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April 29

Parentheses after a colon

I have a question: (are parentheses directly after a colon linguistically acceptable?). Having a disagreement with a WMF dev. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 07:16, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Alexis Jazz: I very recently wrote something with a closing parenthesis immediately following a colon, so obviously I'd say, yes, under circumstances they are orthographically stylistically acceptable. I wonder how your interlocutor would, in this specific case, have addressed the punctuation of the parenthesis. I cannot think of an acceptable circumstance for an opening parenthesis immediately following a colon; I think I'd always insert a blank space. --Lambiam 08:10, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I can't think of any circumstances where that would be acceptable, but context is everything. Can you give an example of how you think that might be appropriate?. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:15, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lambiam, Shantavira, I can't give an example because I couldn't think of an acceptable circumstance either. I tried to word my question in a neutral way in case I was wrong. The disagreement is on Phabricator: "/* Section title */ (gadget name)" should not show a colon after the section link. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 08:26, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(An aside) would normally follow something else. Going first doesn't make sense. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:39, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Rolling Stones beg to differ. --Wrongfilter (talk) 10:20, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Plenty of other songs have used that construction. Where works of art are concerned, good grammar ain't necessarily so. :) --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:45, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Clarityfiend, the (gadget name) is added automatically by various gadgets and scripts like RedWarn, Shortdesc helper, XFDcloser, AFCH and also my scripts. But sometimes there just is no edit summary, but the gadget credit is still needed for the detection of possibly malfunctioning gadgets and scripts. It's possible to add a useless generic edit summary ("changing page", always true) but.. really? Lambiam, it looks weird to me, but maybe it's just me. Wrongfilter, and Britney. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:03, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You could tell yourself that "editing something" is tacitly implied, and it's a form of ellipsis. Card Zero (talk) 17:26, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I find nothing objectionable in (→Punctuation: (parenthesis)). --Lambiam 11:32, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It happens regularly in scripts. (The theatrical kind.) To take a random example from The Goon Show, a line begins Secretary: (Milligan, deranged) to indicate that the line is spoken by Milligan in the character of a deranged secretary. But this is a case where (as you said in the linked thread) "the text in parenthesis is followed by what the colon is supposed to emphasize". Suggestion: the gadgets could use square brackets instead of round ones. Square brackets are used for alterations and substitutions, so they would mean "this text not written by the original author", or even "edit made by gadget", and you could be happy for them to follow a colon. Card Zero (talk) 13:35, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See [1] --Amble (talk) 17:03, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tocharian C

Apparently someone in 1930 found some documents and identified them as containing words from a Tocharian substrate. Then someone in 2018 made similar claims. Then in 2019 a group of scholars discredited the 2018 claim.

What I'm confused by is whether the 1930 claim is still open or not. Were the documents referred to in 1930 and 2018/2019 the same, and therefore both discredited, or are the former still plausibly Tocharian in origin but the latter discredited? 70.172.194.25 (talk) 07:18, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

These are two different hypotheses referring to two different corpora. As mentioned in Dragoni et el. (2020) in footnote 3 on p. 336, Schmidt did not mention in his 2018 claims the earlier proposal by Burrows from the 1930s at all.

Mallory (2015) discusses the proposal by Burrows at some length on p. 6. and says: "This theory has been widely accepted", although he also cites several critical voices. But clearly, Burrows's proposal has gained more acceptance than Schmidt's. –Austronesier (talk) 11:25, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

April 30

Ottoman place names

Is there a place online where I could find the names of cities of the Ottoman Empire, as many as possible, in the Ottoman Turkish script? To be clear I mean the Arab-looking script. I'm not searching for a map but for a site from where I can copy the names. Thank you. --79.18.53.172 (talk) 11:43, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t know of a collected list, but you can find the Ottoman Turkish spelling for many place names on Wiktionary. For example, wikt:Ankara gives آنقره, wikt:Izmir gives ازمیر, and wikt:Istanbul gives استانبول. —Amble (talk) 17:19, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Finding the Ottoman Turkish name of the most famous places is usually not a problem, with some exceptions. Some even in their Wikipedia articles. --79.18.53.172 (talk) 18:54, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You can find a list on Wiktionary in Category:ota:Cities in Turkey. However, it is far from complete, containing neither Template:Lang-ota (Kostantiniyye) nor Template:Lang-ota (İstanbul). --Lambiam 19:22, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There are maps here with the names of cities and provinces of the Ottoman Empire in the Arabic script. Omidinist (talk) 01:42, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Word for "tea"

Is there any language whose word tea "tea" cannot be traced back to Chinese? The Polish word herbata and Lithuanian word arbata resemble neither the word te nor the word cha, but they are actually herba thea and can be eventually traced to te. Are there any languages that created neologism when tea was first brought to the country where the language is spoken? --40bus (talk) 17:40, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like Burmish languages generally have created compound neologisms. From a quick search on Wiktionary. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 17:49, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

According to Wiktionary, the part of the Burmese term that bears the meaning of "tea" ultimately derives from that same source.

