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October 2013

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Speedy deletion nomination of File:ABU TV Song Festival 2013 logo.svg

A tag has been placed on File:ABU TV Song Festival 2013 logo.svg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F2 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an image page for a missing or corrupt image or an empty image description page for a Commons-hosted image.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Sven Manguard Wha? 06:40, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - October 2013

Issue XXXV	Project Eurovision monthly				Click image below to read full edition
At the time of publication the project statistics were as follows
Total Number of Members	Active Members	Inactive Members	Total Number of Articles	Number of Good Articles	Number of Featured Articles	Require Improvements
66	48	18	4906	16	4	1368
8	3	5	23			708
To discontinue receiving Eurovision newsletters and mini memorandums, please remove your name from here.

This newsletter was delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 00:33, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Navboxs on Eurovision articles

I noticed that you've been adding navboxes that group the Eurovision templates and hide them in a collapsed state on several Eurovision related articles such as France in the Eurovision Song Contest. I just want to know if that has been discussed in the past at Project Eurovision or if it is suggested as a general format for Wikipedia articles? I ask because I'm not really a fan of grouping the templates on articles like that and I prefer that they remain on the page fully, but in a collapsed state in order to save room. Pickette (talk) 02:21, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

It's a standard WP:MOS procedure that I stumbled upon when reading WP:NAVHEAD, Template talk:Navboxes, and ultimately Template:Navboxes. It would appear that there's suppose to be a limit of how many navboxes are to be visible on an article and when that number exceeds then they're to be grouped into a Navbox for navboxes (if that makes sense). As I am doing a major assessment task for Project Eurovision, then I felt it be best to get navboxes checked out at the same time and start using Template:Navboxes in accordance to Manual of Style. Wesley Mᴥuse 02:29, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

I would agree that articles with an abundant amount of templates could benefit from that type of format, but I think in certain cases, such as France in the Eurovision Song Contest, the two templates would be fine to appear in full (but they can both be collapsed). However, on an article like Valentina Monetta, I would understand such a system being used. Pickette (talk) 02:50, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Feel free to "unbox" some of them at your discretion. I'm just checking every single article for Project Eurovision and making sure {{EurovisionNotice}} banner is added to them all, as the stats show we have 4906 articles and I'm 99.9% certain there should be more than that (and I have found articles that haven't been given our project banner) While I am doing that I'm also cleaning up articles adding {{Eurovision-stub}} on any that need it, and as you noticed also using that navbox thingy-me-bob. I think I may have set myself the task of all tasks. Wesley Mᴥuse 02:55, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Tags

Hey Wesley, please don't overdo it with the tags. I just got done cleaning up De vogels van Holland and I'm working on Voorgoed voorbij right now. Those short articles have short leads, and all the ones I looked at are fine relative to length and content. I'm also not sure what the context problem is, nor do I see anything wrong with the layout. It's true that referencing leaves a lot to be desired, but please be wary of tag bombing. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 04:26, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Sorry about that Drmies, I got carried away with myself. Stupid me has decided to burden myself with one crazy task for WP:ESC. I noticed that a lot of articles have either not been assessed or have not even been given a project banner. All of which is making the article count look a lot less than it should be. So I felt whilst I was doing those checks, I'd also see if any required maintenance so that our clean-up bot thing has a more accurate record of what needs doing. Wesley Mᴥuse 04:36, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Sure thing, but I think the standard you have in mind is of the song articles you worked on yourself, maybe? In comparison with other stubs, the ones I looked at aren't that bad; in fact, they are very well organized (through copying and pasting, no doubt, but they followed a decent model). It's not easy, by the way, to find references for them; I must have gotten lucky with De vogels van Holland. But I think you should leave the context and lead tags out of articles such as the ones I mentioned, since they're really fine, for stubs. Drmies (talk) 04:40, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Is there a tag to encourage editors to try and expand the article beyond a stub? Wesley Mᴥuse 04:45, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, there's Template:Expand--as a guideline, since the template itself is deprecated. I can't help but think though that such templates are of limited use. Drmies (talk) 05:26, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Something positive has come from my haphazard tagging. A few of the articles are finally getting work done to them after months of laying dormant. Wesley Mᴥuse 06:36, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Re:Map help

