I don't know why) 'whooping' will be removed in my following edit. I don't know whether you have gone through my edit before reverting it. But if you have read it minutely, then you should have noticed that I have not restored the whole removed part. The controversial and fan-cruft sentences were removed like- 'that spell of Shami will be vividly reminisced...', 'indisputably the best ever IPL season of Shami...', 'provided him rebirth' to name a few and sources were cited at necessary places. I simply can't understand what is going wrong with my edits in this particular article, why you are constantly and persistently reverting it. I have overhauled and elaborated the article Ishan Porel without any notable troubles. Just as you mentioned the requirement of the conversion of the monetary unit, you should mention the other corrections required in my talk page. Then, I will take the responsibility of correcting and where necessary, rephrasing those. What is happening now, is nothing but a edit-war in the true sense of the term. You know no one wishes to be a part of it. Do you? Ha,ha! Good luck, Blue Square Thing (talk). --Soutut (talk) 08:33, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"whopping" is MOS:PEACOCK, that's why — DaxServer (talk) 10:33, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I see, DaxServer (talk). Thank you for clarifying and discussing the matter. The word is now removed and the monetary unit is fixed. I shall be glad if you point out other such errors in the article we are speaking of, so that, they may be corrected and fixed. Gracias. --Soutut (talk) 12:23, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]


The stuff you're adding remains massively over-detailed - you're completely ignoring the idea of writing in summary style. Look at Adam Gilchrist - a featured article. It's FA for good reasons. Read it. See what it does? Blue Square Thing (talk) 17:01, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Soutut ICYMI, "FA" means Wikipedia:Featured articles - they are identified as one the best works of WP editors. — DaxServer (talk) 17:36, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gracias, but I already know the fact.


Example paragraph

I think it might be helpful to point out exactly where the problems lie by taking a single paragraph as an example. This was, I think, the first in your version of the IPL section.

Shami made his Indian Premier League (IPL) debut for Kolkata Knight Riders in 2011 but mainly warmed the bench for them.
  • Don't say mainly warmed the bench - tell us how many matches he played in perhaps, or find an article that talks about him playing on a few matches.
  • There would have been three seasons he was at Kolkota, yes? So how many games did he play over that time?
  • How old and experienced was he when he was first signed? Does that explain him playing onlt a few matches?
  • The infobox says he played for Kolkota only in 2013. This is perhaps the key to this section - I assume that he was signed to some form of development contract but didn't play for the first two seasons and then made a couple of appearances in 2013? We can find a way to say that - if there are sources which support it.
He was signed by Delhi Daredevils for the 2014 season but played only a few matches in that season.
  • Again, perhaps how many matches? Or an article? Or get some flow in play "after signing for Delhi in 2014 he played only occasionally in his first season..." or similar
  • Why was he released by Kolkata? He was playing international cricket at this point - why was he suddenly signed by another team?
He was retained by the franchise in 2015 but did not play a match that season before becoming a regular in the side.
  • Why did he not play a match - I think he was injured wasn't he? And when exactly did he become a regular? 2016?
In the first season with Delhi Daredevils in 2014, Shami played 12 matches and took 7 wickets. An injury ruled out him for the entire next season.
  • Ah, so why is this here? It belongs a sentence ago. 12 matches seems a lot for me - you said he only played a few matches. 12 seems a lot to me. What proportion is that? A quarter? A half? 10%?
  • From a MOS point of view, the 7 should be a word.
  • You're linking Delhi Daredevils twice within three sentences. That's an obvious WP:OLINK issue that you have to address from the outset
In the both 2016 and 2017 IPL, he featured in only 8 matches and took 5 wickets.
  • "In the both" doesn't make sense in English. "In both" does.
  • Numbers lower than ten need to be words in general. Not always, but in general that's the rule.
  • He played in 8 matches each season? And took five wickets each season? Yes? That's what you mean?
  • We said above that he became a regular in the side after playing in a few matches in 2014. Which turned out to be 12 matches. How is playing 8 in each of these two seasons becoming a regular then?
  • None of this to here has any references associated with it
After being retained in the 2018 IPL Mega Auction by 3 crores INR, he managed only 3 wickets in the 4 games he played.
  • Again, he's a regular now isn't he? How come he only played in four matches?
  • I'm not sure we need X matches and Y wickets for every season. We might when notable things happen - say he only played in five matches over three seasons - but I don't think we need it all the time. It's not the most important part of his career in any sense - T20 isn't exactly a bowlers paradise most of the time
  • The mega auction needs some form of context. Was this where every team had to re-bid for all of their players? Is there a link? Does M and A need to be capitalised?
  • 3 crore INR is meaningless to 90% of readers of English language wikipedia
Although Shami was retained by Delhi ahead of the mega auction 2018...
  • You've referenced this using a wikipedia article. You absolutely can not do that. You can link to it, but you absolutely can't reference with it
  • Isn't this what you just said in the previous sentence? Why repeat it?
...and he too became one the main bowlers of the franchise, but eventually he was released ahead of 2019 season.
  • "and he too" doesn't make sense here unless you mean to compare him to someone else. "he became" might, but are you really saying that he only became a main bowler in 2018 (see above for the "regular" query)?
  • Why was he released?
  • None of this is referenced - who says he became a main bowler?