So, the list at Etymology of tea#Others as well as this map are of questionable credibility, since they both cite Burmese as not falling into either major category.

In fact the other languages marked thus in the map include Polish and Lithuanian, as well as more than 30 others, which may have to be checked. One of them that immediately strikes me is Hawaiian: the relation of kī to the English term is pretty obvious considering the characteristic allophony of /t/ and /k/ in that language.

Anyways, Wiktionary provides a list of translations. --Theurgist (talk) 19:01, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Or maybe the logic is that Burmese can be considered a third branch, separate from the two main ones, even though they all stem from the same source. But even then Burmese doesn't satisfy the OP's condition. --Theurgist (talk) 20:04, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

According to the Online Cree Dictionary, "tea" in Standard Cree is "maskihkiwapoy", meaning "medicine water". (In Northern French Cree it's "lite", which might be pronounced like "le thé".) I wouldn’t be surprised if other North American languages have their own names for tea. 24.76.103.169 (talk) 23:14, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the Wiktionary list of translations gives several of them. The Romani word drab stands out on that list, too, and similarly means "medicine". I wonder what Banjara people call it? Card Zero (talk) 01:28, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

But is that word in Cree actually used for tea made from Camellia sinensis (the tea plant) or something else? Even now, the word "tea" is commonly used for things that aren't tea at all, but herbal infusions, such as peppermint tea, chamomile tea, ginger tea, rooibos tea, and so on. Wolfart (1973) lists it as from -āpoy- 'broth, soup', and tea as maskihkīwāpoy: 'tea (literally: herb-broth)'.^[1] Mathglot (talk) • contribs) 01:24, 1 May 2022 (UTC)-*[reply]
Without wishing to make any particular argument, I'm going to throw the word Tisane into the mix. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.208.88.97 (talk) 20:04, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Seems to be from an Ancient Greek word related to barley. [2] 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 20:56, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"commonly used for things that aren't tea at all, but herbal infusions, such as peppermint tea, chamomile tea, ginger tea, rooibos tea" Seems like what you have here is a split in meaning 1) "tea" meaning the plant Camellia sinensis and 2) "tea" meaning herbal infusions, including (but not limited to) those of C. sinensis. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:45, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

refs

^ Wolfart, H. Christoph. "Plains Cree: A Grammatical Study." Transactions of the American Philosophical Society, vol. 63, no. 5, 1973, p. 69, § 6.412 https://doi.org/10.2307/1006246.

Natural Bushcraft Austria

Alonewolverine1984 (then a video newbie, but now a youtube celebrity under the name survivallilly) wrote in 2011[3]:

Hi! I am Lilly from Natural Bushcraft Austria aka alonewolverine1984. I am the one who uploaded this video. I was really flattered that so many bushcrafters watched this video and subscribed to my channel. :4: that's awesome

Is Natural Bushcraft Austria some kind of organization? What would be the likely German form of this name? The forum post I linked is the main search hit for the phrase in English. I didn't have any luck with my own attempted German translations, but I'm not good at that. Thanks. 2601:648:8202:350:0:0:0:4671 (talk) 21:37, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A plausible translation is Naturbushcraft Österreichs. The webpages I found in German about bushcraft in Austria (like this one) did not mention any organizational structure. --Lambiam 07:30, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A clue might be in his username - "alonewolverine" doesn't sound a very clubbable sort of chap. Alansplodge (talk) 08:51, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's unfortunately (but amusingly) open to interpretation. Bazza (talk) 10:28, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lilly appears to be a woman, but I guess she still could be a weekend clubber... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:24, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks all. Lilly may have used the name alonewolverine1984 because she is into solo camping. She has said in her videos that she is quite social, likes to hang out with friends, etc. Her vids are fun to watch, not too much survivalism lunacy, more about a back to nature camping and self-sufficiency experience. The url from that forum thread doesn't work any more, but the video it refers to is still on her channel, the oldest one there, so you have to sort by new and then scroll all the way to the end to reach it. 2601:648:8202:350:0:0:0:4671 (talk) 15:14, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