No problem, I've put the base map in with image map, do you want this map to include the country names like it did, and also maybe their flag? -- [[ axg // ✉ ]] 19:11, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I'm not sure about country names and/or country flags. I know that we'd probably have an issue with Yugoslavia and Serbia-Montenegro. I was thinking of whether to add them in "list format" under the map with their flag and country names. I'll leave it up to you to decide what looks best. What do you think to the new project look by the way, improvement or not? Wesley Mᴥuse 19:15, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

It's looking a lot better with a bit of paint. I think below, since that would balance out the columns a bit more. :) -- [[ axg // ✉ ]] 19:25, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

I'll add flags below then. Although the column sizes seem to change on each visit to the portal, probably because the Selected Article and Selected Image sections are random. Wesley Mᴥuse 19:31, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

OK I've tweaked that section and added flags underneath the map, and split them into sections such as active and former. I've used number listing rather than bullet-point, so that people will have a rough idea on how many actives could "potentially" take part in a Eurovision. Wesley Mᴥuse 19:58, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Category

Please take a look at the Category that is up for deletion concernibg Eurovision. You find it at my talk page.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:41, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Dayana Kirillova official site

Hi! Sorry to bother you. You see, the website is amateurish and in very bad English. I would rather not have something so embarrassing in the external links section. Also, both websites are not "official" in the usual sense. They are made by fans who seem to have little contact with Dayana. The singer herself seems to accept the Russian website as her official page, though.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 17:19, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

I checked the website and at the very bottom it does stipulate "Official". Also the website is written in perfect English, and I can verify that as English is my native language. Afterall this is English Wikipedia, so it would be ideal to provide a link to an English language site too, for those who do not speak/read Russian. Wesley Mᴥuse 18:40, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

If you as a native English speaker don't find the awkward wording and the strange word order (which is obviously a result of a word-by-word translation from Russian) embarrassing... And stuff like "New news, information on participation in the concert events Dayana Kirillova" ("Dayana Kirillova" obviously being in the genitive case in the original), "the contest of pop song", "at the weekend", "to be hold", "Pictures have created in the Photoshop or another graphics program will be disqualified" (obviously a past participle in the original Russian sentence), etc. Then it's all okay with me. The link should stay. --Moscow Connection (talk) 19:48, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

But we are to assume good faith here. The editors may not have a good understanding of English, which is understandable. But the wording is using a more formal context, which is rare but not unusual. There is evidence at the bottom of both websites which indicate they have been published by the same people. So if you're saying the English one is "unofficial" then so would the Russian one too. Also, her official VK page shows the .com domain (English version) as being the official website. Wesley Mᴥuse 21:03, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Her "official" VK page is as official as everything else. It is created by the same people. I guess the pages are official enough cause they are authorised by her. Thank you very much for checking the website out and saying it is okay! The link should stay. Surely, I didn't want to remove a useful link. (I thought that the English-language site would make the singer look bad cause people might think that the site was made by Dayana's official representatives who couldn't speak English.) --Moscow Connection (talk) 07:05, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Correction: This is her "official" VK community: [1]. But there are also other communities that want to be "official". :) But okay, thank you very much, I think we should just leave the links in the article as they are now. --Moscow Connection (talk) 07:16, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I'd say that both the VK pages are official. We all know that Dayana is Russian, but not everyone in the world can read Russian. So I would assume that her production team are trying to accommodate everybody by providing websites/VK pages in both Russian and English (similar to how Celine Dion has her website in both French and English). Wesley Mᴥuse 10:18, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Manchester Meetup 20

Ping! You requested a reminder, so here it is. Manchester Meetup 20 will be happening this Sunday! Hope to see you there. --(ʞɿɐʇ) ɐuɐʞsǝp 12:53, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Newsflash! The location of this weekend's Manchester meetup has been moved back to Wetherspoons on Princess Street - the Ducie Arms isn't open on Sundays! Can you believe that?! Bazonka (talk) 18:03, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Deskana. Bloody typical for Ducie Arms to be closed on Sunday's. Their loss is Weatherspoons gain. Besides it means cheaper ale. Wesley Mᴥuse 12:48, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

