Jump to content

Talk:Smedley Butler

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ser Amantio di Nicolao (talk | contribs) at 06:45, 4 March 2022 (add WikiProject template). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Template:Vital article

Good articleSmedley Butler has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 12, 2006Good article nomineeListed
October 16, 2007Good article reassessmentKept
October 21, 2007Peer reviewReviewed
June 28, 2009Featured topic candidateNot promoted
August 27, 2009Peer reviewReviewed
January 21, 2010WikiProject A-class reviewApproved
January 30, 2010Featured article candidateNot promoted
April 6, 2010Featured article candidateNot promoted
Current status: Good article

Lede Discussion BRD

There has been some work on the lede. Rather than see edit warring begin I'd suggest that we reach a consensus here before further changes.

  • I think mentioning the Business Plot twice in the lede is undue, but left it in so that could be discussed here.
  • Refs are commonly in the lede of bio articles.
  • Edits that suggest that the Business Plot was a true coup effort and more than an allegation of Butler's fly in the face of the consensus at the main article page, academic historical analysis, concurrent reporting at the time, and long term consensus at this page.
  • It makes sense to have the lede summarise the article chronologically (as the article is organized) rather than talk about his military career, then the business plot, then awards earned in his military career, and then the business plot again.

Those are my initial thoughts as to the lede changes. Capitalismojo (talk) 17:00, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I generally agree with Capitalismojo, but I suggest the lede should not be chronological it should be in order of importance--most important (Biz Plot) first. In the main text I added documentation re his activities on the far left in 1930s Rjensen (talk) 17:23, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well the there is an argument for having the Business Plot first. Some would say, though, that his military service and awards made him notable and lend notability to the incident. Ultimately, I just think that the lede reads better chronologically. It's short enough that being listed second in the lede doesn't detract from the understanding. Capitalismojo (talk) 17:31, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
His high rank did give him credibility. If he had been a retired major few people would have paid attention -- (it's unlikely that J P Morgan Co, would choose an unknown person to lead its 500,000-man army.) Rjensen (talk) 17:38, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have reposted this content discussion from my talk page. Capitalismojo (talk) 19:10, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • You cannot make additions to the article, by undoing mine and then tell me to take them to talk, which is entirely hypocritical. There isn't a single mention throughout the article that Butler was a self-proclaimed Socialist or proclaimed himself left-wing and the source you dug up is clearly laughable, you do not even know how to cite a source firstly, you just took a random link from amazon which you no doubt searched up and haven't even read and pasted it into the lead, simply because an historian calls him left-wing doesn't make him so he just happened to have some similar views. Criticizing an action, for example "this business makes profit" is not a political viewpoint, its just a fact, I do not become left-wing for pointing that out. Guidelines suggest refs shouldnt be in the lead anyway, but thats besides the point. Keep this up and I'm taking this to the administrators because I do not consider this to be a disagreement on content, but someone (yourself) commiting to contentious editing and censorhsip to put forward a view, completely against Wikipedia. --JTBX (talk) 17:52, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
If you are concerned about an incident please feel free to take it to ANI. Know that I am uncertain, based on your comment, what precisely you consider that incident to be. You have made a Bold addition to the article lede. It has been reverted by several editors. You have been invited to discuss the content on the talk page. This is the essence of WP:BRD. I look forward to reaching a consensus. Capitalismojo (talk) 19:24, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As regards the "left-wing" description. If you have problems with the book as a RS take the discussion here or to RS/N, don't edit war. I suggest that this is a good recent history that was well-received. It says "This historical biography explores the life of Butler, a little-known American Marine who exposed an alleged fascist coup to remove President Franklin D. Roosevelt from office. This text is an exploration of the political issues of the first half of the twentieth century and an examination of a complicated, valiant man who shifted from Republican ideals to anti-corporate, left-wing populism." I note that another editor has added additional material from this book into the main body of the article. This is hardly a controversial view of Butler by historians. Capitalismojo (talk) 19:24, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

section titled "EARLY LIFE" second paragraph

the paragraph is unclear in it's statements- which seem contradictory:It states he left high school thirty eight days before his 17th birthday, and then states that the school "nevertheless" awarded him his diploma on 06june, 1898- which means he was awarded his diploma before he left the school, "nevertheless". I understand that being over a hundred years ago high school may have only been three years long, etcetera, but I do not understand the inclusion of the "nevertheless" adverb. If that IS an adverb. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.68.23.15 (talk) 00:47, 21 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Smedley Butler. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:02, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 7 external links on Smedley Butler. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:25, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Conspiracy theorist?

What conspiracy theories has Butler promoted? I could be mistaken but I don't see any mention of this in the article, however Butler is included in the category American conspiracy theorists. I am removing CT category for now. Yodabyte (talk) 01:36, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That is probably a reference to the Business Plot which is described in the article.Historian932 (talk) 17:30, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Still most decorated Marine in history?

The article says he was at the time of his death, does anyone know if this is still the case? Historian932 (talk) 17:31, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Actually it looks like he was surpassed by Chesty Puller.Historian932 (talk) 17:32, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Smedley_Butler&oldid=1075156428"