She wouldn't have been the first German speaker to think English wolverine means "she-wolf", like here: Ich hab früher immer gedacht, „Wolverine“ heißt „die Wölfin“ – analog zu „Heroine“ für „Heldin“.^[4] --Lambiam 16:02, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

May 5

Uzbek translation for Jeopardy! (franchise)

Dear Sirs, How can 'antiqa mantiq' be translated into English? Leroy Patterson IV (talk) 01:23, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Mantiq" might be a borrowing from an Arabic word meaning "eloquence, logic"... AnonMoos (talk) 03:14, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

~~Is the translation given in Jeopardy! (franchise), "Say the Word", not correct?~~ (I see you added that translation recently.) --Amble (talk) 06:15, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We have wikt::mantiq in English Wiktionary. We don't have wikt:antiqa, but it is in Uzbek Wiktionary at wikt:uz:antiqa. It seems to mean "antique", but also "unusual", "amazing", etc. --Amble (talk) 06:31, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) Antiqa is an adjective that can mean "ancient", but also "old-fashioned", "traditional". However, based on some uses found on the Web it can apparently also mean "strange", "weird", "astonishing". In the title of this book, Antiqa Mantiq probably means "good old-fashioned logic" (logical reasoning), but maybe "astonishing logic". The collocation may be existing Uzbek idiom that was appropriated for the quiz show title. The term mantiq can also just mean "speech", "utterance", which fits better in the context of Jeopardy!. --Lambiam 06:50, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that we must interpret the particular meaning that is used in this context, and convert it into an equivalent phrase or 'title-line' in English. I have found three active Uzbek users, who I will now ping:

@Kamron99:

@Nataev:

@Nataeva:

As an aside, a number of users in Category:User uz-N seemed to be spam or troll accounts with the same user page and no other edits.

Leroy Patterson IV (talk) 12:39, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! "Antiqa mantiq" literally means creative or unusual logic. The thing is in Uzbek antiqa mantiq sounds great, kind of like a tongue twister. I don't know if there's an equivalent phrase in English. I hope it helps! Nataev ^talk 12:46, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Great Scott, it worked! Now you need an English equivalent? I don't know what phrase could possibly fit, this will take some brainstorming, lateral thought, or even thinking outside the box. Card Zero (talk) 13:19, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So it seems that the idiom derives its popularity from the rhymelike antiq*antiq, and that the reuse for Jeopardy! is essentially a pun using the polysemy of mantiq (and perhaps also of antiqa). If this was a children's book, you'd need a translation that also reuses an ambiguous rhymelike (possibly alliterative) idiom and can vaguely mean "amazing utterance", something like Word of Wisdom. I see little value in providing a single literal translation such as "Creative Logic". This makes sense for the title of the book with logic puzzles for children linked to above, but not so much for the quiz show. --Lambiam 15:53, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Quick Quip Quiz"... Maybe too quirky... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 18:08, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As Nataev said that "Antiqa mantiq" is like a tongue twist and means excellent logic (clue). Here the main emphasis is on rhymelike words and below are some of my versions:

Chop logic (maybe)

Adroit point

True clue Kamron99 (talk) 20:38, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Quizzy (= Antiqa) Quip (≈ Mantiq). --Lambiam 21:16, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Agree Leroy Patterson IV (talk) 21:45, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nit-pick question about formatting and punctuation