November 2013

WikiCup 2014

Hi, if you haven't already, you should consider signing up for WikiCup 2014. Cheers, --Sp33dyphil ©^hat_ontributions 02:05, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

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WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter - November 2013

Issue XXXVI	Project Eurovision monthly				Click image below to read full edition
At the time of publication the project statistics were as follows
Total Number of Members	Active Members	Inactive Members	Total Number of Articles	Number of Good Articles	Number of Featured Articles	Require Improvements
68	51	17	4987	16	4	2204
2	3	1	81			836
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This newsletter was delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 16:44, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Türkvizyon 2013

I've managed to make this File:Türkvizyon 2013 map.svg, and only included the Russian divisions that take part separately. -- [[ axg // ✉ ]] 19:47, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

That looks perfect, thank you. I was frantically scratching my head trying to think how we'd work around it. Was it easier than I may have thought? Wesley Mᴥuse 19:53, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Not bad really, made it easier by not doing every single region of Russia. -- [[ axg // ✉ ]] 20:48, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

There are other regions within Russia that are legible to participate, but have decided not to debut in the first contest. Should we leave them out of the map for now? Wesley Mᴥuse 21:10, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes, since they are Russia, and Russia is participating, if and when they want to partake independently next year, then the map with include them. -- [[ axg // ✉ ]] 22:01, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Türkvizyon 2013

Template:Türkvizyon 2013 has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. The Banner talk 22:13, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

GA nominations

Hi Wesley, I noticed your Eurovision nominations have been languishing for a while without reviewers (they're now the oldest nominations in the GA queue). I've been wanting to extend you an olive branch for a while after our spat over the 2012 Eurovision article--would it be helpful if I did one of those reviews? I often help clean out the oldest reviews on that page, but I didn't want to take either of these on without checking with you first. I can't promise an automatic pass, of course, but I can promise a fair and thorough review. Let me know what you think, and thanks as always for your huge contributions in this area-- Khazar2 (talk) 16:13, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

As far as I know, Pyrotec (talk · contribs) has said he will do them. unless you wish to liaise with him and do one each between you. Wesley Mᴥuse 23:42, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

No, if they're already spoken for, I don't mean to intrude; he'll be an excellent reviewer for them. Let me just say thanks again for all your work then--cheers and enjoy the week, Khazar2 (talk) 02:55, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Ohh, I feel bad now. It would be nice for the GA's to be done, as they have been sat there waiting for a while now. I'm sure Pyrotec wouldn't mind if you were to do one. And it would be an honour to receive a GA review from yourself, too. I was trying to think to myself about this spat you mentioned. And to be honest, I cannot even recall one. But a lot of positive things have happened in my life this year alone, so most negativity has been dissipated. Right now, I'm on cloud 9 with excitement after my partner finally proposed. Now the arduous task of wedding planning begins LOL. Wesley Mᴥuse 04:36, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Congrats, that's such wonderful news! Tell you what, I'll give Pyro till tomorrow morning my time--if he's not on both by then, I'll grab one. Cheers, Khazar2 (talk) 04:40, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Eurovision Song Contest 2013

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Eurovision Song Contest 2013 you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period.

Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of ViperSnake151 -- ViperSnake151 (talk) 05:26, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

The article Eurovision Song Contest 2013 you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2013 for things which need to be addressed.

ViperSnake151  Talk   05:29, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Ohhh! Thank you. Please bear with me as I was unwise to submit 2 GA's at the same time, and they are now both under review. I shall do my best to rectify both as swiftly as possible. Wesley Mᴥuse 12:26, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

The article Eurovision Song Contest 2013 you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2013 for comments about the article. Well done! Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of ViperSnake151 -- ViperSnake151 (talk) 05:12, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Woohoo! Oh this year just keeps on getting better and better. Thank you ever so much for the review, I appreciate it oh so much. Wesley Mᴥuse 05:43, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

GA

The GA review for ESC 2013 has started. Only smaller issues needed to be taken care of I see. Good luck!--BabbaQ (talk) 10:01, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Both 2011 and 2013 are now under. This is going to be fun. Wesley Mᴥuse 12:32, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Oh my gosh, I cannot describe in words how excited I am feeling right now. Not one but two GA's under review. I'm going to be extremely busier than I anticipated, especially now that I've accepted a proposal of marriage from my partner. What a happy ending to the year 2013. I always knew that thirteen was my lucky number. Wesley Mᴥuse 13:12, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Big congratulations too you and your partner!!!--BabbaQ (talk) 13:22, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

