Talk:El Afweyn

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population 21,000

Third largest city?

El Afweyne is the second largest city after Erigavo. What other city could be bigger than it? Lasqory is 34,000 while El Afweyne is double! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.96.160.44 (talk) 20:18, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

About deleting descriptions

@Jacob300: Please explain the reason for this edit. It is notability that the specific place names are written in this type of document. Jama Ali Jama, who appears in this next section, was a politician on the Puntland government side when this document was created. It is clear that the actions of Jama Ali Jama were unjust even if fully accept Puntland's claim at the time. Without this explanation, the reader would not notice it.--Freetrashbox (talk) 21:01, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Freetrashbox:

Thank you for your message. I removed the sentence stating 'In July 2001, the government of Puntland enacted the "Provisional Constitution of the Republic of Puntland," declaring the Sanaag region, except for El Afwein and the northeastern part of Erigavo, to be its territory.' as it have no relevance to the article as per WP:RELEVANT.

Many thanks Jacob300 (talk) 15:06, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Jacob300: That's not an answer. Please explain logically that the sentence marked "El Afweyn" has no relevance to El Afweyn.--Freetrashbox (talk) 20:07, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Puntland influence

Hello @Freetrashbox:,

I reverted your recent edit since it seems to be pushing a particular POV. I don't see how the non-inclusion of El Afweyn in Puntland's claim is relevant to the article (see WP:RELEVANT). Then is the fact that the subheading "Puntland influence" is implying that Puntland has influence and some sort of control of the town (which it does not claim), which is POV pushing.

This along with the fact that "In July 2001, the government of Puntland enacted the "Provisional Constitution of the Republic of Puntland" is simply wrong since Puntland is not a republic, but a federal member state of Somalia. Gebagebo (talk) 18:25, 23 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gebagebo: "Republic of Puntland" is my mistake. I would change it to "Puntland regional government" to match the source.

I don't quite agree with your opinion that the heading "Puntland influence" is against WP:POV, but I don't strongly disagree with replacing it with "Security", so I'll compromise with "Security" here.

The sentence "Provisional Constitution of Puntland" is necessary. Without this explanation, the reader will not understand why Jama Ali Jama fled to El Afweyn and why Yusuf did not pursue him.

To Puntland, El Afweyn is "foreign country" and Jama had fled to a foreign country. Yusuf couldn't pursue Jama because Jama's army lived in foreign country. And the reason why Jama's army was able to stay in El Afweyn was probably because the residents of El Afweyn welcomed Jama as a guest. Many Somalis have the virtue of helping those in need, and treating their guests well. Otherwise, we cannot explain how Jama and his team, as foreign troops, were able to stay in El Afweyn without any major trouble. In other words, it seems hard to believe that Jama had control of the town. Even if El Afweyn did not have the power to remove Jama by force, the surrounding towns and the Somaliland government would not remain silent.--Freetrashbox (talk) 13:02, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is you labelling this "influence" as if Puntland has a presence or as if they control the town, which is clearly not the case and hasn't been. I quite frankly don't see how a rebel faction being based in El Afweyn equals Puntland presence or control. This is equivalent to me making a section in the Qardho page titled "Somaliland influence" due to the fact that Cornel Caare had a military base in Qardho ([1]) and then adding that Somaliland does not claim Qardho as part of its sovereign territory. Speculating what the reason may be and adding said speculation to articles isn't allowed on Wikipedia per WP:OR, only sourced content is.

Again, the part about the Provisional Constitution of Puntland not including El Afweyn as part of Puntland is not notable nor is it relevant to the subject at all. That's equivalent to me adding that "according to Mexico's constitution Texas is not part of Mexico" to Texas. Gebagebo (talk) 18:25, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gebagebo: According to Oxford Learner's Dictionaries, the meaning of influence is "the effect that somebody/something has on the way a person thinks or behaves or on the way that something works or develops", not "control." The sentence examples shown there do not indicate "control. Please indicate examples of usage of "influence" in the sense of "control."

Jama Ali Jama was a defeated person, but formally, he was the president of Puntland, elected by the parliament. El Afweyn was influenced by the two "Puntland Presidents", Jama and Yusuf, who were vying for power, which can be called "Puntland influence." This event does not deserve to be called "security," and "security" is too abstract to be meaningful in the first place.

I am not familiar with the Mexican Constitution nor with Mexican history. Please tell me what the Mexican Constitution says about Texas. And important people in the Mexican government have done to disobey that Constitution?--Freetrashbox (talk) 12:59, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What you have mentioned is nothing but original research. You have not explained at all how Puntland could possibly influence a town it doesn't claim. Again, I could use the same logic for Caare being based in Qardho. This is clearly POV editing, with the goal of making it seem that Puntland has influence in El Afweyn on the basis that a rebel faction was based near it.

I suggest you desist from any future POV edits like this as that is not accepted in Wikipedia. Gebagebo (talk) 13:56, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gebagebo: What "point of view" do I seem to have for you? From your previous explanations, do you feel that I am plotting to make Puntland look great? As you can see from description that you erased, this is a record of the civil war in Puntland. There is no such thing as good or bad history, but this shows that Puntland was not even in control of its own country. In other words, this is a disgraceful description of Puntland. Or do you think I'm saying Puntland is worse than it is?

Again, "influence" does not mean "control." The example in the Oxford Learner's Dictionaries entry for "influence" has the sentence "His early work shows the influence of Cézanne and Matisse". However, we cannot read from this sentence that "Cézanne controlled him."

To make my intentions clearer, I'm going to refer to this subject as "Influence of the Puntland civil war" Does this solve the problem?

I have to explain to you the difference between the Mexican Constitution and the Puntland Constitution. However, I could not find where in the Mexican Constitution there is any mention of Texas. According to Transitional Constitution of Puntland regional government Article 3.1 "The territorial sovereignty of Puntland shall extend to: East Region of Bari, Nugal, Sool, South Togdher (Buhodle District), Mudug except the Districts of Hobyo and Haradhere and Sanag Region except the District of El-Afweyn and Northeast of Erigavo District." What is the number of the article in the Mexican Constitution that corresponds to this?--Freetrashbox (talk) 11:41, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Again, I don't see how Puntland rebel forces being based in El Afweyn equals influence, especially when no source has stated that. You have once again not explained how exactly Puntland had influence over El Afweyn (a town the state doesn't claim) in 2003 through a rebel faction. It is POV in the sense that you're making it seem that Puntland has influence over said town.

Again, referring to the section as "Influence of the Puntland civil war" isn't feasible since the problem would still exist. You yourself states that you don't strongly disagree with replacing it with "Security", so keeping the section's name as security is probably the only option for now. Gebagebo (talk) 12:07, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gebagebo: The presence of foreign troops in a town is itself an "influence." Also, the source does not state what security implications this event may have for El Afweyn. However, I have already agreed to rewrite this as "Security", so I think this problem is solved.

What about the Mexican Constitution?--Freetrashbox (talk) 20:57, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gebagebo: As far as I have been able to determine, there is no mention of Texas in the Mexican Constitution. There is currently no explanation as to why the description of the "Transitional Constitution of Puntland regional government," which is clearly marked "El Afweyn," cannot be used in the El Afweyn article. If there is no additional explanation, the description of this section will be reverted after correcting the name of the constitution.--Freetrashbox (talk) 01:31, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Freetrashbox: The point about the Mexican Constitution is just an example. You have still not shown how the non-inclusion of a town should be added to the town's article. That is not relevant. Gebagebo (talk) 22:40, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]