Talk:Raspberry

Blue raspberry

I'm not sure about blue raspberry being R. leucodermis. If blue raspberries were cultivated shortly after the American Revolution, they were probably R. occidentalis; R. leucodermis grows further west than R. occidentalis (in spite of the species name), and wouldn't have been available for cultivation in the late 18th century. R. occidentalis remains the more widely cultivated of the two species today (with major production centers in areas where R. leucodermis is native). Both species share common names "black raspberry" and "blackcap (raspberry)". Presumably "blue raspberry" may also refer to both species. Plantdrew (talk) 18:09, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that is a problem. A web search yields several statements that the blue raspberry is R. leucodermis, but nothing that would qualify as a citable source. Google scholar yields nothing. I'm equally unconvinced that these raspberries were cultivated shortly after the American Revolution, and haven't been able to track down with "Columbia" or "Columbian" really means that looks like a cultivar name. The citation that I removed because it was an advertisement for jam, used "Columbian" as if it were a cultivar name. I thought about deleting the material entirely, but suspect that it would be re-added because it seems clear that in Prince Edward County it is considered notable.

I wonder if the "blue" actually refers to the stem, which is very notably glaucous on R. leucodermis, as the Latin name reflects. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 19:33, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

I appreciate the effort you guys are putting into this clarification and I suppose that I should have some information to share on this topic but I know nothing about it and I feel a little ashamed. Blue Rasberry (talk) 20:52, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Don't worry about that. This sort of question is unfortunately common with the plants that people eat, although the lack of information about this one is greater than usual. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 22:41, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

I've spent a little bit of time looking for plants for sale, and trying to associate species with cultivars of black/purple raspberry, and I'm more firmly convinced that R. leucodermis is rarely cultivated at best (not that R. occidentalis is very commonly cultivated either, but of the two species it seems the far more likely candidate (searches for the actual term in question, "blue raspberry" aren't very helpful as this name is infrequently used). It seems odd to me that United Empire Loyalists would take name something Columbia, which suggests to me that the cultivar might predate the Revolution (though this is entirely speculation on my part). Plantdrew (talk) 22:01, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

There are apparently pick-your-own blue raspberry farms in Prince Edward County, but the season is past. If only wikipedia could offer to pay a botanist to travel up there and identify what is growing (how many raspberries does one need to eat to be sure of what species they are?) I tried online to find a nursery offering plants or anyone offering frozen fruit for sale, but haven't found either. R. occidentalis turns up here in frozen fruit mixtures (with marionberries, blackberries, and red raspberries), presumably cultivated somewhere in western North America. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 22:41, 29 September 2013 (UTC).

I will be in Prince Edward County next summer during the height of the blue raspberry season. When I get some pictures, I will post on Wikipedia, and the botanists, can figure out how we ended up with true blue raspberries. I just took them for granted when I was a kid, little did I know that they were a very localized and rare fruit. The Columbia cultivar may be in reference to a New York County. There is a United Empire Loyalist Museum and Research Library in Adolphustown (near Prince Edward Country), that may shed some light on the Empire loyalists agricultural heritage.

Photos would be helpful. The genus Rubus, however, is extremely difficult to identify to the species level, and if the cultivar is somewhat different from its wild ancestors, that difficulty would be even greater. Close-up photos of as many parts of the plant as possible are needed, and it can sometimes be helpful to look at the leaves on both the fruiting canes and the new canes (that will fruit the following year), because the leaves can be different in the two years. It might not be possible to determine without DNA sequencing which species this cultivar belongs to, and it might be derived from a hybrid. Perhaps, if enough citations can be found that give solid statements about it (e.g., no advertising or blogs), these blue raspberries might warrant their own page, possibly including citations (if they exist) that say what species it is or that the species affinity is unknown. About the cultivar name, yes indeed, county names seem to show up often in fruit-cultivar names and might not represent the original source, as has happened, for example with the Tompkins King (apple). Sminthopsis84 (talk) 12:59, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