DYK check

I created an article on Nour El-Refai today, she will host Melodifestivalen 2014 the Swedish national selection for Eurovision. Take a look!--BabbaQ (talk) 17:31, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

That looks fantastic. I hope you don't mind, but I filled out the project assessment scales that were left blank. While I have a quiet period, I've decided to continue the mammoth task of checking every annual article, following the wikilinks, and adding {{EurovisionNotice}} to any that are missing. It's about time this project knew exactly how many articles we really had. Wesley Mᴥuse 17:36, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you!. You too are doing a great job even though it is like you say a mammoth task!--BabbaQ (talk) 17:38, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Just saying great work on the article, although I just wanted to say lol at the DYK nomination on the talk page :P -- [[ axg // ✉ ]] 17:42, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Babba and AxG, just a quick question, if I may. I'm wondering whether I should raise up the issue of project assessments in the next issue of the newsletter? When I started this arduous task back in June, the assessment scale shown that the project had only 4,200 articles. I've check all the OGAE articles, JESC articles, and got as far as 1959 on ESC ones, and so far I have found an additional 1,000 articles that were not assigned to this project. This task may require an extra pair of hands to get through it all quicker. Got a gut feeling we have well over 20,000 articles that are floating around the ether waiting for WP:ESC to find the. P.S. I too have to ROFL at the DYK. Wesley Mᴥuse 17:46, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

I think you definitly need some help. That is too many articles for one user to handle even if you spent every minute of your time awake fixing it. You should raise the issue and perhaps get some help from other users in the project.--BabbaQ (talk) 18:04, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Eurovision Song Contest 2011

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Eurovision Song Contest 2011 you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period.

Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Khazar2 -- Khazar2 (talk) 11:42, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Ohhh! Thank you. Please bear with me as I was unwise to submit 2 GA's at the same time, and they are now both under review. I shall do my best to rectify both as swiftly as possible. Wesley Mᴥuse 12:27, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

The article Eurovision Song Contest 2011 you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2011 for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Khazar2 -- Khazar2 (talk) 20:21, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

The article Eurovision Song Contest 2011 you nominated as a good article has failed ; see Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2011 for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Khazar2 -- Khazar2 (talk) 04:20, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

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Hi

Here is a song that I love and I just wanted to share with you today. For no particular reason other than spreading a good saturday feeling. :)--BabbaQ (talk) 21:48, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Aw bless you, BabbaQ. Very thoughtful of you. And the song is beautiful. Wes Mᴥuse 22:25, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Map on Eurovision winners page

I'm not sure if you get lots of questions about this. If so, I'm sorry, but the map here is seriously annoying me. I can't understand the point of including West Germany as a separate entity in the map from today's Germany when there are in essence the same country and at no other point in Germany's Eurovision article or anywhere else on Eurovision Wikipedia is it treated as a different country: the 1991 contest article for instance does not note that any country has withdrawn or debuted. Even the table next to the map says that Germany has two wins! I would like West Germany to be removed from the inset and Germany to be coloured purple, with perhaps an indicator somewhere that Germany won once as West Germany.

I should probably mention that there is discussion of this in the picture and article's talk pages dating back to just after Germany had won in 2010, but nothing's been done to the picture since. Kapitan110295 (talk) 10:19, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

There is quite a simple explanation for this. Germany was recognised as 2 separate countries East Germany and West Germany, until 3 October 1990, when the two nations became reunified. For the sake of map purposes, we have to show this correctly, just like we have done for Yugoslavia. When Germany won the contest in 1982, it was as part of West Germany. When Germany won in 2010 it was under a unified Germany. Hence the two separate German entities showing on the map. We cannot remove the inserted map image, because if we did, then we'd also be removing Yugoslavia who also appears in that inserted map, and Yugoslavia did also win in 1989 as a country in their own right. The map insertion is there to show both East Germany and Yugoslavia's separate wins as nations. 'Wes Mᴥuse 16:53, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

