Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Enrique Márquez

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Closing early as there is not a snowball's chance in hell of this being deleted. An WP:RM discussion to move the dab page and then the Enrique Marquez (US citizen) page looks to be the way forward if desired. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 01:04, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Enrique Márquez

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This DAB currently covers 4 people, only two of which uses the page name. It is holding up a page move for Enrique Marquez (US citizen) who is way more famous then Enrique Macaya Márquez. CSD declined by an Admin with the reason it is a DAB page (I don't understand that reason). Legacypac (talk) 01:52, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You don't want an AFD. You want either a WP:RM, or an RFC on the article talk page. --Floquenbeam (talk) 03:05, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Since you reverted my effort to turn this into a redirect [1] I guess we do need an AfD after all. Delete the DAB, turn into a redirect to the guy charged with terrorism. Legacypac (talk) 03:24, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

We can't just delete the dab page, it is being used. We could move it to Enrique Márquez (disambiguation), but since people disagree, you need to discuss the move at the talk page and get a consensus. Or (less optimally, IMHO, but an option) we could make Enrique Marquez (with no á) the page for the guy in California, with a hatnote to the dab page (with the á). Also needing discussion. --Floquenbeam (talk) 03:30, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Also, you need to learn about Spanish naming customs; "Márquez" is not the middle name of Enrique Márquez Jaramillo. --Floquenbeam (talk) 03:33, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Having lived in Mexico City for a while, I am well aware of Spanish naming customs. In theory people can go by their given and first family name only, but Wikipedia is using their whole name. At RfD we just went through a bunch of these and deleted all that used that form.

I prefer to see the California guy at Enrique Marquez with not accent per say CNN [2] especially since he lives in the US where the accents are usually dropped. Legacypac (talk) 03:50, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

We're using their whole name mainly because it offers the most natural and culturally sensitive way to disambiguate two Spanish-named people with the same WP:COMMONNAME. It doesn't weaken either of their claims to WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the common form at all, any more than it would if they'd been dabbed as "Enrique Márquez (poet)" and "Enrique Márquez (footballer)". Bearcat (talk) 04:06, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Two of the four people on this list have stronger claims to PRIMARYTOPIC for this name than the US citizen cum alleged terrorist does, because they've both been far more famous and notable for far longer. So keeping the dab page at the plain title is the correct solution here; for all his current newsiness, the new guy has not trumpcarded the others for the plain title as of yet. Bearcat (talk) 04:06, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. A guy who has been in the news for five minutes and whose own article is up for AfD does not warrant being the primary topic. WWGB (talk) 05:06, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. BDD (talk) 05:34, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy keep It looks like this is mostly a misunderstanding. I don't think there can really be any doubt that such a disambiguation page should exist somewhere. If moving it is desired, WP:RM should be used, not AfD. --BDD (talk) 05:39, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep If this needs to be changed, it needs to be moved to Enrique Márquez (disambiguation), but as mentioned by WWGB and Bearcat this is a serious case of WP:RECENTISM at work. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 05:54, 19 December 2015 (UTC)'[reply]
Keep - valid DAB; there's also a Venezuelan politician with the name —Мандичка^YO 😜 08:35, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - dab lists three people who may be referred to by the same name, and none of whom are clearly the primary topic. That's what dabs are for. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 13:21, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I suggest an admin snow close this so an RM discussion can be had. I've commented so I can't close, but it seems like a snow close is appropriate, followed by a move discussion at Talk:Enrique Márquez. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:58, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Note - Debate was closed as a snow keep on the deletion of the dab page and incorrect venue for a requested move. However Legacypac has since correctly noted that WP:AFD does make reference to renaming as an AfD option. The full discusion is here. Interestingly their point is contradicted by WP:CLOSEAFD and WP:GD but supported as a less common outcome at Wikipedia:Deletion_process#Other_Outcomes. Perhaps our policy pages need a copyedit.

There does not appear to be a dispute over the concept of a snow keep on deletion, and an assessment of debate also leans toward a snow keep of the current dab as primary topic. But it remains (potentially) possible that a rename might win support in further discussion. So as the path of least bureaucratic resistance I've reopened the AfD at Legacypac's request, on the basis that they are seeking an article rename and not deletion. Apologies to anyone inconvenienced by the to and fro.-- Euryalus (talk) 06:02, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Since there is already a rename discussion happening at Talk:Enrique Marquez (US citizen) for that article, keeping this open to review a possible rename of the dab page (the only reason for which is so the article could be moved here) unnecessarily complicates matters. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:55, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as an appropriate dab page for the individuals listed. Alansohn (talk) 10:00, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep valid entries. Boleyn (talk) 10:41, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: a perfectly valid dab page. PamD 13:59, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep at this name, no one person is the primary topic. Also, since an á is hard to type on some keyboards, I think we should maintain Enrique Marquez as a redirect to this page. And if we're really going to have a rename discussion here, then I assume we won't see a WP:RM opened up immediately after this AFD is closed. For anyone interested, see discussion at Talk:Enrique Marquez (US citizen) for a discussion of where to move that page. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:55, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The most likely outcome on the 3rd listing will be making it a redirect to a section of the article on the San Bernadino shooting. Which will still leave us with articles on three people under this name, and make the disambiguation page needed.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:47, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The person who started this deletion request also seems to not understand Spanish names. For example Enrique Marquez Jaramillo is normally known as just Enrique Marquez. With people in Spanish-speaking countries like Mexico, they generally have two last names (unless their father refused to acknowledge them, I knew someone from Venezuela who was in that situation but I digress) and the first of the two last names is the one they will go by primarily. In many sources they will be listed only by that last name.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:53, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.