The New York suggestion is amazing! There is a wonderful series of books about the fruits of New York: The Apples of New York, The Plums of New York, ... The relevant one here is The Small Fruits of New York where on page 96 (BHL's page index says page 98) the 'Columbian' cultivar of hybrid raspberry is described in great detail, and there's a photo on the following page. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 13:36, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

From your source the Hybrid was created in the 1890's, way pass the time for the Empire Loyalists coming to Canada. The question is, are the blue raspberries growing in the county, actually Columbian, or did the county growers get their history mixed up. I realize the berry has to be a purple hybrid (unless it is a rare mutation), however the berry may fall on that borderline where the play of light, can not make you decide if the berry is purplish-blue or blueish-purple. Even blueberries are blue on the vine, but purple on the plate (as they get oxidized). At least I now have a colour sketch for the what the plants and berries should look like for the Columbian Cultivar (thanks to Sminthopsis84 for the reference). It will be an interesting and yummy research project next summer, when I vacation in the county.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.68.44.18 (talk) 13:59, October 6, 2013‎ (UTC)

Pruning raspberry plants

We have a few raspberry plants in our flower bed (former owners planted). They have wonderful fruit (when not eaten by the Japan beetles) How and when can they be pruned? There are 6 ft long branches that don't do anything but catch your leg when driving by in the lawn mower! Nedra 108.66.166.17 (talk) 14:15, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Problem with iw links...

Hello all, I think we have a problem with interwiki links. This article is about the garden plant, and the plant people buy in shops. It should therefore link to de:Himbeere, but that page links to Rubus idaeus (the "European raspberry"?).

I am not a biologist, but I think we should really make a differeence between a "raspberry", and one of the several 'varieties' there are. My idea:

• An article about "raspberry" (this one) - the general term.This article should link the "most common" species/cultivar (if it doesn't already).
• Several articles about raspberry species ("R. iudaus is a kind of raspberry (with link) that mainly occurs in Europe (etc)"

What do other people think? --Eptalon (talk) 18:43, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

That seems a bit over the top. Instead, put it all in this one article and improve the links being made. Varybit (talk) 17:06, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Jam

The only time jam is mentioned is in relation to one specific variety. I have made jam from at least two other varieties and I am sure that any Raspberry could make good jam. Is it OK to amend this article accordingly? Varybit (talk) 17:05, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Please don't make edits based on your own experience, as this is WP:OR. If there is a WP:SECONDARY source discussing jams from different berry varieties, then that would be usable, although "jam-making" falls into the "not" category for Wikipedia, WP:NOTRECIPE. --Zefr (talk) 17:07, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Varybit, Be bold :) but you may want to find sources that support what you want to write. Here are a couple that might help.

• Source 1
• Source 2
• Other sources at Google books.

Hopefully this is helpful to you.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 17:20, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

I don't understand. Why is it OK to keep a completely unsourced comment that Black Raspberries can be made into jam, but not OK to change that comment to include all raspberries. Is anyone contending that amending the comment on jam to include all raspberries would make the page more accurate? I am trying to wrap my head around all the confusing (and often conflicting) rules being thrown around on Wikipedia. Why is it so hard just to improve articles and help readers to get accurate information? Varybit (talk) 12:12, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Jazzberry

The term "jazzberry jam" shows up as well, searching for raspberry jam. Maybe they are the same thing? Jazzberry depending on where and what the term is for seems to be Raspberries mixed with yogurt. Gives it a bit more of a sweet flavor. Recent limited cereal Kellogg's "Crayola Jazzberry cereal" that uses the term, and then there is that cartoon that I already sick of hearing about Razzberry Jazzberry Jam. So it is a thing. I think it should be added the Raspberry article and a new redirect be used for "Jazzberry" because it's a word that is getting decent hits at this point and it should be address. Devilmanozzy (talk) 21:50, 22 May 2021 (UTC)