Talk:Water intoxication

Update on the Jennifer Strange death

"Sacramento Sheriff John McGinness, alarmed by audio recordings obtained by The Bee of the radio show contest that may have led to the death of 28-year-old Jennifer Lea Strange, has directed homicide detectives to look into whether a crime was committed during the water-drinking contest sponsored by the "Morning Rave" show on The End radio station (KDND, 107.9)." From here: http://www.sacbee.com/102/story/109231.html Here is a link to some audio clips from the show in question: http://www.sacbee.com/enwiki/static/newsroom/kdndslides/

Current Fatality

2007-01-14 Water intoxication fatality: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/13/water.intox.ap/index.html

Misleading Article

While I truly understand WHY the article is written this way, it may need to be said that this condition is EXTREMELY rare, because I have had many people tell me that when they discovered this condition (including myself initially) they became extremely nervous because of how much water they drink. It isn't that rare! Read the first link on the article page: http://www.hhp.ufl.edu/faculty/pbird/keepingfit/ARTICLE/toomuchwater.htm and you will see that 29% of Ironman finishers suffer from it.

At the very least, it should be mentioned that the quantity of water required to cause this condition is tremendous, and not merely slightly above average consumption. However, I'm certainly no expert, so I don't want to do this. -- Ubergenius 19:38, 22 December 2006 (UTC) Apparently it doesn't take that much: 900ml/hr sustained according to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11732457&dopt=Abstract.

84 year old man

An 84-year old male patient recovering from the removal of a small polyp in his bladder was told to drink 16 8-ounce glasses of water a day a couple of days after the procedure in order to help in "flushing out" blood remaining in the bladder. Can this lead to water intoxication under otherwise healthy conditions? -- 206.113.26.20

Hmmm, that's 3.8 litres per day. A person with two healthy kidneys can rid themselves of about 1.5 litres per hour at maximum filtration. So, I think he will be perfectly fine, provided he spreads the water intake over his whole (waking) day and also provided he has a healthy diet with normal sodium intake. -- FP 00:40, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)

Do we assume our 84-year old male patient to have two healthy kidneys? Jimp 15:31, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, it's normal to assume healthy kidneys. In any case, 3.8 litres of water per day is far too small to present any risk of water intoxication if it is not taken in one gulp. Agateller 01:24, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Why are we speculating on something that amounts to giving medical advice? Do any of the above responses have qualifications to answer the initial question? Let's see some credentials.

How much water intoxicates?

how much water does it take to get water intoxication?Star2288 10:34, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

That depends on body weight and several other factors... theres no real quick answer.  ALKIVAR™ 18:04, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

The usual amount is in the range of litres of water, taken over a relatively short period (minutes, or an hour or two). Outside of some special circumstances (people exerting themselves and sweating profusely for many hours), water intoxication usually only occurs in people who are mentally disturbed and compulsively drink tremendous amounts of water (gallons). It's a rare condition. The healthy body's ability to deal with a large intake of water is considerable. Agateller 01:33, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I like numbers... Check out this abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11732457&dopt=Abstract

Perhaps the lethal dose for infant's, men and women should be listed. As found on http://chem.sis.nlm.nih.gov/chemidplus/jsp/common/ChemFull.jsp?MW=18.0148, it is 333gm/kg orally (TDLo) for infants, 42.86gm/kg orally (TDLo) for men, and 180gm/kg/28H rectally (LDLo) for women. Earthsound 20:29, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Earthsound, if you're planning to use the above link as a citation in the article proper, then you should be aware that it only leads to a "page expired" message. Also, if we're going to supply info regarding the lethal water dosage for men, women, and children, then it should all be via the same administrative route--i.e., not an oral dose for men and children but a rectal dose for women--since otherwise you can be sure that some inattentive reader is going to get confused. Buck Mulligan 00:42, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

This article was the first I'd heard of W.I.

...and it scared the hell out of me when I first read it. Drinking large amounts of water has been a major factor in my weight loss (50 lbs. in ~ 6 months). I carried around a 32-ounce water cup like it was a growth on my hand. I'm still here, so I guess I'm doing something right. JMD4LSU 22:44, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

No worries, scared me too but assuming you get plenty of electrolytes, the only way water can hurt you is if the kidney can't process it fast enough. Of course, I happen to think the kidney will adapt... Tyciol 21:00, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Water intoxication is extraordinarily rare. It occurs on rare occasions in people who drink a great deal of water over a prolonged period to replace water lost in sweat, vomit, or diarrhea, and it can also occur (even more rarely) in people who drink a tremendous amount of water (many litres) over a short period and are not perspiring heavily. Overall, the risk of water intoxication has been dramatically exaggerated in recent years. It's really not something that should be high on the list of anyone's worries. Agateller 01:26, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not that rare! http://www.hhp.ufl.edu/faculty/pbird/keepingfit/ARTICLE/toomuchwater.htm