More information on reasons about this can be found at Talk:List of Eurovision Song Contest winners#The Map, Talk:List of Eurovision Song Contest winners#Germany-winners, and Germany in the Eurovision Song Contest explains that Germany presented themselves at Eurovision prior to the 1990 reunification as "West Germany". So when they won in 1982, it was as West Germany, which the former-country needs to be shown in their own right on the map. 'Wes Mᴥuse 17:07, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

I recognise those ideas Wes, and can see the logic, but if one was to ask if West Germany and Germany are two countries entities, then there'd be an argument that could go on for ages. Both, as I've said, are referred to as the Federal Republic of Germany and are, except in territorial domain, the same country with the exact same broadcaster (ARD). And why don't any of the other Eurovision pages treat them as different countries like, as I said, in the 1991 article (why doesn't it say that West Germany left and Germany debuted)? I'm not asking for the inset to be removed; I understand that Yugoslavia's win must be clearly shown (especially since a Croatian band won) but I'd still be made happier by the removal of West Germany from the map. Under the current situation, one could look at the map and think that the single wins by West Germany and Germany were the same win, whereas if Germany as an essence was shown to have two wins then one could easily note the correct level achievement of the country and, if they viewed the table, see that one of them was in 1982 and therefore must've been when the Federal Republic of Germany had the unofficial title of West Germany (which would be made especially clear if there was a note). East Germany never competed in Eurovision anyway so I don't see the need for such concern that there would be confusion.

This is probably one of the biggest headaches that everyone has to deal with on Wikipedia, and respect that there are so many points of view here. Kapitan110295 (talk) 21:23, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately it goes a lot more complexed than that, and something from what I recall was settled by a unanimous consensus, not just by the project but also Wikipedia naming conventions, which have to be strictly abided to. It's just one of those things, I'm afraid. Wes Mᴥuse 22:05, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

You see, if we marked Germany down as having 2 wins, it would be incorrect. If both wins were achieved during the reunification years, then I could see that they should be shown as 2-time winners. However, as one of their wins was during the time of Germany's West/East division, then we have to correctly show this by means of using the map that would have been in existence at the time of the 1982 victory (which as you noted was "West" Germany). Wes Mᴥuse 22:08, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

• OK I've spent a few minutes browsing through the entire project talk page archives, and have come across Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision/Archive 1#Map on the winners' article and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision/Archive 3#Eurovision Winners Map. Apparently if we removed the 1982 win and shown Germany as a unified nation, then it would be misleading as there was no unified Germany existed at the time of the 1982 win. However there was a unified Germany that existed at the time of their 2010 win. The way we have shown this is in the current method used. The EBU knew that East Germany never participated, and that all German participants between 1956 - 1990 were actually from the commonly known "West Germany", although the EBU chose to enlist them as Germany for the sake of the contest. We have to follow the same for labelling aspects, using "Germany". But when it came down to the win, we have to highlight "West Germany" on the map, purely because there was no unified Germany in 1982. Wes Mᴥuse 22:31, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply; I've been quite busy today. Actually, the more I look at the map, the more I'm getting used to it. I'm wondering if my liking of Germany is playing into my desire for this... I wouldn't like to admit so. I suppose the likelihood of it getting changed is slim, so I'll just let it be and concede that in it's current form it does make sense :). Kapitan110295 (talk) 09:50, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Junior Eurovision

Yes good work Wes. I think the JESC winner this year is great. I have nominated this win for a mention at ITN I dont think it will be addded to the ITN section but atleast giving it a try.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:20, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

It's worth a try. Point out to them that it is historical on Eurovision/Junior Eurovision standards, as this is the first time that Malta has won any version of Eurovision. 'Wes Mᴥuse 20:27, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

If you dont mind, please take a look you too.. [[2]].--BabbaQ (talk) 20:28, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

The blurb could probably mention the fact it is also Malta's first win at any contest. Unless we saved that for a DYK nomination, once we've worked on Malta in the Junior Eurovision Song Contest. I've changed your source link too. We both know how Oikotimes can be picky. I personally think citing the EBU would give it more weight and "official" standing. 'Wes Mᴥuse 20:32, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