There are times when I need to format a word or a phrase ... for example, with bold or underline or italics (being the main three ways). If that word or phrase has an "adjacent" punctuation or other symbol ... does that "extra" symbol ALSO get bolded, underlined, and/or italicized ... or is that "extra symbol" simply left alone? Let me think of a hypothetical example. I have a Word document ... it has the phrase "List of committee members present:" ... and then, in a table or a chart or a bullet list, I list all of the names of the present committee members. If I need to format the phrase "List of committee members present" ... with either a bold, or underline, or italic font ... does the "extra" / adjacent punctuation mark of the colon (:) ALSO get bolded, underlined, and/or italicized? Or is that "extra symbol" (the colon) just listed in normal font, with no special format? This is just an example. Often, I find this "problem" happening when the "extra" material is parenthetical. For example: My Word document says ... "List of ingredients: (sold separately)" ... as a header for a list. If I need to format the "List of ingredients" with a bold, underline, or italics ... what do I do with the colon ... and what do I do with the entire parenthetical phrase, along with its parentheses symbols? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:33, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Traditionally, (most types of) punctuation have been typeset in the style of the preceding word—if a boldfaced or italic word was followed by a period, comma, colon, exclamation point, or similar, the period, comma, colon, exclamation point, or similar, was boldfaced or italicized as well. (The main exceptions were closing parentheses and em dashes.) This avoided the odd spacing, or lack of it, that would result if an italic word was followed, for instance, by a roman question mark. We explicitly don't do that on Wikipedia, though, and the convention seems to have fallen into desuetude elsewhere as well. I think you're probably OK if you use normal font for punctuation unless the punctuation is within an italicized or boldfaced passage. Deor (talk) 17:57, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. What would you do with my "ingredients sold separately" example? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:01, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, since you're asking what I would do, I'd put the colon after, rather than before, the parenthetical "sold separately" and boldface, italicize, or underscore the entire heading, including the parenthesis. There are other ways of dealing with it, of course, but headings are usually styled the same way throughout. (See the many tables in WP with headings like, for instance, "Distance (km)" rather than "Distance (km)".) Deor (talk) 18:20, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You don't need the colons at all. In your examples "List of committee members present:" and "List of ingredients: (sold separately)", delete the colons. What's more, you don't need the words "list of" either. Your headings should simply read "Committee members present" and "Ingredients (sold separately)". --Viennese Waltz 19:11, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Parent's co-parent, co-parent's offspring

The name for parent's spouse is step-parent ~~(or parent-in-law)~~. Without matrimony, is there a special name (whether in English or in any other language), also for parent's co-parent (i.e. for half-sibling's parent)?
The name for spouse's offspring is step-offspring. Without matrimony, is there a special name (whether in English or in any other language), also for co-parent's offspring (i.e. for offspring's half-sibling)?

I suspect the answer is negative, but I just want to see if I will be surprised. HOTmag (talk) 17:33, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Would that be your brother from another mother? --Jayron 32 18:05, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect, that my brother from another mother, is not my parent's co-parent, nor my co-parent's offspring, but rather is my step-brother. HOTmag (talk) 18:33, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If they are your step-brother, they share only a matrimonial relationship; they have no genetic connection to you. They were born to two people whom you have no close genetic relationship; but one of their parents married one of your parents. If you share one parent, then you are half-brothers. Also, explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better but the frog dies in the process. --Jayron 32 18:49, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Parenthood does not necessarily involve matrimony. Nor does brotherhood. Nor does step-brotherhood. So I can't understand your first sentence. Anyway, my original question was not about step-brother, so it couldn't be about brother from another mother. HOTmag (talk) 19:24, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

When a person makes a joke, it is not meant to be taken as a serious answer to a question, so please, stop. --Jayron 32 10:45, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but I didn't notice any joke in your first sentence I was referring to. HOTmag (talk) 12:44, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

HOTmag --- in ordinary modern English, "parent-in-law" and "step-parent" have different meanings. A parent-in-law is the parent of one's spouse (e.g. one's wife's mother etc), while a "step-parent" is one's parent's spouse who is not one's parent (e.g. one's father's second wife etc). Assuming that matrimony is involved, the parent of one's half-sibling would be a step-parent... AnonMoos (talk) 18:15, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Matrimony is not necessarily involved (I've just added that to my original question thanks to your comment). As for ordinary English, ok, so I delete (by striking out) the "parent-in-law" because its desired meaning is not in ordinary English. HOTmag (talk) 18:33, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is no special name for people with whom you share no connections through some combination of matrimony or genetics. The unmarried mate of my parent is nothing to me, by relationship; if they have a child together, that child is my half-sibling (in older days my bastard-half-sibling if I were being rude, or my "natural"-half-sibling if I were being more diplomatic). The unmarried mate of my parent does not get a new name because they had a child with my parent. They are not related to me either because I share genetics with them (I don't) nor are they married to anyone in my family (they are not). Thus, there is no term. --Jayron 32 18:45, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