Major rewrite by Technopilgrim

I made quite a few changes to the article to clear up various errors, expand some information, and remove some irrelevant material. Some comments on the edits:

• I removed the mention of pulmonary edema -- as far as I know this is not related to water intoxication. If you know otherwise, please put the information back along with a reference.
• I placed more emphasis on sodium levels to clarify the entire mechanism
• The section on urine color doesn't belong on the water intoxication page. Urine color is not a good indicator of water intoxication because sodium in the urine is colorless. In theory you could have any color urine and have water intoxication, or not have water intoxication.
• I've added info on the relationship of water intoxication to diabetics and psychiatric patients to complement the good information on atheletes and drug users already in the article. I've added headers to make things more organized.
• added notes to medical journal sources

technopilgrim 23:11, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Removed the line about intoxication and being light headed - intoxication scientifically means being poisoned by a substance, not in relation to the verb "being intoxicated" ie by alcohol - schoolboy error, in my opinion - Gruffy 15:51, 17 May 2006

Regarding the picture

The caption given declares that the glass is half full; surely many may view it as half empty, an equally valid opinion, therefore the current caption does not conform to wikipedia rules on NPOV. -Unknown

The new way is pedantic and seems like a complex joke. I would prefer it to say a glass of water, and so it shall. 66.41.66.213 11:57, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the picture of a glass of water adds nothing to the article. I personally think it should be removed. --Burbster 17:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The picture doesn't contribute anything. --WillNL 10:53, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Merge with Hyponatremia?

I'm just wondering, these things sound almost identical. I suppose if you had hyponatremia as an imbalance of salts, and water intoxication is just one way to get it, it makes sense, but then what are the others? Tyciol 21:00, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

There are other ways to develop hyponatremia: in kidney disease, through mismanagement of electrolyte balance in patients receiving TPN or NG nutrition, in disease states producing profuse vomiting or diarrhea, etc. Water intoxication is a consequence of hyponatremia, not a cause, but usually when people speak of water intoxication, they mean specifically hyponatremia that results from consuming too much hypotonic fluid in too short a time. Note that other types of electrolyte imbalance can occur as a result of overconsumption of water, too, but they are even more rare. Lately it seems that people have developed a bit of a fixation on water intoxication; it's actually very rare. Agateller 01:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

should i be worried?

i enjoy distending my stomach to huge proportions by drinking large amounts (two litres at least) of water should i be worried? 2 liters per day is a recommended amount for certain activities and climates. It is not excessive.

I am no expert at all, so if you die its not my fault. First, why do you enjoy doing that? Considering why you do it may be something you want to think about. On a positive note, it is a better habit than drinking 2 liters of beer to disentend the stomach haha. If you really enjoy this, what about either A) mixing some gatoraid in with it to get some electrolytes, or even taking an electrolyte pill or eat like a salty (NaCl) bannana (K+) prior to doing it. Just something to think about. Rjkd12 16:03, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

As with the above, the best thing to do is to eat something. Try a banana and french fries, or a sub from Subway. ~ PHDrillSergeant...§ 18:50, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Toxic?

"Water itself is not toxic to the body in any amount."

Water is not toxic but can kill you if you drink to much of it. So what does "toxic" mean?

This is arguing semantics. I kinda agree with you. On a similar note I think that carbon monoxide shouldn't be considered "Toxic" because it doesn't actually hurt you, it makes it so you can't get any oxygen and you suffoccate. Since it doesn't cause any necrosis or doesn't directly damage tissue, like an acid or fire or something, I don't know if I personally condier it toxic. Granted, I am in the minority and most consider things like carbon monixide toxic and water potentially toxic considering it can kill you by causing an imbalace. Maybe since the "toxic" effects of water are secondary (the water doesn't hurt you, it leeches electrolytes from you) it maybe isn't as toxic. What was the question again? haha. Rjkd12 16:03, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Redundancy

After reading this articly, I came to the conclusion that about 50% of the article summarises in: "Drinking an excessive ammount of water in a short period to rehydrate are at risk of water intoxication." Every paragraphs in the article contain this idea at least once, those could be removed to make it ligther and focus more on what really causes the problem (which is already explained in the first paragraph anyway), and not repeat the general idea. TiCPU 14:55, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Inappropriate subheadings and/or language

"All the creatures in this sexy world"? Come on, that doesn't belong in an encylopedia. This is a case of vandalism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 161.200.255.162 (talk) 01:51, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

OJ Simpson?

Looks like a case of vandalism in the first paragraph:

"Body fluids contain electrolytes (particularly sodium compounds, such as sodium chloride) in concentrations that must be held within very narrow limits, according to OJ Simpson. Water enters the body orally..."