I will say though, how much hard work it was trying to update the article with all the edit conflicts. I had everything prepared ready, and as the results were being cast I was updating my notepad document so it would be a case of quickly paste if from notepad to article and then it would be updated rapidly. Suppose I should have added the "live event" template to pre-warn people. Something to consider for future events perhaps, to reduce edit conflicts. Wes Mᴥuse 20:40, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with you on the EBU link definitly. Also I think you are right about a possible DYK nomination within a few days if someone could expand the article x5. Regards,--BabbaQ (talk) 20:42, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Do you think we should mention either in the Gaia article or JESC 2013 or JESC main article that The Start is the first Junior eurovision winning song containing only english lyrics (or perhaps first containing any english lyrics).--BabbaQ (talk) 20:52, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Do you think we should mention either in the Gaia article or JESC 2013 or JESC main article that The Start is the first Junior eurovision winning song containing only english lyrics (or perhaps first containing any english lyrics).--BabbaQ (talk) 20:52, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

I;d say JESC2013 article, as that has definitely been expanded x5. Saves time that way. Wes Mᴥuse 20:54, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

December 2013

ProjectEurovision Monthly Newsletter - December 2013

Project Eurovision monthly						Issue XXXVII
Click icon to view full edition		Headlines Eurovision Song Contest 2013 achieves Good article status. Malta win the Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2013.
At the time of publication the project statistics were as follows
Total Number of Members	Active Members	Inactive Members	Total Number of Articles	Number of Good Articles	Number of FA/FLs	Require Improvements
62	42	20	5086	21	6	1352
6	9	3	99	5	2	24
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This newsletter was delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 11:32, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Lynne Kieran

Always sad when a ESC participant dies. Today Lynne Kieran has died she represented Austria with The Rounder Girls in 2000 when the contest was hosted in my country Sweden.--BabbaQ (talk) 18:26, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Oh dear no. Have you added this to the newsdesk so that we can mention it in January's publication? Wes Mᴥuse 18:35, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Yeah sad but true. Anyway I have felt bad for a while for not giving the newsletter more attention and the attention it should get so I will do that from now on. :) Cheers.--BabbaQ (talk) 18:44, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Türkvizyon 2013

Moved to Talk:Türkvizyon Song Contest 2013 § Sources reliability

 – Wes Mᴥuse 12:54, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I'm not sure that we can consider the official website of the contest reliable, there have been multiple cases of wrong information found there. First, they said that the Kazakhstani entry is Qalayşa by Luina, which was not true. Second, they said Uzbekistan would be represented by Shahzoda, which was not true again. The third and I think most important thing is that in the site it says that in some countries like Turkmenistan the contest would be broadcasted by "The Channel TBC", which clearly shows that they have copied this info from Wikipedia and have no idea what TBC means.

Considering all this, I'm not at all convinced that Macedonian and Northern Cypriot entries are Düşlerde Yaşamak and Ayrıntılar. First, the song Düşlerde Yaşamak is an old song, released in 2010 by the band Bal ve Kan, and I have enough reason to think that the only reason it ended up in the official site is the fact that it was on the Eurovoix page telling who the Macedonian participant is. That page clearly says that the Macedonian entry is called Ağlama Benim İçin, but the video of Luina said that it was one of the national finalists as well, that didn't prevent it from being shown as the Kazakh participant.

I don't think the Northern Cypriot song is Ayrıntılar either, because there is a video on YouTube that shows Grup Gommalar singing a song called Ayrıntılar in the Northern Cypriot national final but the song they sing there is an old song too, it's a 2010 song of Bülent Ortaçgil. I believe they saw that video and simply assumed that that song was the Northern Cypriot entry. amateur (talk) 02:15, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

You do realise that you're making a very serious allegation about an official website by stating they are copying text from Wikipedia, right? We have to assume good faith here in that the editors of the official page are correct, even if we may think they are wrong or "copying". The fact of the matter is we have nothing else to double-check things. There's only the official website and Eurovoix (which is only operated by one editor, thus making it borderline fan-blog). As for the song titles you mentioned, there is nothing to say that two different songs with the same title have been written. For example, the song "What if" has been a title for 3 different artists, and neither of them are the same lyrical-worded songs - What If (Kate Winslet song); What If (Dina Garipova song); What If (Friends song); What If (Jason Derulo song).