On a related note, is there a term for a half-sibling's half-sibling? 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 18:46, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You mean, to me? My half brother's other half brother could either be any one of three things 1) my full brother 2) my half brother or 3) nothing at all. It depends on what the parentage of the people is. For example, if I my parents have two sons, me and another, then one dies and the other remarries and has a third son, that third son is my half brother. His other half brother is my full brother. That's situation 1. Let's say that my parents had me only, but one died. Then my surviving parent married again, and then had another son. Then one died again. Then let's say that that parent remarried again and had a third son. If I asked who that my half-brother's half-brother is in that case, he's also my half brother. That's scenario 2. Now, let's say that my parents had me, and got divorced. Then they each remarried and had another son each. Now, I have two half brothers, but each half brother's other half brother is of no relation to each other. That's scenario 3. --Jayron 32 18:56, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, sorta scenario three, I have a half-sibling's half-sibling, that I meet sometimes at family reunions. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 19:01, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I as well have a similarly convoluted family; given that 1) it is very large, with several multiple marriage via death and divorce and 2) my mom had two brothers that married a mother and daughter. Growing up in that situation, I got really good at figuring out familial relationships. --Jayron 32 19:04, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Wakuran: My half-sibling's half-sibling, if not being myself nor my sibling, is necessarily my step-sibling (but not necessarily vice versa) - assuming that step-brotherhood does not need matrimony of anybody (but maybe I'm wrong and it does). Just as my sibling's sibling, if not being myself, is necessarily my sibling (but not necessarily vice versa). HOTmag (talk) 19:32, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Step-siblings DO need matrimony; look, picture your dad is fucking this woman, but he's not married to her. He's just fucking her. If she already had a son, who is that son to you? Nothing, she's just the son of the chick your dad is fucking. If your dad MARRIES that chick, that son becomes your step brother. But until there's a marriage involved, there's no step-anything. Fucking people doesn't create family words. Marriage and birth do. --Jayron 32 10:51, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As for step-siblings, I had already added a reservation: "assuming that step-brotherhood does not need matrimony of anybody". You claim this assumptoin is wrong. Ok, but still my full claim was correct, because of the reservation I'd added (including the parentheses following it). HOTmag (talk) 12:44, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Jayron32: You claim that "There is no special name for people with whom you share no connections through some combination of matrimony or genetics". Not necessarily. My question has already mentioned the option of co-parents. My co-parent shares no genetics with me, nor have they ever been married to me, yet they do have a special name: They are my "co-parent". So I've asked, what about my parent's co-parent, and what about my co-parent's offspring? As I have already indicated, I suspect there is no special name for this kind of "relative", but I still want to see if I will be surprised, not necesarily for the English language. HOTmag (talk) 19:11, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Look, this is growing wearisome. No one has ever used a special word for the concept you're trying to find. If you want to invent your own word, why don't you just do it. --Jayron 32 10:47, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not interested in inventions - but rather in standard usage. As I have already indicated, I'm not asking about English alone - but rather about any language - even one only (it doesn't matter which one). I guess there isn't a term for this kind of relationship - in any language, but I still want to see if I will be surprised. HOTmag (talk) 12:44, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My two sons are genetically half-brothers (different fathers). The elder one has a half-brother from his birth father's second marriage, and that half-brother has a half-brother from his birth mother's first marriage. My son has never met any of these people (he never even saw his birth father after the age of 7 months, and now he's dead), so the question of how to label them has never arisen. I suspect that if ever the need arose, it'd be "This is Bob. We're sort of related, but it's too hard to explain". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:22, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@JackofOz: English has a lot of terms for many kinds of relationships between people who have never met, e.g. siblings (who may have never seen each other), and the like. Indeed, my brother is my parent's son - and I did meet my parent who did meet their son who is my brother, but the same is true for the relationships I'm asking about - i.e. about parent's co-parent and about co-parent's offspring: Indeed I have never met my parent's co-parent - but I did meet my parent - who did meet their co-parent, and indeed I have never met my co-parent's offspring - but I did meet my co-parent - who did meet their offspring. HOTmag (talk) 07:01, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

May 6

Describing these people

1- A policeman is murdered by a bandit, and his daughter marries the bandit.

2- The character played by Samuel L Jackson in Django Unchained. A Black man supporting White slave masters.

3- Japanese Army committed genocide in China during Second World War. After a few weeks, a Chinese family invited the Japanese soldiers for dinner and told other angry Chinese "We believe in peace, we don't want hate, let us forget the past".

I am not looking for words like ungrateful, unfaithful, or renegade. How could they be described in a sentence?

[1] Wolfart, H. Christoph. "Plains Cree: A Grammatical Study." Transactions of the American Philosophical Society, vol. 63, no. 5, 1973, p. 69, § 6.412 https://doi.org/10.2307/1006246.

[1]