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.161.184.124 (talk) 21:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

Hold your wee contest

The text there is copyvio. I don't want to add the template, as it's HUGE, so I'll let someone fix it before adding it. - JNighthawk 04:15, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

ahh yes i heard of this hold your pee for a wii contest. but i dont think it will postable due to the fact that its a event and this article seems to be more for discribing water intoxicationMaverick423 22:16, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Mineral concentration

Water intoxication is a matter of electrolytic dilution. Water is not literally a toxin, it acts passively in that, in excess it will dilute the necessary minerals needed in the body. Theoretically if you added the necessary supplements (salt, magnesium, etc) to your water, you could drink much more that of distilled water without effect.

Conversely, salt (NaCl) is fatal in a high enough dose--and lower than you might think.

The point is that water is generally a benign substance, but consuming anything in gross excess is almost always a grievous error in judgment (i.e. massively stupid). 67.185.99.246 01:16, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Water isn't that benign. Its the universal solvent. Pure water will eat away at all metals. Regardless though, I still think it is toxic. As I said above, is carbon monoxide toxic? It doesn't specifically hurt you, but it does bind your hemoglobin so O2 cannot. You die from it. According to the American Heritage Dictionary Toxic is defined as:

"1. Of, relating to, or caused by a toxin or other poison: a toxic condition; toxic hepatitis. 2. Capable of causing injury or death, especially by chemical means; poisonous: food preservatives that are toxic in concentrated amounts; a dump for toxic industrial wastes. See Synonyms at poisonous."

So, would you consider electrolytes "toxic" then since its their alteration which kills? Is something that paralyzes muscles toxic if the cause of death is an inablility to move the ribcage in order to breath?

Lastly, what doses of NaCl cause death? Healthy kidneys can get easily get rid of any NaCl up to extremely high doses. Higher doses that you'd think. Rjkd12 21:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Generous or narrow margin?

With the recent, high-profile fatality, I read this article. But I found a problem: “Physiology...” says that there are narrow margins, but “Prevention…” says that there is a very generous margin. What they seem to say (in isolation) seems correct to someone not versed in medicine. But someone who knows this subject needs to examine this apparent contradiction. Val42 18:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Pure H2O Experiment

Ok i heard a long time ago that Scientest were testing if pure H2O (just hydrogen and oxygen atoms combined nothing else) is good for the body. the results were shocking that it had the exact opposite effect of water with all the dirt and stuff that we place in it. it instead robbed the subject of essental nutrients and stuff and merged with the pure H2O in the blood stream. the person testing had to be taken to the hospital and everything ( an experiment gone wrong) anyways will this also fall under water intoxication or is this another kind of situation?? also how is it possable to purify water like that *if its possable*? Maverick423 15:01, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, first off, don't add it to the article if you just heard it someplace and don't have a citation for it. That aside, there doesn't seem to be any contradiction between the study you heard about and what the article itself already says about extremely high water intake. The point in either case is really that too much water and not enough salt creates a salt imbalance in the system, which can kill you if the imbalance is dramatic enough. Think of salt-water poisoning, but in reverse (as I believe the article itself states). Again, the point isn't so much about water per se, as it is about what effect a dramatic alteration of salt levels has on the human body. Since we're mostly water to begin with, drinking a ton of water is going to have an effect on these things.

As far as purification goes, I have no idea whether it's possible to purify water so totally. If this experiment you heard about actually took place, then whoever was carrying it out probably just synthesized some. But really, just drinking pure water is a bit beside the point--for the reasons I mentioned above, i.e., that this whole water intoxication business is a bit of a misnomer, since the issue is really all about salt (the "dirt and stuff" you mention is usually just naturally-occuring minerals, some of which, such as potassium, are salts). The subject in the supposed experiment must have drunk an awful lot of that pure water for anything bad to have happened. Poor guy! Buck Mulligan 19:00, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

yes apperantly *i guess rumors* state that it happened over the course of a month and drinking regularly instead of all at once. the other rumor states that it happened instantly as soon as the water was swallowed. (i asked around my office and the school next to it) Now i dont know if this is all because of this recent contest that killed that girl but apperantly people are starting to talk about this experiment again Maverick423 21:25, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

It has long been speculated that drinking extremely pure (i.e. distilled and de-ionized water) might leach essential nutrients from the body even faster than regular water, perhaps even to the extent that it might cause health problems. I stumbled across a WHO study on the web the other day but I can't find it again. Personally I wouldn't drink the stuff even if it was healthy. I remember a long time ago I tried drinking distilled water thinking it would be better but the stuff tasted extremely nasty. --Lee Vonce 21:51, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Check out the page on dionized water. I commented on how DI water is perfectly safe to drink.

Also, salt water isn't bad because you get too much salt from it. Its bad because it leeches water from your body via osmosis and that is how it dehydrates you. Rjkd12 04:35, 6 February 2007 (UTC)