If we remove all links from Turkvizyon.com, then the article would have to be nominated for deletion, as it is relying solely on one source website only. One needs to think of that aspect here too. If Turkvizyon and Eurovoix sources are conflicting, then neither of them should be used, until other sources can be found to verify what Turkvizyon or Eurovoix are reporting. And then we'd end up with an article that has no sources, and thus would be deleted immediately on the grounds of being a hoax article. Wes Mᴥuse 02:51, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Also with the website saying "Channel TBC", you may be overlooking into how this may be referring to. We're dealing with written text that has no vocal sound/expression. There could well be a pause between the words Channel and TBC, which would change the definition from it meaning a channel called TBC, to a channel that is to be announce (Channel TBC). Wes Mᴥuse 02:57, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

No, they call the brodcaster "TBC televizyonu" in Turkish, which means "TBC TV", and there is no other way to translate it. Another fact: They are still referring İlkay Yusuf as "Ikay Yusuf", despite the very fact that İlkay is a common Turkish name. The only reason they call him Ikay must be Eurovoix's typo on their news about the Macedonian entry. In their YouTube account they posted a video of the Kazakh entry that I made, and there is nothing suggesting they know anything more than we do about the contest. That website is updated by searching the web for information, which is the same thing as we do. amateur (talk) 03:30, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Wait, apparently I'm wrong on this one and he is indeed called Ikay. In that case, the info we have here is wrong and should be corrected. amateur (talk) 03:33, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

This is why it is difficult to determine what if factual. There are only two websites dealing with Turkvision. Because nobody else has published anything, we have nothing else to verify who is right or wrong from the two websites. We cannot assume the Turkvision website are copying text from Wikipedia, without 100% solid evidence. What you are suggesting is a serious allegation to make, you do realise that, right? Wes Mᴥuse 11:21, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Holiday Cheer

		Holiday Cheer
		BabbaQ talkback is wishing you Season's Greetings! This message celebrates the holiday season, promotes WikiLove, and hopefully makes your day a little better. Spread the seasonal good cheer by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and aHappy New Year, whether it be someone with whom you had disagreements in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Share the good feelings. - BabbaQ

Thank you, BabbaQ. And a very Merry Christmas to you too. Wes Mᴥuse 14:07, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Farid Hasanov

I have created a stub about the Turkvision winner Farid Hasanov. Please improve if possible.--BabbaQ (talk) 13:58, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Christmas

By the way, how will you celebrate christmas? I celebrate it tomorrow with all my relatives and family at my cousins home in Väckelsång. :)--BabbaQ (talk) 20:29, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Mediran (t • c) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Mediran (t • c) 08:30, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

• • Thank you Mediran, hope you also had a lovely Christmas. Wes Mᴥuse 12:45, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Wes!

Hi Wes!

Thanks for accepting me for the job, it'll be a pleasure to work with you (and CT Cooper too I think?). Just 1 question, where do I put the news for the next month, as I have no idea. Thanks so much, and happy Christmas & New Year. Lucky102 (talk) 12:32, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

You're very welcome, Lucky. I shall post on your talk page shortly about how the newsletter is done. Cooper helps out every so often, but generally leaves it up to me (and now you) to put things together. Wes Mᴥuse 13:16, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorry Wes, this may sound idiotic, but how do I add the news to it? I assume it's more than a simple edit, so nobody else sees it, but I don't know. Regards Lucky102 (talk) 14:17, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

I tried the newsletter for Türkvizyon, did I do it right? Lucky102 (talk) 21:21, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

That's right, well done. I'm thinking of something to write on the welcoming editorial section. Feel free to add something in your own words, if you wish. Wes Mᴥuse 21:49, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Sirusho

I have raised a few issues about the Sirusho on the articles talk page. I think the article could need a complete or partly rewrite since it is kind of a mess. Especially since it is very likely that she will be revealed as Armenias representative at ESC 2014. Take a look. Regards,--BabbaQ (talk) 23:54, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Well, someone had already started doing edits to improve the article. We will have to see how it ends up. --BabbaQ (talk) 00:01, 29 December 2013 (UTC)