And that's one paragraph. The IPL section you want to use has 12 paragraphs, although some of them are much shorter than this. Blue Square Thing (talk) 17:28, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Blue Square Thing (talk) 17:28, 29 October 2021 (UTC), thanks for explaining the matter. I have noticed that you have started overhauling the article. I think you will revamp the ODI, T20 and Test Career sections soon. I will add some stuff and sources after your edits, if necessary. I think now the IPL section is quite well written. Thank you for this. Anyway, kindly view the talk page of the article where I have put forward my arguments. You too should put forward yours.[reply]

Blue Square Thing (talk), I can't understand why you have removed the sub-section titles under IPL section. You should have changed the title rather than removing it. Most importantly, the removal of the interview of Shami after defending 5 runs in the Super over and the report on his 50th PBKS wicket remain unexplained. Please explain me the reason. Anyway, I shall add some missing informations on the article and rewrite the section removed due to copyright issues in my own words. If my edit contains flaws, you should correct those. Please don't not revert my whole edit. Thank you.

They didn't seem to fit with the length of the section. I'm considering whether it might be useful to have one sub-head ("Move to Punjab" or similar), but the first one isn't really needed at all - it flows better without it. Try the second one perhaps, but I can't think of the best way to word it. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:22, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ok Blue Square Thing (talk), I shall try but before that please explain me the reason behind your removal.

From my reading I would say his white ball game really took off in 2015 in the World Cup, not in 2019 when he moved to Punjab. Obviously he got fit again in 2019 as well, but I'm not sure I agree with the way you had that subhead worded previously.
Can I direct you to my section at the bottom of this page btw. It's really helpful to do those things on talk pages. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:28, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why not, my dear? Of course, you can. --Soutut (talk) 09:29, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

An editor has been continuously reverting my edit to this article. As I have found you to be one of the active editors of the article, I want you to intervene on my behalf. You can grasp the matter by going through the page history. Thank you in advance for helping. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.142.67.248 (talk) 14:11, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Virat Kohli Captaincy section

As I mentioned above, why you reverted the this section. You have to discuss on talk page before doing Major revert. Whole content I added after providing sources. Virat Kohli is caption of India and the article doesn't have a section on captaincy. I suggest you to undo your revert. Newton Euro (talk) 10:19, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is already quite vast. A template regarding it is placed at the headline of the article. So, I think, we should concentrate on summarising and shortening the article, rather than unnecessarily elaborating it further. The section I removed was a mere repetition of the past sections only to expand the already over-detailed article with some hyperbole and superfluous materials. I don't have to undo it because you had reverted my edit, which was also revertedSoutut (talk) 08:54, 26 October 2021 (UTC) by another one. You again reverted his edit. Anyway, thank you.[reply]

October 2021

Copyright problem icon Your edit to Ishan Porel has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. Moneytrees🏝️Talk/CCI guide 17:14, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I shall rewrite the removed part, of course, in my own words.Soutut (talk) 08:07, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Some talk page things

Hi.

So, you'll notice that I've indented my comments when they are replies to you. This is something we use to make the flow of conversation - who is responding to whom - clear. You do this by using a colon (:) in front of each line you indent. If you add two colons (::) it indents it further as well.

You can also use bullet points at times by using an asterisk (*). You can indent these like this :*

When you're trying to attract another user's attention try using {{ping|Blue Square Thing}} or {{u|Blue Square Thing}} instead of the full User thing - that works better I think.

And don't forget to use four tildes (~~~~) to sign your posts. It really helps. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:26, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gracias. I will surely try to follow your advice. Soutut (talk) 09:29, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Use the colons to indent rthen :-) You were replying, so use one colon up there ^. If you were to reply to this, you'd use two colons... Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:14, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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